How many plants must you select from to not be a "hack"

[Grat3fulh3ad]

ah okok.. ic ic.. but you may have seen my plants, I keep a healthy garden. So its not deficiencies.. guaranteed, pathogens means some kind of disruptive disease or bacteria of sorts right? I doubt that strongly..

ok m8 thanks, I think we are looking at mutations here then.

There is no way 4 different strains all mutated the same way, at the same time, unless you are growing in an abandoned nuclear plant or cold war military biology lab. You are 99.99% most likely not looking at mutation. It is most likely disease, if you can rule out nutrient issues.

Genetic mutations which survive past a few cell divisions are very uncommon.

 

[C21H30O2]

I always thought that if I ever got into the breeding game and actually produced and sold my genetics I would set up a site and allow the users/customers to grow test strains with the only requirenment for the seeds being shipping/handling and a cut of their keeper pheno or phenos that I have requested for breeding purposes. methods of shipping plant genetics would have to be ironed out but it could be run in contest fashion so the phenos that i decided to use would get free samples of my genetics or elite cuts that arent in seed form. This way my customers would help me breed get great test seeds and then buy my more worked strains. does that make sense, I am super high on my organic blue dream.

 

[arcticsun]

What kind of contagious disease is this?

Pretty sure its adapting to the extreme light at an early age..

 

[gingerale]

#1 i want to thank everyone here especially gratefuldead and doc for sharing their knowledge. i have a pretty damn good bullshit detector and it tells me these two know whats up.

heres my take on it. both nature and man select for different characteristics. left untended, a stand of cannabis will quickly adapt its genetics to its environment. we know that natural selection means that those plants most suitably adapted to their environment will be the most likely to pass along their genetics to the next generation.

THC production is costly to the plant because it takes energy to produce this and other cannabinoids. all things being equal, the plant with the higher THC production will most likely grow and/or flower more slowly than the lower THC plant.

the question then becomes, what benefit does THC provide to the plant, how badly is this benefit needed in its current environment, and thus what percentage of THC would be ideal for the plant to survive under these conditions while still growing and spreading its genes as quickly as possible?

so, to answer the question definitively, we need to know for sure what role THC plays for cannabis... OR, we need to set up an experiment where we grow several isolated chambers full of plants all from the same strain, then expose each chamber to different conditions over several or dozens of generations, then see how the plants respond.

 

[papie]

I did a little research and found this:

Author/Creator: Gamage, Harshi K., Jesson, Linley
Resource type:
Date: 2007
Subject: Plant Biology (0607), Homoblasty, Leaf anatomy, Morphology, Heteroblasty, Sunlight
Record contributed by: The University of Queensland

Description
Heteroblastic plants produce markedly different leaf morphologies between juvenile and adult stages, while homoblastic plants exhibit little or gradual changes. We tested the hypothesis that the leaf morphology of the seedling stage of New Zealand heteroblastic species is advantageous in dealing with low light levels found in forest understorey. We used four independent contrasts of heteroblastic and homoblastic seedlings from the genera Aristotelia, Hoheria, Pseudopanax, and Melicope grown in full-sun (100% sunlight) and shade (5% sunlight) light environments in a glasshouse. The four heteroblastic species had consistently smaller leaves and lower specific leaf area than their paired homoblastic species both in sun and shade. In the shade, there were no consistent differences in leaf anatomy (thickness of leaf blade, cuticle, epidermis, and palisade mesophyll, and stomatal density × stomatal aperture length) or physiology (maximum photosynthetic rate, dark respiration, and light compensation point) between homoblastic and heteroblastic species. However, in the sun, heteroblastic A. fruticosa, P. crassifolius, and M. simplex had appreciably thicker leaf blades as well as higher maximum photosynthetic rates than their homoblastic congeners. These traits suggest heteroblastic seedlings possess leaf traits associated with an advantage in high-light environments. We conclude that the heteroblastic seedling leaf morphology is unlikely to be an adaptation to very low light. Alternative explanations for the functional significance of changing leaf morphology in association with life-stage should be sought.

If one could conclude that Cannabis sativa is heteroblastic, (One might take as example the fact that amount of fingers on a leaf increase in the juvenile state)[1] it does imply that in the case of circumstances that are supranormal, or "better than in nature", the leaf traits might change.

I really need someone else to give me some peerreview on this though.

edit: found some info
[1] http://botanydictionary.org/heteroblastic-development.html

 

[gingerale]

oh and i wanted to ask a question to those more knowledgeable. i have only recently starting growing for real within the past few months, now have a first bagseed strain bout ready for harvest. i got a second bagseed strain i started about a month after that one and its just now gettin into flowering real good.

its interesting once you start seeing so many of these plants around, checking out the different characteristics of each. that second strain i noticed displayed a good number of irregularities. for example one with whorled phyllotaxy, one leaf whose "middle finger" is way smaller/shorter than the others, one plant which topped itself at node 4. the plants are heavily indica in appearance and are fairly uniform in appearance, some variations but not big ones. oh, and the weed it came from was lightly compressed, good lookin mids, probably originating in atlanta.

based on that info what conclusions if any could you draw about this bud? im just curious to learn to better judge strains based on what i see and observe from them, and to more importantly make predictions about what i can maybe expect from strains displaying various traits.

 

[gingerale]

arcticsun: are all those from the same strain? you are not going to have an entire batch of plants suddenly develop the exact same characteristic from a mutation. it doesnt work like that. the characteristic must have already been in the genes and has now been activated by some factor.

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

What kind of contagious disease is this?

Pretty sure its adapting to the extreme light at an early age..

That is a recessive indica trait. It is a response, not an adaptation or disease or mutation. Something plants already do sometimes. I've seen leaflets form there and Buds too under intense flowering lights. I do agree that the intense lighting is probably the stimuli.

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

arcticsun: are all those from the same strain? you are not going to have an entire batch of plants suddenly develop the exact same characteristic from a mutation. it doesnt work like that. the characteristic must have already been in the genes and has now been activated by some factor.

 

[arcticsun]

That is a recessive indica trait

that explains a lot thanks...

 

[Bass Akwards]

... and the horse you rode in on.

... and the horse you rode in on.

Good question and here's My answer Ive been doing this thing for about 27 yrs

So what? That's supposed to impress us?

We've been growing for 35 years, as have thousands of others.

How many crosses have you bred to IBL in the past decade?

If there are any, please name them.

If the answer is Zero, then you haven't really been breeding.

I use 100+ per strain for Selection and have 18 diffrent gardens that I work with to develop New strains...

If you don't start with land-race seeds, you're not really starting with "strains". Bottlenecked, inbred, poly-crosses and "elite clones" of unknown parentage don't qualify as "strains", period. Over 90% of available commercial seed don't qualify either. "Reasonably stable crosses" is about the best you can get. Secondly, it really doesn't matter that much how many you sprout. Thirty to sixty seeds are usually more than sufficient.

Bottom line is If you dont have a lab to test THC/CBD your just spinnin your wheels and making a nice flower without documentation your a hack...yes I have a lab...and we test other folks stuff as well

Arrogant pissant.

Screw you, and the horse you rode in on.

Did D.J. Short have a lab crammed in his closet?

Did Vic High follow through on his IBL scheme, or just make calculated crosses of other commercially available plants?

The Brothers Grimm turned bag seed into a legend in three easy steps.

By your definition, all three were/are just hacks and pollen-chuckers growing "nice flowers".

Until and unless any of the crosses you develop make a name for themselves, you'd be well advised to crawl back under the redwoods lest you make an even bigger fool of yourself.

 

[subrob]

but bass....hes special....since his new business will be charging for the service, its obviously the wise thing to have done...

 

[THE PABLOS]

Ya knowingly spread pollen from one plant to another....now yer a breeder of plants.

Any understandin' of genetics etc....is beneficial....but not neccessary....

Any natural ability at makin' good selections...is beneficial...but not neccessary....

Hacks...."Real" breeders....pollen chuckers....what is in a name anyway?.......unless yer churnin' out beans fer retail.... then I guess yer knowledge of how thingys work and how peeps lable ya...becomes important. On a hobby level....in my private garden...I couldn't give two shits what others call me or my work...yup...I'm secure in meself and me abilities to hack, blend, mix, chuck, recombo, and breed all kinds of different plants....whether they be tomatos....squash...or herb plants.

Needin' testin' labs etc.....to be deemed a breeder is beyond silly....yrs of experience doesn't prove anything.....but if that's what it takes to give ya a sense of confidence and entitlement....if that's what it takes to blow yer skirt up......I must question yer motives.

If a body is happy with the fruits of one's labor......if the proof is n the puddin'(ie...ya find plants to yer likin'....that meet yer goals).....a title means.....zero. There are already way too many rules in the world....how unfun.

 

[DocLeaf]

Maybe it is easier to digest what is NOT hacking

GrowDoc point in case.. he's a medi breeder,, that sought, bought, and grew the strains that he thought would best help medi. users,, with the full permission / acknowledgement / blessings of the original breeders. Growdoc then crossed or inbreed the genetics,, from seeds in each generation,, until reaching his goals as a medi breeder.

A breeder like Growdoc could release hundreds of hybrids per season and sell them,, but since he's a medi breeder it would take him as many seasons again to select the suitable medi grade genetics as parents he's looking.

Point being,, different breeders breed for completely different aims.. depending on what they are doing

Hope this helps

 

[bombadil.360]

Bottom line is If you dont have a lab to test THC/CBD your just spinnin your wheels and making a nice flower without documentation your a hack...yes I have a lab...and we test other folks stuff as well

so all the people who bred cannabis throughout the world before the advent of modern-day labs were hacks according to you...

you are riding on the work done for 1000s of years done by these ´hacks´btw. that is a little fact for you to chew on.

later.

 

[hoosierdaddy]

I'd like to see this lab.
Got any pics?

 

[Bass Akwards]

Well done!

Well done!

I'd like to see this lab.
Got any pics?

Bravo!

Call his bluff.

Can't wait to see it.

... - ... - ... - ... - ...

Don't hold your breath.

 

[englishrick]

i wana see his GC and auto sampler

 

[DocLeaf]

Ask Franco,, he's got all the gear! SIMS researcher!

 

[Tom Hill]

I highly doubt that we are talking about gas chromatography here Rick, not that it would be any more relevant/important than our own opinions concerning quality even if we were. Once we accept 100+ possible modifying factors in terpenoids alone (see SamS, who is intimately acquainted with this science), focusing/narrowing-in that much with GC becomes barely more than moot in considering selection methods. Imo, the science of this old plant is still far too young to be placing such a high importance on anything quite yet. Dollars to donuts, I bet the folks at GW Pharmaceuticals are scratching their heads and feeling right about now somewhat like the Saudi's did after we sold them all those fighter jets but failed to include the operating/repair manuals. Teehee -Tom