Heritability of Intersex Traits

[englishrick]

please will you show some evidence that coroberates the exsistance of hemaphrodites in cannabiss,,

from what i have read ,,,,cannabis is sub-dioecious and the lowstress intersexed expreshion we see is because of inactive sex-chromozones,,

but still i dont undersand the genetic diffeences between monoecious and hemaphrodite specimines

 

[GMT]

Hey Rick, I got caught up in a few offline things that took my time up. I havent even put much time into growing and non into breeding recently. I can understand you not going for the sony, the tech isnt really ready yet.

What you are saying rick would fit into what i was saying nicely, though i think its a little over simplified. In nature hermies are a natural evolutionary inevability although everything ive seen suggests that its only a stage in evolution that eventually should dissappear. If you consider that the job of a male chromosome is to prevent the development of the female phenotype, then a faulty / damaged / depleted male chromosome may well fail to do its job properly, and allow the development of female characteristics, and vice versa.

Gitt, no unfortunately Charles left becasue there are too many arseholes on the site who get their noses put out of joint when someone shows them up on their so called knowledge sets. I use the rep system fully. both to hand out good and bad rep. If you dont want any bad rep to be given to you, dont be an arse.

 

[GreenintheThumb]

Getting negative reps in a thread you started by people who haven't even bothered to read it in its entirety. Maybe that's why Charles left?

 

[GMT]

Gitt, why are you trying to start a fight with me? You didnt start this thread, Tom Hill did. The rep system is a part of this site, and as you know, I'm not the only one who uses it, diff is I have enough rep for neg hits not to affect me. I was in the thread early on, now im back at the end, i didnt read the middle, get over it. I've told you not to be an arse and you come back at me again, are you looking for a ban or just to get the thread closed? I spoke to charles at length before he left about the reasons he was leaving, and I've already given them. And at times like this I wonder why more havent left as people like you make contributing to the site really hard work.

 

[englishrick]

please can we just show a lil love,,,,,,


hay btw guys,,,ExE is back,,,an hes being propper cool nowadays,,,hes just chattin about breeding and not slamming the seed companys for breeding under his level,,,if you want to find him il point you in his direction....at the min we are having a good chat on Sex determination

comon guys lets not argue,,,,

1 sec,,,,,,,hmmmmmm,,,,this joint taste gooooood

 

[GreenintheThumb]

I asked to have this thread break away from a different discussion. A mod put Tom's name on it. Nothing I did in here is worthy of a ban or even a thread closure. However, it's a good idea to read a whole thread before posting in it. Maybe your reptile and ratchet ideas have been covered...

Anyway, GMT I don't even know what you're trying to say in here. Or what evidence you have for your beliefs.

 

[gettitreal]

The problem "eXe" has with amateur breeding is not that its under His level, its because it erodes the fucking genepool WHILE it does not get the expected result.

GMT, you could learn a lot more from real genetics texts. I wouldnt exactly get all my information from icmag.com.

I would say someone with knowledge, like Charles, probably gets tired of trying to show facts in a sea of blind speculation, stoner myth and full-on idiocy.

 

[englishrick]

,,fair enough,

im gutted Charles aint about more often...hay GMT would you please explain your first post,,i didnt quite understand it propperly,,,i dont think the other guys did ither..[im just speculating tho]



hay GetItReal,,,,can we not gain any advantages from hobby breeding?,,,is it not possible that good breeders will miss something and only the hobby breeders or recreational breeders hold soloutions to some very important n-dimensional niche enviroments.... ?

 

[englishrick]

id just like to say....

ive been almost makin up my own terms lately,,,this sex determination argument is funny

 

[GreenintheThumb]

can we not gain any advantages from hobby breeding?,,,is it not possible that good breeders will miss something and only the hobby breeders or recreational breeders hold soloutions to some very important n-dimensional niche enviroments.... ?

Nope. Nothing to gain. One day we'll all come to terms with that, some at slower paces. Oddly enough it seems directly proportional to how deep an individual is in this "industry" and how much money they're making now. And Rick I'm flabbergasted you don't have a clearer view on this subject by now. Many have been raving about the same issues for years. Was Allard no help to you? I guess not judging from your post thinking selfing is the end all means to the end of cannabis improvement. And this community would be a better place if you didn't make your own words/definitions; especially when there's scientific accurate ones that already exist.

 

[englishrick]

sam coined "true female",,,,,it seems like anyone can coin a term,,,,,,,,,,but yeh i agree with you,,,its not cool to coin terms willy-nilly,,,

your correct,,my learning difficultys are impeeding some simple understandings

but some of the time im just playing devils advocate,,,,im still not convinced hobbybreeding is more troubble than its worth,,,,but as it stand now, i agree with both you and GetItReal....im still gona search for a good-enough reason for hobby breeders to continue...

ive got a weird feeling monoecious specimines should be utalized and not discarded

my understnding is that we cant constantly move things into homozygous positions,,,the heterozygote advantage is too big..imo

yes,,Allard is amazing!!,,,but im still re-reading it...im not 100% on Allard yet...but im working on it

as you can tell GreenInTheThumb im oviously still searching for something that i dont quite understand,,,hopefully it will come clear to me soon





ps,,,...at the min im having a hard time distinguishing the genetic difference between hemaphrodite`s and monoecious specimines ,,,i understand the phenotipic differences but not the genetic differences

GetItReal made a reference to a paper writen by McPartland and Clarke that im gona read soon so maybe that might shed some light on it

 

[GMT]

Do none of you see the irony of complaining about hobbiests not contributing to the industry on a site paid for by the work of these hobbiests?

 

[GreenintheThumb]

I'll have to ask Charles about that one. I'm not sure our simple stoner brains could understand a complex concept like irony without his help.

I'm sure people have bitched about the shitty quality of Budweiser on their website. What's the big deal?

And you still haven't expanded upon your first poorly worded and understood post in this thread.

 

[GMT]

Hi Tom,

Personally I would always want any females that showed male pollen sacks to be removed from breeding stock. How far you go in order to "make" them do that is clearly debatable but I find it hard to imagine the production of male reproductive organs on a female to be beneficial to our requirements. I understand that not all offspring from a hermie (term used for simplicity in this situation) will hermie, or that not all offspring from a particular mother who doesn't wont either, however evolution shows us that to exist, we draw upon what existed before us. To me it stands to reason that over time, using plants that don't hermie will produce offspring that doesn't hermie. And that's using natural selection the way nature does. ie. by phenotypic selection alone. A lioness doesn't select a lion because his last set of cubs were big, but rather because he is big. Selecting the average from a population or open pollination does more to preserve the genepool, but less to aid evolution of the gene pool. A certain amount of selection is always needed. I personally feel that's why its preferable to add hermies to the list of no nos.

could you point to the part of that post which is confusing to you please, I'll do my best to explain what I meant by it.

 

[GreenintheThumb]

I thought this was your first post:

Just dropping in on this thread, cant say i read it all just skimmed it. But I want to chip in my own personal opinion on sex chromosomes. I dont believe in male a male gene containing the info necessary for males and the female holding female info the way I used to. I now believe that both sexes hold all the info, but also the instructions for inhibitting the devolpment of the other sex. So a male will inhibbit female growth successfully rather than force male growth. And vice versa.

Why do you believe this. The wording is clumsy but overall you think every plant can code for both pistil and stamen?

This is why a pure female will throw pollen when a chemical inhibitor is added as it inhibits the females ability to inhibit the male development. ie the negatives cancel out allowing the full development of the plant.

Maybe it throws pollen because we're changing its hormones? I don't see how this is evidence of much. Can you further the idea or your experiences?

Clearly how succesfully a plant inhibits the development of the oposite sex will be determined by environment and genetic coding. A portion of the coding will be passed onto offspring, and therefore the ability to inhibit the development of both sexes on one plant.

Why is only a portion of the coding passed on? Again, it helps to have evidence for opinions/claims.

Or the short answer, yes hermying is a family trait.

What is a family trait?

 

[GMT]

I cant be bothered to cut and paste the way you did, I'll just list my answers.

why does anyone believe anything? Just a way of taking a step between not knowing and knowing. Yes assuming we are talking about an average of the breed, and not a one off example which has a genetic defect.

How are those hormones being changed and what are their roles? My theory on this is that if by inhibitting the production of certain chems/hormones which would naturally be produced results in the growth of both sexual reproductive systems, then that which would normally be produced ( chem/hormone wise) may be preventing the growth of one sexual reproductive system.

well because part of the coding is passed on from the other parent, and part of it is rewritten at the point of haploid cell creation.

in people it may be tallness, or shortness or red hair or a bad heart or that which is more common among very closely related members of a species than would be observed among the general population.

 

[gettitreal]

rick, Ive given it some thought and I cant come up with one important purpose of amateur breeding as it presently occurs on drug cannabis.

There are no:
-important genetic breakthroughs,
-stable trait improvements,
-preservation of important genes,
-medical advancements
-reliable seedline performance,
-no confidence in the seed description that cultivators might use to select a variety.
-advances in disease or pest resistance, nothing.

rick, that quote is not a paper, its a book. Available on amazon.com.

GMT:"Do none of you see the irony of complaining about hobbiests not contributing to the industry on a site paid for by the work of these hobbiests? "

>> Do you not see the irony of forums and communities that espouse to keep cannabis safe, actually fighting to keep causing it more and more harm?

 

[GMT]

If I believed it to be true, I would, but as I don't, I don't. If you do, then I have to ask the question, why are you appart of it?

 

[englishrick]

i am inclined to agree with you GetitReal,,,,,but im still left this niggeling feeling that hobby breeders DO contribute to divercity,,somehow,,,,,i agree with you as it stands but im still searching to prove my feeling correct,,

yeh man,,i relized its a book ,,,im pretty sure i own a copy too,,,i recently bought anything connected with Mr Watson ,so im pretty sure i own it,,ive mainly been reading a The Medical Uses of Cannabis and Cannabinoids edited by Dr Guy at the min,,,,its basicly a mix of cool info,,,lol, i bet you have read it,,,

ive not started on the "pest and desiese" book yet,,,,that is the 1 your talking about is it not?,,,,looks like a fab book,,,,il park it next to the bath soon,,,,il put some bloody candels on and have a long soak..lol

 

[gettitreal]

I have been a part of it since it began. Im the part that keeps it real.

Can you imagine what we would have without some people to correct the stoner logic?

Which part of the community are you?

sure rick, keep on studying and learning and accepting Truths. Nothing wrong with that.