Heritability of Intersex Traits
- Thread starter Tom Hill
- Start date
Daytripper
Member
the answers to many questions on intersex traits can be found in "advances in hemp research" by paolo ranalli, read chapter 8 "genetic improvement : conventional approaches"
mentions number of alleles involved in intersex forms....ect
mentions number of alleles involved in intersex forms....ect
Daytripper
Member
some info obtained from experiments on intersexual cannabis.
"in the 1980's the soviet reasearcher migal began new investigations on sex determination in hemp and found that the gene for lax inflorescence (I) was closely linked to the gene for masculinity (M) on the y chromosome, while compact inflorescence was linked to the gene for feminity (F).the iIFMgenotype is male and the iiFF genotype is female.migal suggests the presence of sexual genes on the autosomes as well as on the gonosomes. in the inhertiance of monoecism he distinguishes between the purely female phenotype segrating from the monoecious population and the dioecious female genotype proven to exist in crossing experiments" - advances
"in the 1980's the soviet reasearcher migal began new investigations on sex determination in hemp and found that the gene for lax inflorescence (I) was closely linked to the gene for masculinity (M) on the y chromosome, while compact inflorescence was linked to the gene for feminity (F).the iIFMgenotype is male and the iiFF genotype is female.migal suggests the presence of sexual genes on the autosomes as well as on the gonosomes. in the inhertiance of monoecism he distinguishes between the purely female phenotype segrating from the monoecious population and the dioecious female genotype proven to exist in crossing experiments" - advances
Daytripper
Member
it seems to me that cannabis research indicates that what are called true females is just one of six female sex phenotypes, there are also six male sex phenotypes. kohler (1958, 1961) said that intersex traits involved non linked genes and at least four intersex alleles. it easy to conclude that its on the x .
a natural or stable environment would solve most hermie problems.
a natural or stable environment would solve most hermie problems.
Got a link to the articles? I'm curious how they came up with the four/six alleles. And I'm curious how much of this is applicable to dioecious drug types.
http://books.google.com/books?id=UE...earch chapter 8&pg=PA153#v=onepage&q=&f=false
You'll not find the answers there I don't think - the jury is still out....
Other than it being much more complex than XX/XY, that much is quite clear indeed. -T
You'll not find the answers there I don't think - the jury is still out....
Other than it being much more complex than XX/XY, that much is quite clear indeed. -T
Daytripper
Member
advances is not on the web for free, has to be purchased. its a collection of expermental data, research papers for debate and reference.
not much on drug cannabis, the info on cannabis sexuality come from hemp research, i believe it applies to drug cannabis as well.
kohler came to his conclusions by analysis of he experimental crosses. the exact procedure involves equations where one plugs in the data from their test grows. this would go far off topic and be a lot of typing for me.
i will instead direct you to read about quantitative inhertiance after that perhaps you might want to start a thread on the determing the number of genes in a quantitative trait.
ok it doesn't provide all the answers or address the idea of "stress testing for intersex traits" nor does it provide direct answers on:
eliminating intersex genes
why an intersex female crossed to a male produces progeny that shows less intersex traits
than other females.
in the absence of direct answers a person might read a number of research papers combine that info with direct growing experience, allow all that to percolate in the subconscious then one day draw their own conclusion be it right or wrong.
while eliminating intersex genes from the entire genepool may sound good, it may not be in mankinds best interest in the long run.
"the world works like a bow,when you pull the string the top comes down, the bottom come up , and all the parts move"
i got my cue to exit this stage
not much on drug cannabis, the info on cannabis sexuality come from hemp research, i believe it applies to drug cannabis as well.
kohler came to his conclusions by analysis of he experimental crosses. the exact procedure involves equations where one plugs in the data from their test grows. this would go far off topic and be a lot of typing for me.
i will instead direct you to read about quantitative inhertiance after that perhaps you might want to start a thread on the determing the number of genes in a quantitative trait.
ok it doesn't provide all the answers or address the idea of "stress testing for intersex traits" nor does it provide direct answers on:
eliminating intersex genes
why an intersex female crossed to a male produces progeny that shows less intersex traits
than other females.
in the absence of direct answers a person might read a number of research papers combine that info with direct growing experience, allow all that to percolate in the subconscious then one day draw their own conclusion be it right or wrong.
while eliminating intersex genes from the entire genepool may sound good, it may not be in mankinds best interest in the long run.
"the world works like a bow,when you pull the string the top comes down, the bottom come up , and all the parts move"
i got my cue to exit this stage
ive talked about quantitive traiots beffore,,,,,
below is my main reference
,,,,,,,,is it any good??????WIKIPIDIA said:
i agree,,,an i throughly enjoyed your post
Well thanks Tom, quite a nice read there. But I agree with you, it's not the answers I was looking for. In fact, the entire chapter is prefaced by stating that the XY mechanism is valid for dioecious hemp. I think that says more about what us drug types care about than the entire article which is all about hybridizing monoecious hemp. We can all agree that none of us are growing monoecious hemp, right? Well maybe Sam is
Anyway here's the big points for those too lazy to read it:
XY mechanism is valid for the inheritance of sex in doecious hemp(IMO likely the same in dioecious drug cultivars as well)
The inheritance of sex and habit of monoecious and intersex types is not explained by the simple XY system but that monoecious lines MUST be maintained by man. Dioecism is dominant and without selection monoecious lines would revert to dioecious. All good news for us pot heads.
Anyway here's the big points for those too lazy to read it:
XY mechanism is valid for the inheritance of sex in doecious hemp(IMO likely the same in dioecious drug cultivars as well)
The inheritance of sex and habit of monoecious and intersex types is not explained by the simple XY system but that monoecious lines MUST be maintained by man. Dioecism is dominant and without selection monoecious lines would revert to dioecious. All good news for us pot heads.
Touching on some stuff Daytriper mentions, some may find this of interest others may not
http://www.bio.uaic.ro/publicatii/anale_biochimie/2007_VIII_f2/2007_Anale_GBM_VIII_f2_l07.pdf
I see jones already posted the link above*
I wouldn't say "revert"
also you can still get herms in a dioecious population
http://www.bio.uaic.ro/publicatii/anale_biochimie/2007_VIII_f2/2007_Anale_GBM_VIII_f2_l07.pdf
I see jones already posted the link above*
yes see the model for dioecy by Charlesworth
I wouldn't say "revert"
also you can still get herms in a dioecious population
K. Hirata concluded that (x) has a higher male tendency than (X), and that
Then with Polys you can get the likes of XXXXXY etc
ethics = seedchoice,,,,,,,,,,,,this site changes ethics!!!!!!!!,,,,,,,,,ethics of seed production is the driving force behind this thread
sounds like im the Biology Baby round here
,,,,im cool with with that,,,,nothing wrong with crying out for food when i find it so hard to feed myself,,,,,children who tit feed grow differently to 1`s who dont,,,,,,,ethics is a funny thing
Uruk
It's not so useful when you take a quote like that out of context. Anyway, how prevalent are these wacky XXXY and XXXX or XXY individuals in the drug pool? I imagine these all had to be created and were done to further understand the sex of cannabis. But I don't know how many people are growing skunks that just happen to be XXXXXXY. Not likely IMO. I don't even know what this guy's trying to say about X versus x. So a xY male will have a higher number of males in the progeny? When was this research done? And let me guess: it was all done with monoecious hemp. How come in all the examples it's all capitalized? Where's the XxXY's and the XXxy's? What about them?
It's not so useful when you take a quote like that out of context. Anyway, how prevalent are these wacky XXXY and XXXX or XXY individuals in the drug pool? I imagine these all had to be created and were done to further understand the sex of cannabis. But I don't know how many people are growing skunks that just happen to be XXXXXXY. Not likely IMO. I don't even know what this guy's trying to say about X versus x. So a xY male will have a higher number of males in the progeny? When was this research done? And let me guess: it was all done with monoecious hemp. How come in all the examples it's all capitalized? Where's the XxXY's and the XXxy's? What about them?
nvisionary
Member
its X/Y, with modifiers on autosomes.
those that tit feed too long turn into mummys boys and never do anything for themselves, or just just people with severe issues
Which one?
Depends some might say quite a bit, especially if you look into blueberry.
ok so you say its of the XY and not X:A dosage? that goes againts some of what I'm led to believe, or would it be better to suggest it isn't fully X:A but getting there ?
It would seem to me if we look at the XY mech it could explain why we get herms freakishly in otherwise all Dioecious populations, perhaps the "Y" has a female supressor in some case and "X" a male recessive supressor ?
anyway a good discussion seems theres some with good vision and creators here.
Brownpants
Active member
"Too much confusion.....can't get no relief."
Intersex genes is a broad term.
IT can be broken down to what is actually observed in drug strain cannabis.
There are at least two types:
Monoecious type - Plants have separate male and female flowers on the same plant. A plant species where the male and female organs are found in different flowers on the same plant. These plants are often wind pollinated.
Hermaphrodite type - Plants with flowers that have both male and female parts.
And then there is my favourite type, which contains no intersex genes, the Dioecious type- All plants are either female or male.
PEace
Intersex genes is a broad term.
IT can be broken down to what is actually observed in drug strain cannabis.
There are at least two types:
Monoecious type - Plants have separate male and female flowers on the same plant. A plant species where the male and female organs are found in different flowers on the same plant. These plants are often wind pollinated.
Hermaphrodite type - Plants with flowers that have both male and female parts.
And then there is my favourite type, which contains no intersex genes, the Dioecious type- All plants are either female or male.
PEace
Brownpants
Active member
Then you haven't looked hard enough.
I should have probably said contains no intersex gene expression. The genes might still be there but aren't seen in the phenotype....making them Dioecious in nature.
Hey URUK,
The quotes I just meant the whole XXXXY XXXXYY all that stuff you pulled a bit out of context. Like I said, I think those expressions were created and aren't just sitting in the blueberry pool. Why did you say to look at blueberry? You understand tests have to be performed to verify these sort of individuals. You can't just grow them out and see the difference. And you said some would say they're pretty prevalent? Who are these people? I've been wasting a lot of time on these sort of sites for many years. I've yet to see anyone credible talking about them.
The XY mechanism may have nothing at all to do with intersex traits. Why do you assume it's the heart of the problem when there's so many other chromosomes that these intersex traits could be on?
The quotes I just meant the whole XXXXY XXXXYY all that stuff you pulled a bit out of context. Like I said, I think those expressions were created and aren't just sitting in the blueberry pool. Why did you say to look at blueberry? You understand tests have to be performed to verify these sort of individuals. You can't just grow them out and see the difference. And you said some would say they're pretty prevalent? Who are these people? I've been wasting a lot of time on these sort of sites for many years. I've yet to see anyone credible talking about them.
The XY mechanism may have nothing at all to do with intersex traits. Why do you assume it's the heart of the problem when there's so many other chromosomes that these intersex traits could be on?
