Help me identify this deficiency

[Guffetrold]

Oh my god, my whole post just got deleted. I suck!

Now.. I was asking for a bit of help on my ladies.. 2 Skunk #1 and 1 White Widow. Almost 4 weeks into flowering. This happens on the lower leaves on all of the plants:






Any idea to what it could be? I fed them GHE floragrow,micro and bloom since the start of flowering. - I wanted to go 100 % organic but couldnt find the fertz i wanted.. But the soil was organic from the start, so no nutes till flower. (I also used half the dose to ease them into the nutes)

Thanks in advance!

 

[dank.frank]

looks like lock out of micro nutrients as a result of pH imbalance...


dank.Frank

 

[RubeGoldberg]

looks like lock out of micro nutrients as a result of pH imbalance...


dank.Frank

2nd'ed on that,

Not so much a "deficiency" because the nutrient is available in the rootzone, the plant just can't take it in due to the pH being out of range.

few questions so we can come up with a gameplan.

1. What is the pH going in?
2. Whats the pH of the runoff?
3. How often are you feeding compared to watering?

 

[zeke99]

2nd'ed on that,

Not so much a "deficiency" because the nutrient is available in the rootzone, the plant just can't take it in due to the pH being out of range.

few questions so we can come up with a gameplan.

1. What is the pH going in?
2. Whats the pH of the runoff?
3. How often are you feeding compared to watering?

With all due respect because you are just trying to help, those are the entirely wrong questions to start with.

I will direct the OP to a guide created by botany experts, such as this one:

http://ag.arizona.edu/pubs/garden/az1106.pdf

When it comes to suspected nutrient deficiencies, the questions you want to start with are as follows:

Is it newer or older growth that is affected?
Is it from the lower or upper part of the plant?
And since we have photos, we don't have to ask which part of the leaf is affected.

Than you might move onto to the water source/quality and go from there.

The OPs photos remind me of when I've seen heat stress.
I'm curious about the environmental conditions.
How close is the bulb to the plants? What is the leaf surface temp? What is the RH% around the leafs?

 

[Guffetrold]

Thanks for all the input so far! I am using a 400w hps in a cooltube, and try to keep it as close as possible. The closest i've had it was 6 inches, but atm the top that is closest to the light is 8 inches away, while the rest of the canopy is a little further.. I have wondered if it was heat problems, but my thermometer says 29degrees at its hottest during the day(at the top of canopy) so it shouldnt be.

I try to keep my ingoing water at around 6-6.5 - is this too low for soil? I tested the runoff today, and it showed a pH around 4! I tried flushing with 20 l water, but the runoff still tested the same, so I wondered if i did something wrong and put the plant back. I water every other time with nutes.

So to sum up:
Mostly older growth affected, sometimes new growth on lower branches.
From the lower part
The water is tap water pH'ed down to 6-6.5. Feeding every other watering.
The bulb is CLOSE, but the temps are okay - I heard that the leaves bleached if too close, havent had any of that..
The RH goes to about 70 % unfortunately (during night) - I have 2 oscillating fans 24/7 across the plants and an extractor fan as well.

Edit: I did have 8 plants at the get to (with no pruning of leaves) so they were CLOSE in my space. Big and bushy. Just thought that might be usefull to know, that before flower, they were very crowded.

 

[Stress_test]

With all due respect because you are just trying to help, those are the entirely wrong questions to start with.

I will direct the OP to a guide created by botany experts, such as this one:

http://ag.arizona.edu/pubs/garden/az1106.pdf

When it comes to suspected nutrient deficiencies, the questions you want to start with are as follows:

Is it newer or older growth that is affected?
Is it from the lower or upper part of the plant?
And since we have photos, we don't have to ask which part of the leaf is affected.

Than you might move onto to the water source/quality and go from there.

The OPs photos remind me of when I've seen heat stress.
I'm curious about the environmental conditions.
How close is the bulb to the plants? What is the leaf surface temp? What is the RH% around the leafs?

With all due respect, because you are attempting to help: Every one of the questions you suggest asking are obvious and have already been answered.

The leaves are lower leaves, which are logically "older leaves" and are shaded from intense light and less susceptible to heat.

Now back to the OP: Your plants have a Phosphorus deficiency...
In flower phosphorus becomes more important to the plant, and since you weren't feeding through veg, then the nutes aren't available for the plant to uptake. Neither are the micro nutes and chelated minerals. Basically the plants are starving to death.
.

.
If they were in my garden I would give em a dose or two of the following solution:

Nutrient/water schedule: By weight, as needed.
Nutrient recipe:
16 crushed Aspirin,
3/8 cup Brer Rabbit Molasses, (8Tbs)
4 Tbls Epsom Salt,
Appropriate dosage of flower nutrients,
Mixed in 3 cups hot water (boiling hot) to dissolve solids.
Makes 1 quart concentrate. Stored in Refer.
Mixes 16 Gal. @ 1/4 cup per gallon of water and Ph to 6.5ish.

The aspirin will help build immunity to pests and virus's.
Molasses is a great supply of micro nutrients, as well as K and Mg.
Epsom salts keeps Cal/Mag in check.
LM plant starter cleans and encourages root growth, as well as delivering sufficient chelated iron to assist in uptake.

Adjust pH to 6.8 or 7 and flush em with the solution... The damaged leaves won't ever heal and might even finish dying, but the damage will halt almost immediately after you dose em.

 

[Guffetrold]

Thanks for the answer Stresstest, but I think I forgot to add that I used an organic mix from cellmax! (blood meal, bone meal, perlite, worm fertiliser, fungal strains and bacteria) The reason I had to go and use chemical ferts was that I couldnt find the stuff I was looking for. Does change anything?

Otherwise I will see if I can get the stuff so i can try the suggested mix

 

[Stress_test]

Thanks for the answer Stresstest, but I think I forgot to add that I used an organic mix from cellmax! (blood meal, bone meal, perlite, worm fertiliser, fungal strains and bacteria) The reason I had to go and use chemical ferts was that I couldnt find the stuff I was looking for. Does change anything?

Otherwise I will see if I can get the stuff so i can try the suggested mix

I don't think it would effect anything really. The only possible issue I could foresee would be Nitrogen but the recipe doesn't really contain any either so it should be all good.

Everything I've listed is available at WalMart. But you will want to add your flower nutes to the recipe too.

 

[Guffetrold]

Aw man.. I SO want a WalMart! Here you have to go to all kind of different stores to get what you want..

I was more refering to the feeding they got from the soil during veg, wouldnt they save phosphorus from that? and minerals and micros? Just want to make sure before I do anything!

 

[Guffetrold]

Aspirin, check
Molasses - my dictionary says syrup? What characteristics should it have?
Epsom salt - should be easy to find in some sort of health shop

 

[RubeGoldberg]

With all due respect because you are just trying to help, those are the entirely wrong questions to start with.

I will direct the OP to a guide created by botany experts, such as this one:

http://ag.arizona.edu/pubs/garden/az1106.pdf

When it comes to suspected nutrient deficiencies, the questions you want to start with are as follows:

Is it newer or older growth that is affected?
Is it from the lower or upper part of the plant?
And since we have photos, we don't have to ask which part of the leaf is affected.

Than you might move onto to the water source/quality and go from there.

The OPs photos remind me of when I've seen heat stress.
I'm curious about the environmental conditions.
How close is the bulb to the plants? What is the leaf surface temp? What is the RH% around the leafs?

not to be a "dick", but what a gigantic fucking time waste,

I work with several growers co-ops specifically to solve garden issues for a living.
If I gave bad advice, I'd have bled out my fucking neck in a ditch years ago.

Don't come the the infirmary to smack talk, people are here to fix their sick gardens. pH related lockout is culprit number 1 in soil and soilless medium indoor gardens experiencing deficiencies.

 

[Guffetrold]

So, I did some shopping today:

Cookin'

The brew is in the fridge now cooling off. So 1/4 cup to a gallon, right?

I am using 3 part nutes from GHE, so what would be an appropiate flower dose? The card says 3 ml Gro, 6 ml Micro and 9 ml Bloom - Should I just use bloom then, or make a low dosis with all the stuff?

 

[dank.frank]

Not sure why people gave you an organic solution to a chemical feeding program...not sure what the effects will be...or rather, if you will see the results you are after without an established microherd...or one that is being killed off rather as a result of chemical nutes, in what was originally an organic soil blend.

Not really my area of expertise when it comes to fixing issues regarding chemical nutrient feeding programs, but once again...

I would guess you have a pH range of about 7.5 - 8.0 at this point and probably climbing. I don't think this is def. because you are not providing food...this is def. because of pH lockout. The next thing to become an issue is lockout of P and stunted growth in bud development and size...


dank.Frank

 

[Guffetrold]

I have provided food since the start of flower, but of course, if I have lockout, they wont be taken up.

I pH'ed the solution to 7 and flushed one of my plants. After testing the runoff, it came in at about 4 (way to acidic at least) - I heard something about adding lime, can anyone confirm this? Is there another way to stabilize my pH, cause if the intake is 7 and outtake 4, I suspect something is wrong.

 

[greendreamer]

lime it bro

 

[Rusty Trichome]

Just skimming over this thread, but noticed a few responses that made me cringe.

It's not a heat issue. Not even close.
It's not really looking like a def. (or overdose) issue.
It's not looking like a chemical vs. organic issue. (especially since a chemical compound is a chemical compound regardless if man-made or made by nature) Only difference I've ever seen is the 'inorganic' being immediately available for uptake, but "organics" offer a slower release. But it's not looking like a nutrient dump, as all leaves would be affected.

What it does look like is either overwatering causing root damage, (inability to uptake ANYTHING) or nutrient solution being splashed on the lower leaves when feeding and/or watering. If left to sit on the leaves, it WILL burn in that fashion. Are you by chance foliar spraying 'em with anything?

What are you using to monitor runoff ph? If using those color-coded drops, runoff tinting skews the color-coded results. Unless you're in straight cow manure, doubtful 4.0 is an accurate runoff ph. And if you are chasing inaccurate ph numbers, you are fighting a losing battle. A 4.0 ph would have them as yellow as a yield sign in no time at all.

Almost looks like H202 burn...Are you using hydrogen peroxide on 'em?

Would be nice to know what soil you're in, what ammendments you've been forcing on 'em, whether or not you let the soil dry between waterings...ya know...all that troubleshooting info one needs for an accurate diagnosis...

 

[Guffetrold]

From the start

Organic soil from cellmax (blood meal, bone meal, perlite, worm fertiliser, fungal strains and bacteria)
I did foilar feed them at the very start of flowering, so that could be it. It was very mild though! I used the FloraSeries for soil and have been following the directions and fed with every other watering..
There may have been some splashing on the leaves.
I do let the soil dry between waterings, usually poke a stick gently to the bottom and see if the soil is wet still. If not, I water.

Please let me know if you need anymore information, and thanks for the response I already fed one of my plants the suggested pillsugarsalt solution.

Note: I can see that the GHE tripack has you using both micro, gro and bloom during the whole cycle, but in different measures. I only used it from the start of flowering, maybe it isnt meant to be used that way?

 

[Guffetrold]

Oh, and forgot to add, i am using a liquid pH tester kit

 

[High Country]

The good old question of "What's Wrong With My Plant"?

Deficiences of this and that, in hydro and dirt. Monster this...monster that.

I have found over the years, in hydro and dirt...over complication of the process sometimes does not work. Think like a farmer...basic light, food and water requirements.

On many grows I have had weird coloured or shaped leaves but the end product was good. If you can grow vegies you can grow this shit. Chin up.

I especially like all the over complicated threads on cloning, some of the comments are out of this world.

After all...all you need

IS DIRT

FOR HEALTHY CLONES

 

[Rusty Trichome]

Since you're in a "hot" soil mix, doubtful the additional nutrients would be necessary, at least till some of the in-soil nutrients are burned-off via time and uptake. I checked, and from the info I've seen, your soil is already buffered. To what ph level...IDK. Do some Google searching for what other users have encountered.

Personally...I use aspirin on my ladies to stress the lady to produce nanners for femming. Not a chance in hell I'd use aspirin in a foliar or feeding solution. Plus, did the poster of that recipe say what Mg tablets to use, or would any size aspirin do...? Since I use the femming with aspirin technique, am curious how close to the stress line that addition will take you.

Doubtful your runoff ph number is even close. I'm unfamiliar with the particular brand of soil you're using, but does it mention lime or oyster shells or anything else that can be considered a buffering agent? (does it say "ph buffered" anywhere on the label?)

Adding lime if you don't know the buffering capacity of the soil is suicide. In other words, if it's already buffered, and you buffer it more, you are jacking the ph too high, and will not be able to rectify the situation. (you can't take it out once it's in)

Old leaves are old news. What does the new growth look like? (pix would help)

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