heath inspired test prototype (aero)

[gonzo`]

great thread, just read it all!

I think one thing you could do is add netting that hangs down for each wall.. your plants are expending a lot of energy just holding themselves up. If you help support them your buds will get even bigger!

 

[DHF]

great thread, just read it all!

I think one thing you could do is add netting that hangs down for each wall.. your plants are expending a lot of energy just holding themselves up. If you help support them your buds will get even bigger!

Don`t guess you noticed that the plants are in angled containers pointed right at the lights and not droopin at all Gonzo.....but....looks like they are at first glance so good call on your part for tryin ta help...and.....

I always hung horti-trellis in my rack rooms cuz the plants were taller/longer and needed the support during late flower/swellage , but those plants of FHC`s don`t appear to need vertical support or maybe they do if they`re gonna run 3 more weeks ?....so now...

Bout the trimming/pruning/training of the lil pre-veglings till they go in the bloom rooms.....up to this point , what`s been your previous process....I mean....

Looks like yas`ve been usin the picks of the litter cuts that`re all similar in plant structure and grow similarly once put in bloom for a damn near perfect canopy once stretch is over so.....

What I`m tryin ta say is I`m not sure I`d change anything you`ve done up to this point , but rather focus on keepin up the good work raisin cuts to feed the beast like you`ve obviously been doin , cuz you`re only as good as your next run waitin ta go in and replace the last 1 once you`re on rotations to do as many harvey`s a yr as possible.....

All I ever did was to trim laterals back and little sucker branches growin out the sides of the laterals to be kept for colas till they went in the flip rooms..lil mini xmas trees cuz I never touched a top cola..simple....babyshit....

Holler if I can help.....DHF.........

 

[farmhouse cat]

Thanks Gonzo! I appreciate that!

Well said about the vertical support DHF.

My veg process has been simple. I take cuttings from the plants 7 days after there put in flower (so no mothers). I take a shitload! and like you said "only using the pick of the liter".

Its been working good so far, so i guess your right why change it.

I thought maybe there was something like defoliation in veg for more bud sites etc might be beneficial. (ive been reading the "defol for high yield thread" also..

That veg room you see in the pics will be the 2nd flower room..(at some point) But it will be something different. Havent decided what kind of system to build in there yet.

thanks for the help guys.!

 

[DHF]

I know nothing about de-foliation as a so-called high yield technique cuz strippin leaves stunts plant growth and requires recovery time if done before stretch is over.....bet on it.........just like topping a plant.....stunts the fuck out of em......

Sure.....you get more tops that way in the long run , but how many plants can yas grow side by side untopped that won`t bush out and take longer to recover and try to fill in prime real estate for the perfect canopy....bunches....and they get there faster IME......anyways.....

Experimentin`s for closets and cabinets......just easier to control and do side by side`s for true results.....and then there`s all results bein different strain dependent ?.....too many variables for this old head....

Keep doin what you`re doin Bro...why fix what ain`t fucked up and gettin better from the looks of things.....so........I`ll be over here on my bucket....

Peace....DHF.........

 

[medical_breeder]

A lil known fact is that plants pump resin/frost as a defense mechanism from UV light/ heat damage , and suck juice during lights on , and then use/convert juice for swellage during lights off , so lower temps won`t cause frostiness but rather help color up the plants by killin chlorophyll in late flower Bro.......

Cold rootzones stop growth/swellage in their tracks and cause imbalances and deficiencies bar none but you`re all but done now so I`m fairly sure you`ll be aight .....anyways....

The little things....get ta know em....

Peace...DHF..........

hey bro no disrespect but cold root zones do not cause groth to stop
and does not cause defs in plants it in fact helps keep bugs fungas and bacteria out of the rez/plants i run a 24 bucket rec dwc system
and i keep my res temps anywhere between 58 to 68 degrees and i have noticed tighter bud groth and heavier yeilds. do some research bro cuz i thought the same thing untill i read about large scale green house growers chilling there rezes down to the low 50s. also since ive had my chiller i notice my roots get fuller and thicker becuz oxygen is at a higher level in cool rezes versus warm rezes.
Medical_Breeder

 

[bobblehead]

hey bro no disrespect but cold root zones do not cause groth to stop
and does not cause defs in plants it in fact helps keep bugs fungas and bacteria out of the rez/plants i run a 24 bucket rec dwc system
and i keep my res temps anywhere between 58 to 68 degrees and i have noticed tighter bud groth and heavier yeilds. do some research bro cuz i thought the same thing untill i read about large scale green house growers chilling there rezes down to the low 50s. also since ive had my chiller i notice my roots get fuller and thicker becuz oxygen is at a higher level in cool rezes versus warm rezes.
Medical_Breeder

oh my... you shouldn't have been so disrespectful to my friend... He's one of the most knowledgeable heads around here...

Cold root zones indeed slow down plant metabolism. This has been documented is scientific studies, so maybe you are the one who needs to do the research. The truth is that the roots will do even better at a warmer temperature, 70-75F. The problem with this is that less oxygen is available at warmer temperatures, and anaerobic bacteria can begin to take hold... and in fast hydro, that's not good cause they multiply super fast. That's why you're supposed to use a chiller, and keep the temps 65-70F.

Cool water... not cold water. I'm not telling you how to run your garden, but from a biological standpoint, you shouldn't be getting your roots that cold if you want maximum performance.

 

[medical_breeder]

oh my... you shouldn't have been so disrespectful to my friend... He's one of the most knowledgeable heads around here...

Cold root zones indeed slow down plant metabolism. This has been documented is scientific studies, so maybe you are the one who needs to do the research. The truth is that the roots will do even better at a warmer temperature, 70-75F. The problem with this is that less oxygen is available at warmer temperatures, and anaerobic bacteria can begin to take hold... and in fast hydro, that's not good cause they multiply super fast. That's why you're supposed to use a chiller, and keep the temps 65-70F.

Cool water... not cold water. I'm not telling you how to run your garden, but from a biological standpoint, you shouldn't be getting your roots that cold if you want maximum performance.

thank you sir and duley noted. so what i will do for the ic mag fam. is run 12 buckets with chiller set for 65 to 70 and and run the other 12 lets say 58 to 65 and do a side by side. as ive been running systems for 16 years and ran into problems with high rez temps that did alot of damage to my root zone and when i switched to a chiller problem solved. so i will take the diffrent opinions in advice and do a side by side grow with diffrent rez temps to see what the diffrence in growth are. and no disrespect to your friend
as i agree with everything else hes said in this thread except for the rez temps. there is no doubt that he knows his shit so hat off to the man. as i use alot of the meathods he describes to get the most out of my plants. So please bro dont slap the shit out of me yet. lol becuz a man that claims to know everything and needs to learn nonthing is a fool. and i am still constantly learning new tecniques all the time as there is still alot to learn when it comes to this typ of gardining every day thanks for the constructive critisim.
Medical_Breeder

 

[bobblehead]

thank you sir and duley noted. so what i will do for the ic mag fam. is run 12 buckets with chiller set for 65 to 70 and and run the other 12 lets say 58 to 65 and do a side by side. as ive been running systems for 16 years and ran into problems with high rez temps that did alot of damage to my root zone and when i switched to a chiller problem solved. so i will take the diffrent opinions in advice and do a side by side grow with diffrent rez temps to see what the diffrence in growth are. and no disrespect to your friend
as i agree with everything else hes said in this thread except for the rez temps. there is no doubt that he knows his shit so hat off to the man. as i use alot of the meathods he describes to get the most out of my plants. So please bro dont slap the shit out of me yet. lol becuz a man that claims to know everything and needs to learn nonthing is a fool. and i am still constantly learning new tecniques all the time as there is still alot to learn when it comes to this typ of gardining every day thanks for the constructive critisim.
Medical_Breeder

If I seem upset it's just that you told my man to do some research... and he doesn't speak off theory, but rather 20+ yrs of growing experience. I speak mostly off growing theory... being why I have to back myself with biological facts.

"...When the root-zone temperature in Ricinus communis was decreased below a threshold value, leaf growth occurred preferentially at night and was strongly inhibited during the day. Overall, leaf expansion, shoot biomass growth, root elongation and ramification decreased rapidly, carbon fluxes from shoot to root were diminished and carbohydrate contents of both root and shoot increased. Further, transpiration rate was not affected, yet hydrostatic tensions in shoot xylem increased. When root temperature was increased again, xylem tension reduced, leaf growth recovered rapidly, carbon fluxes from shoot to root increased, and carbohydrate pools were depleted. We hypothesize that the decreased uptake of water in cool roots diminishes the growth potential of the entire plant – especially diurnally, when the growing leaf loses water via transpiration. As a consequence, leaf growth and metabolite concentrations can vary enormously, depending on root-zone temperature and its heterogeneity inside pots.”

"...Root zone warming with cool night air temperatures enhanced plant size when root temperatures was less than those measured in control plants from standard night conditions. When root temperature exceeded the control temperature under standard night conditions a decrease in overall growth was observed. Bud weight increased with root zone heating under cool night conditions."

http://www.rootzonetemperaturecontrol.com/GREENHOUSE_RESEARCH.html

 

[Aerohead]

and no disrespect to your friend
as i agree with everything else hes said in this thread except for the rez temps..

You should agree with him regarding res temps as well because he is spot on right about it..

 

[DHF]

Medical Breeder......Never let it be said that I`m not willing to learn and apply new methods to dial in a setup , but I assure yas that I`ve got a Phd in rootzone and rez management dealing with the fastest hydro setup there ever was for almost a decade with my old krusty buckets.....and...

I did trial and error side by sides for several yrs tryin ta find rootzone sweet spots , and without a shadow of a doubt 69 degrees INSIDE the rootzones and a few degrees cooler , but not much for my big ass rez`s that I used aqua logic drop in probe chillers instead of inline recirculating ones so as to keep ANY heatgain out of the rez`s.....

ANYTHING below 65 degrees solution temp , even though it`s higher in dissolved oxygen will retard root and foliage growth before end of stretch , and most definitely retard budset and swellage till end of cycle cuz I`ve witnessed it many many times....now....

Sounds like you`ve found your sweet spot and things are workin for yas , but with all due respect it`s very presumptuous of you to step up and tell me I need ta do some research when I already did mine 20 yrs ago and have preached my findings ever since to help benefit all my grow Bro`s in their quest for a dialed set up.....and.....

Bobbles is dead on bout a warmer rootzone outperforming a cold rootzone 2 to 1 , but anaerobic conditions and rootzone pathogens proliferate and cause imminent crop death with rootzone temps above 72 degrees constant.....bet on it....so see.....

I`m always willing to learn new things , like what I`ve been seeing with EWC teas in RDWC to help prevent root rot from dealing with elevated temps in rootzones , but we always ran SM-90 to prevent root rot in my krusty buckets with excellent success.....well that and keepin rez temps in the 65-69 degree zone for accelerated growth and swellage....but to summarize....

If you`ve found something no one else knows about for the betterment of our lil hobby , then by all means be sure to come back and letus know your findings , but I assure yas there`s nothing new under the sun, and everything old is new again.....

Peace....DHF..........

 

[farmhouse cat]

DHF, you mentioned a couple pages back about time to start tweakin for grams per watt.

Up to this point gpw havent really been a priority in as much as just trying to get as much of a harvest as i can in a new system. What would you suggest i change or modify? (watt wise)

I measured the canopys from bottom buds to top colas on each wall and from side to side.

From top to bottom is 5ft
side to side is less of course at about 3ft after stretch.

Right now as you know i have 2 1k's in there.

Im thinking i could probably get away with hangin 2 600s in future runs?


Right now with a full swollen canopy the 2 1ks im getting 133 watts per sq ft..thats huge and not needed.

I did some math and with 2 600s i could get 80 right now. even at the beginning of flower with 2 600s and a canopy of 5x5 i still get 48 watts per sq ft.

sorry if im confusing.

 

[Hydrosun]

isn't your set up 5x5 per wall or 25sq' a wall or 100sq'? If so and you are running 2,000watts. Then you are at 20 watts a square foot. I personally would stick to the 1ks and not down size.

 

[farmhouse cat]

isn't your set up 5x5 per wall or 25sq' a wall or 100sq'? If so and you are running 2,000watts. Then you are at 20 watts a square foot. I personally would stick to the 1ks and not down size.

My math could be wrong.. each wall is 5x5. = 25sq ft.

2000/ 25 = 80 watts per sq ft a wall. regardless of the other walls?

@ 1200/25 = 48.

again i could be wrong.

 

[Hydrosun]

Nope we can't ignore the other walls. If you had a nice Magnum hood focusing ALL the light into 25sq' I'd go with your math.

(2 Kw over 5' x 10' or 40watts a sq')

But the way I see it is that all 2,000watts spray out in 360 degrees and hits all 100sq' of surface area for 20 watts a sq'.

 

[farmhouse cat]

hmmm something doesnt seem right?? isnt that the beauty of vertical?

 

[farmhouse cat]

Hydro...does a wall directly across from another wall receive less light?

 

[Hydrosun]

Vert is beautiful, but math and physics are universal. The reason why reflectors are used is because in many systems all the plants are in one area. Your system has plants all the way around.

If there was no decay / light loss then you could at a 5th or 6th wall and have a pentagon or hexagon of weed. Would the 5th and 6th wall decrease the amount of light going to walls 1 - 4, yes it has to. Any light absorbed by one plant is not available to be reflected to another plant.

Vert is beautiful but you still need your plants to have a lot of light. If you switched to 2x600 I suspect you would lose a good amount of yield, and only save .8kwh x12hrs x 60days. 576 KWH saved x ELEC rate is savings @ $.125 KWH = total savings $72.

If there is no loss in production then go and save the $72 over the 60 day flower. If there is loss of production with less light then $36 a month in elec savings will be crushed by lower production.

Again if my math were not correct you could add wall 5 or 6 and really increase your production, but I think more walls is better than less light.

 

[farmhouse cat]

so in order for me to get 50 watts per sq ft, i would need 5000 watts in my setup?

I need a drink!

 

[Hydrosun]

Yep, If you had one light per 25sq' you get 40watts, so you need 1.25 lights per 25sq' to get 50 watts; however what you are yielding with 20watts per square foot makes me question the need for that 50watt figure. Especially since the quality of your and others grow with way less lights looks as good as the guys using 1kw per 2x4 tray, 125watts per sq'

 

[farmhouse cat]

Somebody want to help me find the watts per square foot here?

1K
I measured the canopy for each wall.. 5ft wide and 4 ft tall. The bulb is in the center of a 5x5ft area. and the bulb is 24inches (center plants) to 32 inches (corner plants).

I multiplied 5x4 to get 20. 1000 / 20 = 50 watts per sq ft???

Is that right?

hydro...here is a post from bobble a time ago.

sorry it didnt work...check page 8. post #110-111.