Hail Hydro 2.0: New Beginnings

[PetFlora]

Counting the days

I reduced rez ppm to < 400 as a quasi preflush

Pics 1 & 2 are under the SPYDR 600

Picture 4 is a triple cola top that's really heavy

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[PetFlora]

DAMN! His 28 day old main stalks are big, as are the plants. Not sure I agree that his Gavitas kick sand in all LEDs faces, but, they are mos def doing the job

I left a comment aksing whether he uses a DO meter to dose. Hopefully, he enlightens us a little

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpyyEWIX1Ps

 

[PetFlora]

Alas, the grower injecting pure O2 is not forthcoming

It seems like either Direct Oxygen Injection (DOI) or an emitter system necessitates having a DO meter ($500+) to know when to emit and when to stop. Perhaps there is no such thing as too much DO, but operating it longer than necessary means the emitters (or O2 tank) life is shortened

As I understand it the DO remains in solution for ~ 12 hours before dissipating. Also, the DO is spent when the solution is agitated, as it would be in a F & D.

I flood every 2 hours, which means I could put the emitter on a deep cycle timer to eyeball saturaton after each flood

Knowing the approximate 'on' time per gallon could eliminate the need for a $500 DO meter
.without actual cannabis grows to draw from the potential benefit might be negligible, but, if as Dennis from O2Gro says it make nutrients ~ 30% more efficient/effective. If you go through ~ 10 gallons a year, that savings alone could pay for the system.

I don't have that issue, for me it would be more about the science.

 

[RockinRobot]

Just as an FYI. You really do not need ANY dissolved oxygen in the nutrient solution in a flood and drain system. The entire theory behind flood and drain is that the flood drives out the stale air from the roots and the drain pulls fresh air to the roots. The roots get their oxygen directly from the air not the water like in DWC.

I started running flood and drain with aeration in the res then stopped. The only difference was more stable ph without aeration. Absolutely no difference in yield.

I recently started to aerate the reservoir again because I started using Mammoth P and it requires aeration as it is microbes. So, unless you're running some type of beneficial microbes, aerating a flood and drain system is just a waste of time and money. Even with microbes spending more than the price of a good airstone and pump is a waste.

 

[PetFlora]

Just as an FYI. You really do not need ANY dissolved oxygen in the nutrient solution in a flood and drain system. The entire theory behind flood and drain is that the flood drives out the stale air from the roots and the drain pulls fresh air to the roots. The roots get their oxygen directly from the air not the water like in DWC.

I started running flood and drain with aeration in the res then stopped. The only difference was more stable ph without aeration. Absolutely no difference in yield.

I recently started to aerate the reservoir again because I started using Mammoth P and it requires aeration as it is microbes. So, unless you're running some type of beneficial microbes, aerating a flood and drain system is just a waste of time and money. Even with microbes spending more than the price of a good airstone and pump is a waste.

Yes, conventional "wisdom" tells us that, but where is the data to show/prove that more is/isn't beneficial?

So, I am left to extrapolate from my HPA days, where a fine nutrient mist is sprayed into the root chamber @~ 100psi, filling the chamber with a ~ 50 micron mist. Believe me, there is absolutely no comparison to roots from F & D, DWC/RDWC. Now it could be because the pressure and tiny mist heads create much finer/smaller DO which is then more bioavailable that cotton candy root hairs develop that are the size of basketballs, which provides quantum levels more surface area, yada,yada, yada

So, Im betting my own money that there is more to the story than conventional wisdom presents.

 

[RockinRobot]

In HPA the roots are still pulling the oxygen from the air not the nutrient solution. The finer mist simply means the roots don't get as waterlogged as with LPA.

 

[PetFlora]

In HPA the roots are still pulling the oxygen from the air not the nutrient solution. The finer mist simply means the roots don't get as waterlogged as with LPA.

it's the air under pressure, combined with hpa mist heads that I assume makes the difference by presenting the roots with a much higher levels of bioavailable DO than other hydro methods

 

[RockinRobot]

Either way you won't see any measurable difference in a flood and drain system with or without oxygenated reservoir. I have proven this myself over and over with clones from 2 different strains. Having the reservoir oxygenated for the short amount of time the plants are actually flooded makes no noticeable difference.

So my point is, since it isn't even needed, spending massive cash on gadgets to boost a factor that won't gain you anything is simply lunacy.

If you have so much cash to waste, then waste it on things that actually have a chance of improving something. Like better climate control, better ph/ec control and better lighting. Look at your limiting factors and improve them first.

I might understand you trying to add extra DO if you were in DWC but in Flood and drain it's not even close to your limiting factor.

 

[PetFlora]

Either way you won't see any measurable difference in a flood and drain system with or without oxygenated reservoir. I have proven this myself over and over with clones from 2 different strains. Having the reservoir oxygenated for the short amount of time the plants are actually flooded makes no noticeable difference.

So my point is, since it isn't even needed, spending massive cash on gadgets to boost a factor that won't gain you anything is simply lunacy.

If you have so much cash to waste, then waste it on things that actually have a chance of improving something. Like better climate control, better ph/ec control and better lighting. Look at your limiting factors and improve them first.

I might understand you trying to add extra DO if you were in DWC but in Flood and drain it's not even close to your limiting factor.

I do appreciate your personal experience, but...

My own experience starting seedlings this grow indicates that using hpa mist heads, even on a low pressure pump, produce far superior root systems then using 4 @ 4" disc air stones

The O2Grow 2020 is the likely product @ $300 with 2 emitters. There are several documented institutional studies on their site, which I have not yet read

There are a good number of YT videos proving that nanobubble DO restores polluted ponds/lakes/lagoons... well worth checking out

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[PetFlora]

I tried this in the past to disastrous results, but now they have better application informationI just added 20oz of 2200 ppm and it barely changed the ppms in my 2+ gallon rez.

https://seaagri.com/hydroponics-application/?v=7516fd43adaa

 

[PetFlora]

The cola on the left under the SPYDR will come down later today. One cola from her was cut on the 20th, and is hanging (last picture). The one of the right still needs a few days

Both plants under the Amare SE 250 probably 5-7 more days

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[PetFlora]

While I removed the plant on the left under the SPYDR 2 days ago, I left it in the dark until this morning.

The larger bottom half goes to my led biz partner.

Here's the whole cola + trimmed top

The other 3 plants have 1-2 weeks left



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[PetFlora]

Thought you would like to see the root ball from the plant I took down yesterday

Not a lot of roots, BUT, with 1-2 hour flood cycles, the roots don’t need to go ‘in search of’

Importantly, not how delicate the roots are, which mans tons of root hairs

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[PetFlora]

I started adding back using only SEA 90 minerals (1 tsp/G= 850ppm) since 6/16 @ ~ one gallon every other say in each of the 2 rezes. I noticed a brief increase in new pistils, but also a quickening of older pistis to turning red

It looks like the 3 remaining plants have < 7 days to go

 

[PetFlora]

This morning I was on the john, thumbing through my Emerald Harvest Nutrient catalog. Since I am in late flower, I went to the the 3 flowering additives; Honey Chome (almost out), Emerald Goddess (not green), and King Kola (which is)

I asked myself why the F aren't you adding these to the SEA 90 minerals? Correcting now

LEDs don't Penetrate? This is so often said, by ignorant people. I have a cola on the very bottom of one plant, (under the Amare Technology SE 250) that is so heavy, it is lying on the tote lid (see ic) the light is 43" above this cola. I just cut it: 12"!

I took pics inside each rez showing my waterfalls which are on a separate pump and timer which cycles every 1.8 hours so that when the 2 hour flood cycle engages, the nutrient solution has lots of DO. My dumbass forgot how strong the fountain spray is, so had a bit of clean up outside the rez

The last picture is from the SPYDR 600

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[PetFlora]

Started slow chopping the large female under the 600. I pollinated one branch a good while back looks like there are some seed pods

The tiles are 12 x12"

Gonna be a nice haul

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[PetFlora]

About an hour ago I turned off the SPYDR over the remaining plant. FYI I chopped only the lowest branches. There's still a good bit to harvest.

I also turned off the CoBs over the other 2 plants

 

[PetFlora]

About an hour ago I turned off the 2 pumps to the plant under the SPYDR 600. Gonna harvest the rest of her tomorrow

Here's a cool system, especially the pots, which would solve a problem I have dealt with with my DIY storage totes, which is not getting all the nutrient out after each flood. I tilt the totes toward the drain plug, but there is still too much left.

The system can also be used for other medium

A complete 6 bucket system is ~ $540 + free shipping

Since I already have pumps and timers Ill get the 6pak https://greenenvysupply.com/product/oxygen-pot-systems-super-flow-6-site-expansion-kit/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0gvWzpcDpY

 

[PetFlora]

Happy 4th, though Im not feeling as Independent as we should be today. No matter your politics, we can agree that big brother is not only watching, but ramping up its game. If you think its been bad, wait until thy roll out 5G

I pulled the rest of the plant out this morning after 4-5 days in the dark and no water since about 6pm yesterday: probably should have done that for 24 hours. Pics later

 

[PetFlora]

It took a couple hours to trim, but feels so satisfying when done

The gray tiles are 17" diagonally. Actual WET weight is 241 gms, again, that's just the main cola after harvesting a fair amount off large cola lower branches ~ 5 days prior (see earlier pictures)

I didn't weigh them but guessing ~ 200gms wet. I mention this is in advance of you seeing the root pictures.

It seems there's big dick concept that you need big roots to grow big plants. Well, I wouldn't call these 'big' plants, but the correlation seems skewed to me. I mean would you think 450gms WET could be grown from such a small root ball? But this is consistent with my current F & D system, which is about to get a new set of buckets. Could my side drain DIY totes be an issue to better grows?

Probably 5 more days to harvest the other 2 plants

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