GR's Winter 2016 Vertical Grow!

[gr866]

Hello everyone, after a mainly failed attempt at vertical on the last grow, I am here to give it another shot. Hopefully I have learned from some of my mistakes and this grow will be a success.

Made a few changes in setup.

Still running in the 4x4x6.5 Gorilla Grow Tent Lite.

Changed the size of the screens, 40"x21" and the overall height of the screen and stand is 54".


The distance from the light can vary depending of the direction the screen are placed, this direction allows me to get as close as 14" to the light with a max distance of 20".


While if it is turned around the distance would be 17" and a max of 23"

Any suggestions?

They should be completed tomorrow, need to pick up some orange safety net.

Canna Coco w/A&B nutes, will be running a little lower than the custom recommendations calls for, until comfortable with the levels.

Watering system is gravity fed Blumats, the reservoirs (10 gallon primary and 14 gallon secondary) have been moved into an adjacent room, constant temp control w/circulation between reservoirs.

12" 3 speed fan blowing vertical and a secondary fan as needed.

6" Can filter and 6" Vortex exhaust fan with an Ideal Air Variable speed controller. Air is drawn into the room via a 6" duct from an adjacent room will be able to heat or cool as needed. Air exits via ducting into the garage.

The biggest change is in the lighting, going to stack a 315W CMH above a 400W HPS. Was going to go with a 600/400W HPS stacked combo, but my Hydro guy had a demo 315 that he had used for just a couple of weeks, was too bright in the tent he had it in. Anyway got it very very cheap, and a new Phillips bulb. Heck as I was checking out I got a jar of RapidStart and extension cable for the lamp, he ask me what did he quote me on the lamp, I told him and he said that would cover the extra items also. Like that guy.
Here is a pic of the lamp stand for the 400W HPS finished today.


Changing the height of the lamp will be done by changing the lengths of the 4 lamp braces, noted by the red arrows. I use a lot of PVC pipe in my biz and have tons of scrap from each job, so I will cut lengths at 2" progression. Should work well.


Last but not least are the beans, ordered 5 Barney Farms G13 Haze Fems. I expect my seeds to arrive by Friday.
Going to veg 4 weeks, not sure what light I will veg under. I have a 400W MH but have heard good things about the Philips, its 4200K so it can we used to veg and flower. Any suggestions?

It's good to be back, I have been following the grows and am seeing many successes. You guys are good.
Suggestions are always welcome, especially if it will save me a buck in the long run. I only grow for my own medicine, it's a good thing with the luck I have had of late I would starve if I were trying to sell. LOL.

GR

 

[Mr. Miyagi]

Oooh... I was wondering where you were hiding...

Subbing for the ride.

Last run was not a FAIL dude.... it was a learning curve... brush your shoulders off and get to work.

I will give whatever advice I have... I'm throwing the idea around about going back vert VERY soon, just need to make room!!

 

[Mr. Miyagi]

I've had vert plants VERY close to bulbs, like within 12 inches! They can take it, if they're hardened up to it, and if there's enough air flow to prevent burning.
For a 400, (715 collectively) I think 23" is a bit far...BUT I'm not sure about the CMH, I could've swore they were supposed to be further away like the LECs and Gavitas and whatnot. (Don't hold me to that) But is so, having the CMH on top of the HPS would be best, that way the plants further back get a better chance to utilize said bulb.

Also, get yourself some Cal/Mag and some H&G Dripclean...you'll thank me later! Not only does it help lower your nute usage, it also helps keep lines clean. I'm an avid Canna A&B user, and I went from using roughly 1200ppm in full bloom, to 600-700 using Drip Clean... I pushed it to 850 last week and got tip burn lol....and they are looking LOVELY.

You'll likely need Cal/Mag also... I hadn't used it in awhile, but after I got it, i remember why I needed it. I have yet to use their Coco, but it couldn't hurt.

1 thing I've learned with Canna nutes too in a res, is don't aerate it...you'll throw ph outta whack fairly quickly...you a small pump to keep it moving, or a waterfall effect or something. If it get stagnate too long, you can end up with slime build up, or hazing, which could clog up the Blumats....

Hope this helps!

Ciao!

 

[gr866]

I've had vert plants VERY close to bulbs, like within 12 inches! They can take it, if they're hardened up to it, and if there's enough air flow to prevent burning.
For a 400, (715 collectively) I think 23" is a bit far...BUT I'm not sure about the CMH, I could've swore they were supposed to be further away like the LECs and Gavitas and whatnot. (Don't hold me to that) But is so, having the CMH on top of the HPS would be best, that way the plants further back get a better chance to utilize said bulb.

Also, get yourself some Cal/Mag and some H&G Dripclean...you'll thank me later! Not only does it help lower your nute usage, it also helps keep lines clean. I'm an avid Canna A&B user, and I went from using roughly 1200ppm in full bloom, to 600-700 using Drip Clean... I pushed it to 850 last week and got tip burn lol....and they are looking LOVELY.

You'll likely need Cal/Mag also... I hadn't used it in awhile, but after I got it, i remember why I needed it. I have yet to use their Coco, but it couldn't hurt.

1 thing I've learned with Canna nutes too in a res, is don't aerate it...you'll throw ph outta whack fairly quickly...you a small pump to keep it moving, or a waterfall effect or something. If it get stagnate too long, you can end up with slime build up, or hazing, which could clog up the Blumats....

Hope this helps!

Ciao!

Hey bud, good to see you here, you always offer sound advice.
I will have the 315 above the 400W and will have to play with the distance. My last run the 400W was 13 to 17 inches, I can get them to the 14" mark, maybe after hardening.


Yes I do use Drip Clean at the recommended rate. And thanks for the info on the aeration, I did not a big drift in the pH last run with airstones.

On the canna web site they with Canna nutes and CannaCoco you don't need Cal-Mag, have always used it in the past.

I plugged in the numbers for the Canna grow guide and used the lite setting. I may back off that some until flower the raise to their recommended rates, do you have any thoughts about this.
I will not be using Canna rizotonic (will be replacing with a dry rizo product mixed with the coco and added to the nute solution) Will not be using Canna boost, and for the PK 13-14 I will be using liquid KoolBloom, as I have that product on hand.
That is about it for now, just waiting on the seeds. Still finishing the setup, got screens complete, need an extension cord for the 315, moving the ballast up under the filter or out of the tent altogether. The 400W ballast is already setup outside the tent. Will mix the dry rizo product today.

GR

 

[Mr. Miyagi]

I usually only use the A&B, sporadically use the PK13/14... I did use on the soon to chop run only because I had it on hand. I have yet to use any other amendments with the exception of Molasses.... started used Green Goddess a lil over a week ago...seems to be an improvement. I only recommended the Cal/Mag because every so often in past grows I've needed it, and it helped them bounce back almost instantly.... mind you I've been rocking Botanicares Coco for years... have yet to use Canna's... Thinking about doing a side-by-side when I can.


regarding feeding, start low. as I said mine were in full bloom at ~650, and look sexy as hell... I was around 500ppm til about the 3rd or 4th week into flower. best thing I can say, is start LOW like 3-400..and watch the plants... if they need more they'll tell ya...and quickly lol.

Ciao!

 

[gr866]

I usually only use the A&B, sporadically use the PK13/14... I did use on the soon to chop run only because I had it on hand. I have yet to use any other amendments with the exception of Molasses.... started used Green Goddess a lil over a week ago...seems to be an improvement. I only recommended the Cal/Mag because every so often in past grows I've needed it, and it helped them bounce back almost instantly.... mind you I've been rocking Botanicares Coco for years... have yet to use Canna's... Thinking about doing a side-by-side when I can.


regarding feeding, start low. as I said mine were in full bloom at ~650, and look sexy as hell... I was around 500ppm til about the 3rd or 4th week into flower. best thing I can say, is start LOW like 3-400..and watch the plants... if they need more they'll tell ya...and quickly lol.

Ciao!

Thanks Bud,

Good info and yes I do plan on starting low and keeping them fed on as lean a diet as possible.
That was my plan on the last grow but as you remember, Shit Happened, LOL

I am set up just awaiting the beans. Will be adding the GH Subculture M, Mycorrhizal Inoculant, to the Canna Coco tonight at a rate of 2 tbl per bag of coco. Then get it into the 2 gallon smart pots and ready for the plants after about 15 days growth in solo's. After transplanting in the 2 gal pots they will get a drenching with the Subculture M weekly until they go into 12/12.

Thanks again,

GR

Setup less the 315 CMH, waiting for extension cord from ballast to light, moving the ballast out of the tent.



As you can see I have about 6 plus inches that I can move the plants further away from the lights as needed. At present they sit about 14" from the lamp. So I should be able to move them back to around 20 plus inches.

 

[gr866]

Well I guess my seed order is lost, been 25+ working days. Will call and get it reshipped tomorrow.

So, I have planted 4 Pyramid Seeds White Widow, that were send by mistake from my last seed order. I also planted 1 Pyramid NL and 1 Super Citrus Haze. Only one WW has emerged at this point.
All seeds were soaked 24 hrs. in pH RO/tap (16/
3 ratio) with .25 rate of Rapid Roots, put in damp paper towels for about 36 hrs and then plant directly in coco in solo cups.

I am 4 weeks behind in my grow so harvest will be later that planned. I will be going into town tomorrow to my Hydro shop to pick up a cord I ordered and some deep trays to place the screens. I am hoping he found me another 315 at the same price I got the other, saved over $200 on my last 315.

GR

 

[Bush Dr]

How are you cooling the top lamp?

If you're hoping the fan at the base will work it won't and you'll have to move the plants away from the lamp, which given the inverse square law is very counterproductive, you want them as close as you can

I run 600s in 4'sq tents, vertical and have a 16" tubular 'scorch' screen with a 12" fan on maximum speed suspended at the base of each one

Like this I can put my hand 5-6" from the lamp and not feel much

I make my screens out of chicken wire mesh and suspend them using chains and caribieners, so it's easy to unclip and move it up or down as you desire

You can see from the chart just how much distance effects light



Hey MrM ...get washed up here too

 

[gr866]

How are you cooling the top lamp?

If you're hoping the fan at the base will work it won't and you'll have to move the plants away from the lamp, which given the inverse square law is very counterproductive, you want them as close as you can

I run 600s in 4'sq tents, vertical and have a 16" tubular 'scorch' screen with a 12" fan on maximum speed suspended at the base of each one

Like this I can put my hand 5-6" from the lamp and not feel much

I make my screens out of chicken wire mesh and suspend them using chains and caribieners, so it's easy to unclip and move it up or down as you desire

You can see from the chart just how much distance effects light

[URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=70848&pictureid=1686886&thumb=1]View Image[/url]

Hey MrM ...get washed up here too

Hey Bud, thanks for stopping by, advice is always welcome!
How about some pics? Are you running a vert scrog or tying plants back to the screen?
I have not run 315's before but understand they are much cooler than the 400W, I had my fan under the lamp and had no heat problems, so really don't expect it this run. I will have the ballast outside the tent so only heat will be from the lamp.
From others who have run the 315's they say heat is not a problem. I guess we shall see.

Thanks man,

GR

 

[Bush Dr]

No SCROG, just 4 plants growing in the corners

Like this

 

[gr866]

No SCROG, just 4 plants growing in the corners

Like this

View Image

Plants look gr8 bud, hard to tell from the pic but are you binding them at all or just rotating them? I have only use my screens and bound them to the screens

I think you may have misunderstood me on my lights, the bottom light will be a 400W HPS but the top light will be a 315W CMH and both lamp ballast are located outside the tent. I have had no problem cooling the tent. I would like to see a chart like the one you posted on 315W CMH lighting.

Merry Christmas
GR

 

[Bush Dr]

The only thing I tie them to is a bamboo stake or support the buds with string

Rotating them is counterproductive, I've tried it, just fold all the branches in towards the light

I've had some huge and ripe buds finish shaded by the rest of the plant, as long as the plant itself is getting plenty of light, the buds will take care of themselves

 

[gr866]

Ok, so here I am. Planned grow and ordered seeds, seeds did not show, so reordered seeds. Each time is 25 working days before they send replacement seeds.
I have run out of time and will have to go with what I got as I only have 3.5 months to finish. This will give me 3-4 weeks of veg and 9 to 10 weeks of flower which the SLH needs, the WW should be ready after 6 to 8 weeks.

I had some old freebies WW and one of each NL and SLH, so I started them a few weeks back. Only one WW and the the Super Citrus Haze sprouted.
So they were just transplanted yesterday from solo's to one gallon pots in coco. Question, how long do I need to after transplanting again into two to three gallon smart pots before I start flower? I will be giving them at least 3 weeks in the one gallon pots.

Ok, now for the other question. I had planned to do a 5 plant Vertical Screen grow but now with only two plants am unsure how to grow them. I don't have the time to veg them for a scrog so I am thinking just as bushes. Maybe hang both lights to either side of the plants,

0
X X
0
Or hand both lights vert and rotate plants, don't think this would work all that well. Or I could put the reflector back on grow the two under that lamp and move the 400 from one side to the other. Or, ???????

Any ideas guys, this is not a contest and would really like some suggestions.

Thanks

GR

 

[gr866]

Ok trying this see how it works.

What ya think?

SS400 LED slanted and the 315W slanted the opposite direction, about 20" from the plants.

 

[gr866]

Told that the two lights was too much, I kind of thought that at this time. So I removed the LED, but will add it back before I go into 12/12.


GR

 

[gr866]

Well I finely got my seeds order, 5 G13, 5 LSD, 5 freebie Blueberry, and 2 freebie Train Wreck. Since my window for growing now is short I will not be starting any of these until I return from my spring trip.
So I only have the two plants that were planted late December but have some size to them now. They are grown in straight coco, and were just transplanted from the 1 gallon pots into 3 gallon Smart Pots. I will not be doing a vertical grow with these plants so I am going to shut this thread down and move to the Coco section. going to give them another 10 days or so veg before going 12/12.
So I have had a strange week, on Monday morning I was awaken by a damn loud shrieking coming from my tent. The fan bearing failed. The fan had only be in use since last fall, one grow. I went into town to the Hydro store and they call the Co. which is sending a new one. In the mean time I am running a 4" that I have used for years, not enough for the 4x4 but keeping tent open from 6am to 11pm then the lights go out for 6 hrs at 12am so the heat build up is minimal.
Ok so I got the fan installed and was up and running again when yesterday I am reading in the livingroom and I heard a loud crack. Went to the tent room and my 315W died, changed the bulb, from the 4200K to the 3100K and nope it was not the bulb. Pulled all that down and installed my SS400 LED. Headed into town in a few minutes to get a replacement.
I am still hand watering and will continue this until just before I go 12/12 then install the blumats or go auto with drippers.

GR

 

[gr866]

Since I am not doing a vert this grow I have move to Growin in Coco. I will see you vert folks in the summer. Thanks for the info.