Growing all red question.

[SonnynGeechi]

They already have smd ribbons.

http://www.alibaba.com/trade/search?fsb=y&IndexArea=product_en&CatId=&SearchText=smd+ribbons

So we could us a single point light at the top the drape the tree with smd ribbons like a christmas tree....................

You guys need to stop hating on single point lighting, Remember everything has its advantages and disadvantages. Don't forget that HPS are still kicking ass as a single point light source. No reason a high power multi chip smd would not do the same and more likely better.

 

[SonnynGeechi]

Ok check me out

500watt @660 smdled - 185
100watt @415 smdled - 85
265 with shipping

19lb aluminum heatsink
205 shipped

500 and 100 watt led diver
100 shipped

Not bad aye. I could always get more 500watt leds in the future. Light intensity does play a factor just as well as light coverage. The light maximun light intensity of 5 100watt light sources will not reach the max of 1 500watt light source. once again, disadvantages and advantages.

 

[medmaker420]

what sort of spread do you expect based on your research so far on these?

can't wait for the pics later on down the road growing some plants.

awesome stuff

 

[SonnynGeechi]

Well the leds I've been able to get at good price have a viewing angle of 140 degrees.

I have a deep freezer or a plastic storage bin both roughly 3ft by 2ft...... One of them will be the apparatus used to do either a aero, dwc or nft style setup. I am trying to not have to use a chiller. So I think the coolest running op would be a nft running an airlift pump. I really want to run areo if its possible without a chiller. I guess I could put frozen 2 liters in in reservoir...Not certain.

 

[Azeotrope]

Though I am not an LED believer in general for anything other than maybe micro grows due to their lack of FULL spectrum coverage I thought I'd share a link that has some info on some studies done with all red versus red/bule verusus red/blue/green combos.

http://hortsci.ashspublications.org/content/43/7/1951.full

 

[SonnynGeechi]

"LED believer in general for anything other than maybe micro grows due to their lack of FULL spectrum coverage"

This information is Completely and easily accessible. There is not a spectrum of light that LEDS can't do, that HPS or metal halide can do. You can get a 10k led or a 2100k led.

I trust nasa over hear say

http://www.plantcell.org/content/17/4/1120.full

 

[Azeotrope]

I work with LED lighting regularily on a commercial lighting platform(s). The number of driver failures (every make, brand) and color rendition issues is enormous. They are beneficial in terms of heat load, re-lamp and fixture weight reduction in refrigerated fixtures, same with street lighting and so on, but reliability of the hardware is still poor. They also suffer greatly if heat disipation is not sufficient. Worse than traditional HID and Flouro tech. To design a fixture that will produce a spectral coverage/output and match photon production all the way accross like the newest CDM bulbs is a worthless effort at this point.

People have been wildly brainwashed in large parts to believe that only certain parts of the spectrum are worth producing for plant growth when in actuality, plants use it all and you can not honestly claim that you can do it with LED lighting and match photon production all throughout.

Not going to jump in to your forums and pick a fight! This is a better to agree to disagree issue I think, I just was trying to provide you believers with some info I stumbled on that was related to your world of LEDs.

Regards and well wishes! Azeo

 

[hempfield]

Ok check me out

500watt @660 smdled - 185
100watt @415 smdled - 85
265 with shipping

19lb aluminum heatsink
205 shipped

500 and 100 watt led diver
100 shipped

Not bad aye. I could always get more 500watt leds in the future. Light intensity does play a factor just as well as light coverage. The light maximun light intensity of 5 100watt light sources will not reach the max of 1 500watt light source. once again, disadvantages and advantages.

I just wait to see that built and running !

 

[SonnynGeechi]

Thanks for the input. If anyone has been brainwashed its Nasa? In the document I posted about it suggest that red/blue light combo outperformed natural white light. What do you make of this? Why are they spending all this money experimenting with red and blue? This isnt a fight, even if I act all arrogant and what ever. That's just my discussion style. If you have anything else to ad as well as anyone else please join in.

 

[SonnynGeechi]

hemp you just wonna get a good laugh at my failure when I grow these weird looking red light plants....

 

[SonnynGeechi]

Azeo that link you post, I am slow to read for one, I've been looking at scientific documents for the last 10 hours with like 3 hours of sleep. It said one very interesting thing.
" The biomass produced per kilowatt hour of energy consumed was more efficient for cowpea grown with intracanopy lighting than for stands grown with overhead lighting but all other conditions equivalent"

It shows a pick of plants with over head lighting and then another with these light bar looking things. This is still neither here no there regarding using narrow band lighting versus full spectrum.

Everyone one is quick to reference nature and how full spectrum is more natural. Doing this is pretty ignorant unless an argument of actually experience is made. Ever heard of hydroponics ? Yeah thats really really natural. Where do I go in nature to find the marijuana plants suspended in water with no soil? Or maybe there's some natural areoponic's going on,,,,right next natural marijuana nft....

 

[SonnynGeechi]

another point id like to make. Look a the temps of this 500watt led and heatsink combo.

http://twfuhai.en.alibaba.com/produc...eat_sinks.html

You could put that 500watt led pretty close to your plants. Thats only in theory, as far as I know that 500watts of light emitting down might be pretty intense radiation wise........


you aint gonne be able to do this with a 500watt ceramic metal halide.

 

[tenthirty]

To design a fixture that will produce a spectral coverage/output and match photon production all the way accross like the newest CDM bulbs is a worthless effort at this point.

Not worthless, but damn hard, and you really have to know what you are doing.
Leds are good for steering morphology! (not cheap)

People have been wildly brainwashed in large parts to believe that only certain parts of the spectrum are worth producing for plant growth when in actuality, plants use it all and you can not honestly claim that you can do it with LED lighting and match photon production all throughout.

Nothing produces the number of photons better than a plasma. (now)
Growing with a limited or unbalanced spectrum will cause undesirable results.

By manipulating spectrum and VPD,
the way a given plant expresses itself can be manipulated to quite a large degree.

But go out of design parameters, and shit will hit the fan!

A well designed luminaire with the proper "action spectrum" properly designed for a well made "growth chamber", is really the key here.
All the pieces have to fit together.

The real question is........
what is the proper action spectrum.

All red is not the answer!

 

[SonnynGeechi]

well according to Nasa its Red with a hint of blue....

 

[hempfield]

hemp you just wonna get a good laugh at my failure when I grow these weird looking red light plants....

I'm more interested in the technical part of the building rather than in the growing experiment and I also know that a plant will perform much better in full spectrum rather than on narrow band wavelength light, so the results is somehow foreseeable.

another point id like to make. Look a the temps of this 500watt led and heatsink combo.

http://twfuhai.en.alibaba.com/produc...eat_sinks.html

You could put that 500watt led pretty close to your plants. Thats only in theory, as far as I know that 500watts of light emitting down might be pretty intense radiation wise........


you aint gonne be able to do this with a 500watt ceramic metal halide.

Indeed, because LEDs do not emit directly near infrared. But this create another question : how high (or low) should you place the 300W or 500W to get optimal irradiation from them, as they spread the light in a 160 degrees angle (the higher the power, the wider the angle), which is extremely wide to assure optimal energy for the plants.

You just gave me an idea for a ... revolutionary design !!!

 

[SonnynGeechi]

Why are people so concerned with the wide view angle of one 500watt led when 180 degrees of light of any given HPS is pointing completely AWAY from the plants........thats with over head lighting of course.

 

[Azeotrope]

Sonny - I will agree largely with what tenthirty posted. "worthless" was a little strong.

We are working with a plant that produces many different terpines and there is still a large quantity of 'unknown' regarding plant response to each and every nm. Seems to me that your best bet is to consider that plants have evolved over millions if not billions of years under the sun. These plants also have a large gene pool full of unkowns and unpredictable expressions. As a mechanical engineer, I think outside of the box all the time, but on this one, I say the sun and mill/billions of years are a pretty solid background to work with. Get as close to that as you can indoors, tweak it ever so slightly as it is hard to completely/exactly duplicate and let the genetics play out. Nasa was measuring production of tissue and a few other factors. Did they tell you if the oils, nutrient contents, flavinoids, anti-oxidants or any other characteristics changed or differed from plants grown under full spectrum? Maybe I missed it, but that study, I have not seen.....

I do know that over the decades, I have witnessed a lot of growers trying to out-produce organic soil and in reality organic soil can keep up with every method out there. How? Just replicate nature. BTW - I am one of those who have tried. I have also witnessed HPS growers fight every pest and complication you can imagine... Since my switch to full spectrum CMH years ago, I have not had one moment of plant illness, pest or poor growth.

At any rate, I knew this would happen so, now you know my thoughts and we can go on about our business knowing that I really and honestly hope you are sucessfull in your growing endeavours and life in general.

Regards,

Azeotrope

 

[SonnynGeechi]

I'm just playing devils advocate take it easy...I like your replies. I can't help it if i do a grrrrreat job of it? So your mechanical engineer huh? So of course you have a degree meaning you went to college. You went to the box and they taught you how to think outside of it? really? I'm just poking fun!

I don't see how I can't get the same spectrum from an led vs a CMH. From what I've read aeroponics is leaps and bounds more bountiful than soil. Anyone got a spectrum analysis of these high acclaimed CMH's?

 

[tenthirty]

Like this!

 

[xmobotx]

and FTMP; w LEDs we can imitate a spectral curve such as the CMH curve above ~somewhere theres that site that lets you configure the bars w/ whatever diodes u want and it has an interactive gadget the generates a spectrum for that config

the difficulty w LEDs is not what you can do w them so much as what you should do ~since that precise plant spectrum would differ for differing plants

i.e. different results were recorded using differing plants in the nasa tests ~a big consideration tho; nasa is trying to figure out the minimum weight/energy solution to produce effective bio-mass ~understandably seeing as the research pertains to long-term space flight and possible multi-generational one way trips ~they would likely employ multiple differing arrays as considerations would be different for leafy crops, root crops, and fruiting crops

i dont recall them doing much as far as fruiting crops