Growing all red question.

[hempfield]

OK back on topic. Does anyone have any examples of an all red led grow of marijuana. And I am talking about SMD LEDS not the epoxy capped leds which are inferior to HPS in efficiency.


If not. Get ready cause I am going to be the one to do it I guess. 500watts of pure 660nm light coming from a SMD LED diode that is about 3inches by inches attacked to a heatsink that is 19lbs..............lmao

I think you made a little confusion saying that epoxy capped leds are bad and SMD LEDs are good.

SMD stands for Surface Mount Device and designates all the electronic components that can be mounted right on the surface of the PCB (by soldering) without need for pins or terminals, simplifying the process of mounting.

All 1w and 3W LEDs have epoxy domes on top, and the dome is filled with a transparent silicon gel which help to bond the dome to the LED itself.

The general problem with 5mm or 10mm epoxy capped LEDs is the low power consumption which mean a much lower light flux. Of course, this types of LEDs where not designed to burn more than 200mW (but you can find 10mm LEDs rated to 1W or even 2W), but in a proper configuration they could be used to grow plants. You will need thousand of them to achieve the same light flux , increasing the costs also, but is not impossible.

Again, all chinese cheap "LEDs" are not actually LEDs, but matrix of 1W or 3W chips mounted directly on top of the aluminium heat sink , and they are not SMD. If you show me how you could mount a 300W LED array in SMD configuration (using a reflow soldering system) I will eat that "LED" and the PCB also.

I agree that is much simple to use high power LED array to achieve the same power, but the problem of cooling increases when the surface of the LED decreases.

There is another aspect much people don't know about this LED arrays: the size of the LED chip (which vary from 28 to 45 mil) . The bigger the size of the chips , the bigger the light flux on the same current and the longer the life of the chip/array.

It would be nice to see 300W or 500W LED arrays that incorporates several wavelength chips : blue, red, white, in the same manner the light panels on the market are build. I believe we will see this kind of LED array soon on the market.

Reading this thread a new idea came into my mind : what about growing all blue ? It's obvious the plant will thrive on veg state, but what about of flowering ? (For sure we should see some very leafy buds)

 

[SonnynGeechi]

http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/62...d_2_years.html

"It would be nice to see 300W or 500W LED arrays that incorporates several wavelength chips : blue, red, white, in the same manner the light panels on the market are build. I believe we will see this kind of LED array soon on the market."

Its already being done. One my led sales as been trying to get me to add different colors on the chip.

I already studied all blue, they compared the amount of c02 consumed and all red did better.

http://spot.colorado.edu/~basey/bluer.htm

 

[SonnynGeechi]

omg I hate not being able to edit post. "one of my led salesman has been try......"

 

[luvdemshrooms]

and why can't I edit my post!

For some odd reason the site requires that you have 50 posts before you can edit your posts.

 

[SonnynGeechi]

I always post then edit.....not working out for meh!

so your telling me this is not a SMD led?
http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/628753641/300w_high_power_led_2_years.html

and no I will not let you eat mine...........

 

[WeedIsGod]

hempfield: You can contact manufacturers on Alibaba who are willing to make high wattage, multichip LED's with your desired spectra. The problem is it is expensive to have them apply phosphor to only the Blue dice, and they either have to under drive Blues (if wired in series with Red, 100W has 10 parallel lines of 10 dice in series) or you have to change your ratios so everything is running optimally. I'm with you on this, though, it'd be pretty awesome, imo. I'm working on making my own (just 100W) right now, actually, I'm just waiting for sufficient funds, and sorta weighing the pros and cons of just buying a 100W Warm White and supplementing it with 10-20W 660nm.

Why not just Blue? You're pulling our leg, right?

Interesting read:
http://www.plantphysiol.org/content/157/3/1528.full?sid=ff680d71-27f2-4166-8cd3-c17d03c265b4
So adding light (Green) can actually make the plant think it's in a shaded environment, when it's under a perfectly adequate amount of light already? Gtfo. Sort of goes to show how important the correct spectral distribution really is, I've got no idea what my plants are thinking.

Sonny: It doesn't look SMD to me.

 

[SonnynGeechi]

I read this about chlorophyll b "It is an accessory pigment and acts indirectly in photosynthesis by transferring the light it absorbs to chlorophyll a"

So I'm like yep Chloro A is where its at, screw the rest.

And you say this not a smd chip? Its advertised and being sold as a SMD chip... let research this and see.


Oh yeah, thanks for nerding it up with my guys/

 

[SonnynGeechi]

Yall crazy, it most certainly is a smd.

 

[SonnynGeechi]

Another study found that the rate of photosynthesis occurred fastest in red light and that the reason for this was because xanthophylls were dissipating the excess energy associated with blue light (Brins et. al. 2000). One possible explanation for our results is that due to the high-energy nature of blue light, some of the blue light shining onto the juniper needles is absorbed by plant pigments other than the chlorophylls and is not transferred to the photosynthetic reactions. Xanthophylls and carotenes are possibly dissipating the high-energy blue light because xanthophylls and carotenes absorb only in the blue spectrum.

Now see I hypothesized this by looking at the spectrum chart for photosynthesis. I don't anyone has tried to saturate plants with intense red light yet....Since red light is low energy maybe upping the wattage is the key?

 

[WeedIsGod]

Just do a Google image search for "smd led." Not a multichip LED in sight. The solder tabs are also not surface mount, dude, you have to solder wires to those terminals... or get tricky on us just to be a stickler.

http://twfuhai.en.alibaba.com/produ...OWERTEK_500W_LED_LIGHTING_led_heat_sinks.html
Omfg... that's a 500W heat sink?

No idea, man, I think we're going to be hard pressed to find actual saturation graphs of various wavelengths. Grow under a 500W 660nm and tell us if you get 500g, though!

 

[SonnynGeechi]

There's multiple smd leds on that chip! And yeah thats the size of heatsink your looking for 500watts. I can't find them any cheaper than 200usd shipped.

 

[SonnynGeechi]

I keep finding this " Under normal conditions, availability of CO2 is the limiting factor. " in regards the light saturation point.

 

[Phychotron]

And Omg first of all the black star has epoxy cap leds no wonder they suck. First learn the difference between smd and epoxy capped leds. Then come to realization that only an uneducated idiot would buy epoxy capped leds to grow plants with. The other one, the diamond series, they look like epoxy capped leds as well. I figure if they where smd leds they would have specified so I assume they are the same crappy expoxy capped leds they have in the ufo and every other crappy led system out their. If it aint SMD LED it is NOT the leds that they are talking about when they boast about Leds being as efficient or more efficient than HPS. So since I know that you didnt know that now I am skeptical towards you and your knowledge =(

When they talk about Leds replacing HPS and the like, They meant leds like this

You can't tell a diodes specifications by the way the outside looks in a photo on the internet. The blackstars actually work alright, but they're made cheap without a heat sink and include 120º diodes. The DS uses secondary optics, lenses, to focus the diodes to 90º and works amazingly.

I don't think anyone who's talking about replacing hps with led is trying with single-point lighting--it's old technology and only used because it was available. The inverse square law has a lot to do with benefiting from multi-point light source. I'm pretty sure you'll never get the same coverage area watt for watt with a single point LED as HPS.

The next generation of LED lighting might be a large flexible piece of plastic that rolls into a cone and surround your plants with lights, like one of those cat/dog collars when they have a wound they aren't suppose to lick but with lights all on the inside, or like someone else mentioned in another post, like x-mas lights. The idea is that you get the light source as close to the plant as possible and the only way to do that is with multiple sources.

On a side note, you are so arrogant and ignorant that it's very hard to take your serious. Everyone here is trying to help, and you just can't hold back from telling everyone how wrong they are, yet have not chalked up any experience. Chill out and try and listen to what people with experience are saying. You might no technical aspects of LED's, that doesn't make you an expert growing with them.

 

[SonnynGeechi]

The inverse square law has a lot to do with benefiting from multi-point light source. I'm pretty sure you'll never get the same coverage area watt for watt with a single point LED as HPS.

LEds have about the same efficiency as HPS when it comes down to lumens per watt. HPS has 180 degrees of light point away from the plant below it (of course theres exceptions), And led is giving 100 percent of its light away from its self.

 

[Phychotron]

you should focus on par light, not lumens.

 

[SonnynGeechi]

well thats all the jazz, led's are killing everything else when it comes to par. You can literally create a 100% par producing light by selecting colors within the PAR range.

 

[WeedIsGod]

I think he means the same number of "Watts" of LED in the same footprint as an HPS. To match a 1kW bulb, after reflector losses that's, ?what?, 800+ Watts of LED in the same (or smaller) package as your standard cool tube? Nightmare to cool and sort of redundant if you really think about the conversation at hand (which is putting its emphasis on surrounding the plant with light as opposed to making side branches stretch for it).

 

[Phychotron]

well thats all the jazz, led's are killing everything else when it comes to par. You can literally create a 100% par producing light by selecting colors within the PAR range.

That's the idea, with a larger number of bands/white... not just the single narrow band of color. Of course getting the exact ratio down is the tricky part--its one of the reason's the blackstar is inferior to the DS, and other fixtures to others; but that's still just one of many variables. Its why the two band red/blue is out of date. It seems like your seeking to prove that you can grow a plant under one large monochromatic diode. I'm sure its possible, but its eliminating the many benefits of LED.

I'll watch the grow log when you build your light and get some plants going. How long do you think it will take before you actually get the stuff put together?

 

[medmaker420]

I like the all red idea Sonny

I have a setting on 2 of my panels so I can turn off all the blues and others spectrum and I might be testing the ALL RED versus the ALL BLU in flower.

You said you already tested all blue in flower? any data, pics or thoughts about that and how they did? I was going to be doing all blue as I wanted to see what all could be done with it BUT would love to hear how it worked out for you.

As far as growing under one led versus multi being spread, I think even the panels of "today" do not offer enough spread as they are setup incorrectly the way I see it.

I see the ufo or spotlight method making more sense versus larger panels and that is something worth looking into for sure. Spread those diodes out further and see how many RUNNING WATTS of leds are actually needed to flower out a sqft and produce DENSE meds.

 

[xmobotx]

I think even the panels of "today" do not offer enough spread as they are setup incorrectly the way I see it.

for growing; i see the future of LED as being modular maybe a series of bars and/or spots {like UFO}

the single direct light source is a fundamentally flawed concept which we have adapted to

probably the vanguard of that adaptation is the donut vertical methods and here you see the compromise; its either use some of the light to light all {most} the plant or all {most} the light to light some of the plant

heres the big marketing idea for you entrepreneurs; the modular system should be powered by a breakout box w varying lengths of socket ended wires to adapt the multiple fixtures to ones space; much like a modular PC power supply