Growers are just saying NO to pot legalization

[Burt]

in N Cali-if your not pulling at least 10 LBs from a bluedream tree-your considered a fail
many are getting upwards of 20 LBS-unless they're lying-perhaps they are but the bluedream is renowned for putting out weight and quality
what was your biggest haul off one plant Sam?

 

[Guest 88950]

... Cigarettes and alcohol are the only things in america that don't have to have the ingredients labeled on them. i feel the same thing would happen with the MJ and it would get chemicals put in it which is not a step towards freedom.
I Basically just wanted to imply that the growers who would vote no aren't all greedy and money hungry and have other aspects they are looking at.

First, i accidentally pos repped your post. was trying to quote for a response.

what ingredients should be listed in a plant. i dont remember seeing any labels on my produce.

educate me please.



White-Rhino -- dont know how to quote 2 diff post so i c&p'd it.
"<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><meta name="ProgId" content="Word.Document"><meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 9"><meta name="Originator" content="Microsoft Word 9"><link rel="File-List" href="file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/USER%7E1.HOM/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_filelist.xml"><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <woNotOptimizeForBrowser/> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><style> <!-- /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {mso-style-parent:""; margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";} a:link, span.MsoHyperlink {color:blue; text-decoration:underline; text-underline:single;} a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed {colorurple; text-decoration:underline; text-underline:single;} @page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in; mso-header-margin:.5in; mso-footer-margin:.5in; mso-paper-source:0;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </style>[FONT=&quot]If tobacco was illegal, the street price sure as hell would be less than $7 a pack. How do I know this? Because bootleg cigarettes are less than that now. If they didn't have to beat the legal price they would be even less on the blackmarket. So legalized weed might cause the price to increase to just below the legal price, which would steadilly increase rediculously every year as politicians see fit to jack up the taxes. Like cigarettes, whose going to complain? Raise property taxes or jack the pot smokers. Just like cigarettes, its a no brainer for politico.[/FONT]"

bootleg cig's were stolen so the thief who sells them to you has no $ invested in his product, just a little time and some risk.

you obviously have no clue on how a free market and capitalism works. how would the price increase when a legal Cannabis farmers can grow 10 of thousands of plants w/o fear of jail time.

I had to separate this part of your post b/c its contradictory and makes no sense.
"[FONT=&quot]So legalized weed might cause the price to increase to just below the legal price"
[/FONT]
if "legal price" is the current market price in MMJ states then i can see what your saying but i disagree that $400 oz is where the end Oz price will be once a farmer growing 10,000+ plants legally enters the market.

if your right then you better start growing your own produce b/c farmers will quit growing their govt subsidized crop and grow the $400 oz product you speak of.

 

[Guest 88950]

id vote no also, it would decrease price.
id vote yes, the increased market will still keep prices up.

i voted yes but IMO your assumption on price is wrong.

OP, since this is your thread please enlighten me how voting NO would cause the price to drop.

i just dont see it.

and for all who want to vote no step outside your bubble and look at the bigger picture. Cali blazes the trail for the rest of the country that is too narrow minded to see past govt propaganda. if this bill passes, regardless of the flaws, it is a HUGE step to replacing propaganda with common sense and truth, Cannabis isnt what the govt and religous people portray it as.

step out of Cali and into Fla or one of the other 36 states that will put your ass in jail for this plant and then see if your opinion changes. i know this bill is only referring to Cali but the rest of the us will follow in time.

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

in N Cali-if your not pulling at least 10 LBs from a bluedream tree-your considered a fail
many are getting upwards of 20 LBS-unless they're lying-perhaps they are but the bluedream is renowned for putting out weight and quality
what was your biggest haul off one plant Sam?

Less then 5 kilos.
And until you grow and say it was 10 Lbs+ dry and cleaned from one plant I doubt it to be honest, but I could be wrong as I normally don't try and get massive yields from single plants, and anything is possible, but 20 Lbs I just won't believe at all.

-SamS

 

[Gert Lush]

If you think that you will not be able to buy ultra-primo at the 7-11, or where ever the Cannabis is retailed, you are fooling yourself and don't understand agri-biz. They will find experts who know the industry to advise them. I could take any non-smoker supply them with seeds or clones and teach them in one year how to grow the finest herb on earth, outdoors in the ground for less then $100 a kilo cured and dried.

You make an interesting point there, Sam, but I still wonder if you're missing something.

"Finest herb on earth" you say, OK, that means well-selected, well-cured, equatorial type buds. Nothing personal, but nada with Skunk in it
First off, I doubt such buds could be grown outside, even in southernmost SoCal, Baja is probably the northernmost that'll do. This means that you'd need specially equipped greenhouses, with auxiliary lighting, shading and gawknows what else. Then you need cures, LONG cures for sat buds, we're talking in excess of 6 months. I have seen this for a fact in some of my own meagre efforts, and I am amazed, yes amazed, at how well wild sats respond to long cures. Some bud doesn't like ultra-long cures, it goes off, but the real stuff does, IMO. So special facilities needed again for commercial production. Hell, bud like that, you probably could charge 500 a zip - agribiz or not.

Also, as many others have already stated, no big corporate would attempt something that until it's Federally legal. More the province of capable (=mid-size) mom-and-pop outfits.

OTOH, I understand what you mean (and agree) that you could get something quite good from the ground, with Haze hybrids, highland sativa genetics and what have you. Look at the price of a kilo of best Afghan or Pakistani hash, at source. Won't be that different, once you adjust for local value-of-money.

====

@Anti: I know what you mean, mate, I'm glad I don't drink a lot, cause I'm an even worse alcohol snob than I am with canna. Have you seen the price of a 15 yr old single malt Scotch lately? Won't even mention the 20yr olds... ooops.

I think there will definitely be an equivalent market for such high class pot, once it's legal, that is. Won't be huge though. More of a special occasion thing, or for Hollywood millionaires

 

[Gert Lush]

I think that the other states with grey or black markets will still keep prices inflated for a while. Think about it. A lot of growers will just hook up with connects in other states(or brokers here that distribute to other locales) and distribute that way, keeping the local supply down somewhat.

Yup, definitely.
That's where the game will go, when Cali goes legal.

Hey are they going to set up customs for going into Arizona? LOL

 

[Gert Lush]

I believe BigBudBill is correct in the short term, but capitalism has a knack of supplying whatever people want and are willing to pay for.
After a few years to get their experience in cultivation, harvesting, curing and drying, legal agri-business can scale up to meet any demand, be it 100 acres or 100,000 acres.

But would it be organic? Somehow methinks not.
Yes, I know thousands wouldn't give a shit, but some would. That's where the "quality market" would come in. I don't care if my potatoes or tomatoes are grown with chems but I'm a bit fussier about my pot.

Eating and inhaling ain't the same thing.

 

[Burt]

thanks for your reply sam-10-11LBs or 5 kilos is impressive to say the least

 

[Shcrews]

the more i think about it...

the more i think about it...

the less feasible it seems, to "legalize and tax" cannabis the way California is trying to do.

1. mass production - definitely will not be outdoors, or else farms would have to be under armed guard 24/7 to prevent rippers.... Huge indoor operations will be REQUIRED, as will permits, inspections, etc..... Basically we are looking an extremely regulated and highly monitored indoor MJ industry, with enormous startup and operation costs. this will force out anybody who doesn't have a few million $$ to invest.

there is no way that CA can make more than $1 per ounce in taxes from a truly legal outdoor market. it would probably be about the same as tobacco, though i'm not sure about the actual yield per plant with tobacco vs. ganja, but that would be the only factor.

the only way CA can make the kind of money they want is with industrialized INDOOR production

The alternative is REAL legalization, but then the earth will be covered with males, and connisseurs will have to grow indoors anyway.

2. Borders - imagine how much of a hassle it will be to leave california in any kind of vehicle at all, or even on foot. esp. considering we are bordered by AZ and NV with very anti-pot laws.

it seems to me that they are trying to build a castle on quicksand, and all i can hope is that it will collapse before it gets too big.

 

[Shcrews]

many are getting upwards of 20 LBS-unless they're lying-perhaps they are but the bluedream is renowned for putting out weight and quality

"they" are lying.

 

[Snypette]

My b, i smoked 3 joints before i wrote in here and was kinda baked so i'll be more specific.. I meant i can't grow, package, and sell packs of cigarettes.. i'm not in cali sam.

what ingredients should be listed in a plant. i dont remember seeing any labels on my produce.

educate me please.

i didn't think of produce. but when a company adds chemicals to cigarettes (not just chemicals that the plants are sprayed for bugs and stuff) to get people more addicted, i feel the people should have a right to know what's in them. but we don't. you can't go online and find a list of chemicals. the cigarette companies have so much power and money that if i knew the list of chemicals and put that info online., that the info would be taken down. Tomatoes don't have added chemicals to get people addicted, so in my eyes that's a whole different category. I feel that if something is added to a product, people should be able to know. especially if it is something harmful.

Just trying to say how things are with cigarettes, could happen with MJ. just my opinion.

 

[Gert Lush]

basically we are looking an extremely regulated and highly monitored indoor MJ industry, with enormous and operation costs. this will force out anybody who doesn't have a few million $$ to invest.

A lot of people seem to be trying to make this point, but I just don't see it myself.

- Why would the costs be any more than a current indoor grow, which also has the burden of stealth measures?

- Why would people rip outdoor crops, when everyone can have all they want on their balcony? Plus, ripping has to be done at the right time, who the hell would bother to rip unripe bud which they couldn't shift? So, just hire a few more guards before harvest, if you must, but even that I doubt will be necessary. How many other agricultural products get "ripped"? How many vans would you need to rip an acre? We are not talking about pinching a couple of colas, are we?

- What big corporation would get involved with something that is Federally illegal? Do you think corporate lawyers come cheap?

So I think all this paranoia about "the multi-million corpos will muscle us out" is just that - paranoia, i.e. unfounded and unreasonable fear masking other psychological problems.

 

[Shcrews]

Here is the latest Poll results as posted from wikipedia:

An April 2009 field poll found 56% of Californians supported the legalization of marijuana. An April 2010 SurveyUSA poll also found 56% support, with a margin of error of 4.4%. Support for legalization broke down as follows:

....

Gender

Men - 65%
Women - 46%

.......

WTF females?!?!?! really??/

 

[Shcrews]

good post. heres what i think in bold

A lot of people seem to be trying to make this point, but I just don't see it myself.

- Why would the costs be any more than a current indoor grow, which also has the burden of stealth measures?
the costs would be the same, high, as running an indoor op now. but the product would sell for less. do the math. also like i said, there might be unforeseen regulation and inspections required... which means more $$ and time, and hence less competition

- Why would people rip outdoor crops, when everyone can have all they want on their balcony? Plus, ripping has to be done at the right time, who the hell would bother to rip unripe bud which they couldn't shift? So, just hire a few more guards before harvest, if you must, but even that I doubt will be necessary. How many other agricultural products get "ripped"? How many vans would you need to rip an acre? We are not talking about pinching a couple of colas, are we?

as far as i know, the new bill will not let anybody grow "all they want" outside, there will be a very strict limit. doesn't seem like legalization to me. sure you can grow an ounce or an LB or whatever the limit will be, but how long will that last you??? and then what, wait till next season?, or just buy the mass-produced stuff at the store.... probably the latter.

as for commercial production, one reason i think it will be only indoor is because of the amount of $$ that california wants to squeeze out of all this.. IF they really expect "legal" weed to sell for $100+ per ounce, then an outdoor field would be worth millions, and believe me ppl would want it.

the second reason is because outdoor ganja does not stay fresh all year, and people will want to smoke fresh kush in May, not just november.


- What big corporation would get involved with something that is Federally illegal? Do you think corporate lawyers come cheap?

big corporations are worth billions, and are probably not concerned with this at all, i am talking about millionare investors, not billionare.




So I think all this paranoia about "the multi-million corpos will muscle us out" is just that - paranoia, i.e. unfounded and unreasonable fear masking other psychological problems.

we all have psychological problems, but in this case the only paranoia is that our society wants a bigger and more powerful government than we already have

 

[krunchbubble]

the less feasible it seems, to "legalize and tax" cannabis the way California is trying to do.

1. mass production - definitely will not be outdoors, or else farms would have to be under armed guard 24/7 to prevent rippers.... Huge indoor operations will be REQUIRED, as will permits, inspections, etc..... Basically we are looking an extremely regulated and highly monitored indoor MJ industry, with enormous startup and operation costs. this will force out anybody who doesn't have a few million $$ to invest.

there is no way that CA can make more than $1 per ounce in taxes from a truly legal outdoor market. it would probably be about the same as tobacco, though i'm not sure about the actual yield per plant with tobacco vs. ganja, but that would be the only factor.

the only way CA can make the kind of money they want is with industrialized INDOOR production

The alternative is REAL legalization, but then the earth will be covered with males, and connisseurs will have to grow indoors anyway.

2. Borders - imagine how much of a hassle it will be to leave california in any kind of vehicle at all, or even on foot. esp. considering we are bordered by AZ and NV with very anti-pot laws.

it seems to me that they are trying to build a castle on quicksand, and all i can hope is that it will collapse before it gets too big.

i like the way you think..........

 

[Hammerhead]

you can grow as much cannabis as you can fit in a 5x5 if it's 2lbs or 10lbs you can keep it. It's in the bill.

I will be growing outdoor where my cost is .50 on oz. Thousands have been doing these for many years why do you think this will change. All Agri has a shelf life that's just part of this business.

I can keep my nugs fresh with some manipulation but does not decrease it's potency or taste when its not fresh what do they do I make hash that last's many many years.

I dont think any big corps will touch bill 19 until it gets rescheduled. The big companies would only have cali to sale to not enough profit margin. There going to wait until more states become legal.

 

[Gert Lush]

Hi Schrews, I've reformatted a bit to make more legible, hope you don't mind.

the costs would be the same, high, as running an indoor op now. but the product would sell for less. do the math. also like i said, there might be unforeseen regulation and inspections required... which means more $$ and time, and hence less competition

Yes, but none of that really means that Big Money will muscle you out, which, I think, was your point.
Yes, you'll make less money, but the current prices for weed are ridiculous, to say the least.
On the other hand people won't go to jail, or have to lie and humiliate themselves to get "permission", like they would in some crummy commie state, not the alleged "land of the Free", so I'm afraid your profits will have to take a back seat here.

as far as i know, the new bill will not let anybody grow "all they want" outside, there will be a very strict limit.

Well, in that case, your argument about "ripping" doesn't seem that relevant, either, does it?

sure you can grow an ounce or an LB or whatever the limit will be, but how long will that last you?

With 25 square feet I can grow 5kg a year. That is WAY over what I smoke. Even if I grow only the elite sats that I like I can probably still pull 3 kg a year. I think this prop provides way more than anyone (who isn't med) would ever need for personal use.

in this case the only paranoia is that our society wants a bigger and more powerful government than we already have

If that's what our society wants (which I doubt, anyway) then who are we to obstruct the desires of the people?

I really think this argument of the type "Not locking up people for weed will take AWAY our personal liberties and make big government control us more" is getting a bit tiresome.

I really wonder who first thought of it...

However I suspect it's just a ruse pushed by the prohibitionist lobby since they know that there is no shortage of muddled thinking and paranoid adolescents in the canna community.

Sorry, but I just can't see who else it would appeal to.

 

[Yes4Prop215]

Projection of a Rand study puts an ounce of good weed at $38. About $400 a pound after November.
http://www.rand.org/pubs/occasional_papers/2010/RAND_OP315.pdf

Still interested in supplying the masses? Amazing how many people have it backwards. Read the paper.

bullshit...maybe for beaster shwag...no way any growers i know are gonna be selling their sours or purps for anything that low...might as well just stop growing. all the newjacks jumping in after legalization are gonna realize what a headache it is to do decent indoors. anybody whos gonna go through the process of running high quality indoors is not gonna sell for less than 2000-2800 a P...look at canada its pretty legal up there...thats where im getting my prices from.

whatever..if anything i shold be advocating for this because i can lowball the hell out of my growers...but at the same time im running some shit and if someone wants to pay 50, even 150 an O for my pure kush HAHAHAH...get lost buddy go enjoy your mass produced agrafarm bud.

 

[Hammerhead]

if you need cash your going to sale it for what ever you can get. If you don't have any cash your priorities will change very fast

 

[Anti]

The math says there are more smokers and personal growers than commercial growers. The greatest good for the largest majority is legalization. Those that are accustomed to getting by by shirking the system can find some other way to shirk it... or they can start transporting their herb to cities that still lock smokers up for being smokers.

It'll be years before major corporations get into the game (need it to be 100% fed legal to avoid jeopardizing their corporate protections.) and it'll likely be years before it is federally legal. That means plenty of money being made selling your stuff in places like Akron or Austin or Tulsa.

Try and remember why you started smoking herb in the first place and what led you to growing. Legalization is a GOOD thing. If you don't like being regulated, stay off the radar and do what you're ALREADY DOING, but with less inherent risk.