Getting bullied= Commiting S*icide?

[guest3901]

today,in sweeden,a young man took his life.
he streamed it live on the web...i just watched the vid.
all i could think was why..?
how could it get so bad that you would want to off yourself...?

permanent solution to a temporary problem...

so very sad..

 

[Hydrosun]

today,in sweeden,a young man took his life.
he streamed it live on the web...i just watched the vid.
all i could think was why..?
how could it get so bad that you would want to off yourself...?

permanent solution to a temporary problem...

so very sad..

Anyone else read Any Rand?

Funny how there were a good amount of suicides in all of her novels.

She wrote about free thinking people trying to deal with oppressive FALSE realities.

 

[HempKat]

That's ridiculous. Depending on what statistics you look at we are 18th among 36 industrialized nations in education. That's pathetic. We have 40+ million people on food stamps. We are quickly losing our wealth at an alarming rate. We have gone from 1st in wealth per adult to 7th in a blink of an eye. And we haven't hit free fall yet.

We are the very essence of plutocracy. We are a nanny state who as a society begs the government to look after us because we are too warped by entitlement culture to look after ourselves.

I look at the big picture and ask why is the country going down the crapper? I'm looking at the macro-economic and socio-political current state of affairs and asking how we got here. You are scraping together anecdotal evidence to defend our welfare state. You are talking about state to state differences. I'm talking about a multi-decade long analysis of this country AS A WHOLE.

Suicides go up in a depression anyway. Not to be unexpected.

Different colored lenses bro.

First of all statistics prove nothing, they are approximations of facts not facts themselves. If they were facts you wouldn't be able to say "depending on what statistic you look at" because facts stay consistent.

Next you say 40+ million on food stamps okay well the nation is somewhere around 330 million strong so that's what about 1.5% of the population, that sure is a far cry from everyone like you were saying earlier. I understand though 40+ million on Food Stamps sounds a heck of alot worse then, 1.5% of the population.

Also we as a country are not losing our wealth at an alarming rate the middle class is losing it's wealth at an alarming rate. The majority of our nations wealth around 90 to 95% is held by just 5 to 10% of the population and believe me, those fuckers aren't losing anything, nor will they if the Bush Tax Cuts for the wealthy get made permanent like the Republicans want to make happen.

What is killing our country more then anything else is greed. Greed by the wealthy to be even more wealthy even though they already have more wealth then they can reasonably spend in a lifetime. This greed has allowed them to dismantle our manufacturing base and ship it off over seas along with millions of jobs. It's the reason for the first time in history the earning capacity for the current generation is less then the previous generation. It's also why our education is so poor because nobody wants to spend decent money compensating teachers fairly for the responsibility of molding the next generation into well educated adults. So you end up with teachers that mostly are glorified baby-sitters, many of whom who can't pass the same tests they expect our children to pass from their teaching. The few good teachers still capable of getting thru to kids and who are in it for the joy of teaching are spread too far and few between to make any meaningful impact. All the other good teachers have moved on to universities and private schools where teachers can command a reasonable salary. Unfortunately with wages going down fewer can afford those places and if nothing changes before long some of those teachers will be joining the ranks of the unemployed as universities and private schools cut back on teachers to match dwindling demand.

Just because you make bold sweeping generalizations that are not supported by any evidence does not mean you're looking at the bigger picture at all. It pretty much means that you're fudging facts to make them fit your personal view. If you were looking at the bigger picture you'd be doing like me and looking at the state to state differences because the things you criticize are different state to state. Like for example even at the height of the housing crisis when some homes lost value hand over fist there were pockets of prosperity where home values actually continued to rise. So people in those areas would see the housing crisis very differently then people in areas where home values declined the most.

Now if you want to talk multi decade issues that got us where we are today then there's a number of things one can point to but ultimately again it was greed. The times that people look on as America in the height of it's glory were the days of the single family incomes, when a parent (typically the mother) would stay at home, manage the household and raise the kids. That's impossible to survive on anymore though because everyone out there selling you something be it a product or a service believes they should be able to pass all the expenses on to the consumer. Like hospitals, the average rate for a room per night without any other equipment or the services of the nurses, is more then most people pay per month for rent. That's not because it costs so much more for that room to exist it's because too many seek care from hospitals when they don't really need it and then skip out on the bill afterwards. Rather then looking at that as their problem and finding a way to stop it, they just pass the cost on to you by raising the rates for everyone that does pay. Now it's getting to the point that even the people that could be trusted to pay can't pay that's why medical bills are the number one cause of personal bankruptcy to the tune of millions of cases per year. It's also why healthcare reform became health insurance reform. There was no way they were going to get the doctors and hospitals to lower the rates they charge. So they focused on getting everyone insured so that someone would be paying. Kind of a "if you can't raise the bridge, lower the river" kind of solution.

Anyway all our social ills, our decline from our former glory can be traced back to the end of the single income family. That and the fact that generations of people have now been raised by tv, video games and the internet. It's from that pool of people that you will draw the statistics that support your opinion of the American people but it's still a far cry from being everyone. Perhaps if we keep on the path we're on we'll be there one day but it's not likely as the nation can't keep going this direction long enough for the older generations to die off.

 

[headband 707]

Well if you want to go down this road I suggest you watch the show "Capatilism" by Micheal Moore for what has happened to the USA it's a real eye opener lol.. sad but true as to what has happened to all your money guys.. peace out Headband707

 

[InvisibleEmpire]

Well if you want to go down this road I suggest you watch the show "Capatilism" by Micheal Moore for what has happened to the USA it's a real eye opener lol.. sad but true as to what has happened to all your money guys.. peace out Headband707

LOL!

Michael Moore. What a fat piece of shit who thinks bringing to light small truths will do something for his career.

There are many more eye-opening videos.

Invisible Empire, being one.

 

[southflorida]

Next you say 40+ million on food stamps okay well the nation is somewhere around 330 million strong so that's what about 1.5% of the population, that sure is a far cry from everyone like you were saying earlier. I understand though 40+ million on Food Stamps sounds a heck of alot worse then, 1.5% of the population.

actually it's a little more than 10%

 

[headband 707]

LOL!

Michael Moore. What a fat piece of shit who thinks bringing to light small truths will do something for his career.

There are many more eye-opening videos.

Invisible Empire, being one.

Yeah watch it then get back to me about that one .. I guess the TRUTH really does sting LOL LOL LOL

 

[ibjamming]

That's ridiculous. Depending on what statistics you look at we are 18th among 36 industrialized nations in education. That's pathetic. We have 40+ million people on food stamps. We are quickly losing our wealth at an alarming rate. We have gone from 1st in wealth per adult to 7th in a blink of an eye. And we haven't hit free fall yet.

We are the very essence of plutocracy. We are a nanny state who as a society begs the government to look after us because we are too warped by entitlement culture to look after ourselves.

I look at the big picture and ask why is the country going down the crapper? I'm looking at the macro-economic and socio-political current state of affairs and asking how we got here. You are scraping together anecdotal evidence to defend our welfare state. You are talking about state to state differences. I'm talking about a multi-decade long analysis of this country AS A WHOLE.

Suicides go up in a depression anyway. Not to be unexpected.

Different colored lenses bro.

I know the reason we're so low compared to other places...but I can't say it.

WHO needs taking care of? I know... Who begs to be taken care of? I know...

So what have YOU decided? I know...

Anyone else read Any Rand?

Funny how there were a good amount of suicides in all of her novels.

She wrote about free thinking people trying to deal with oppressive FALSE realities.

Ayn Rand...oh, I get it now...you MEANT "any" ?...OK, sorry.

Just ignore the lies. That's what I do.

First of all statistics prove nothing, they are approximations of facts not facts themselves. If they were facts you wouldn't be able to say "depending on what statistic you look at" because facts stay consistent.

Next you say 40+ million on food stamps okay well the nation is somewhere around 330 million strong so that's what about 1.5% of the population, that sure is a far cry from everyone like you were saying earlier. I understand though 40+ million on Food Stamps sounds a heck of alot worse then, 1.5% of the population.

Also we as a country are not losing our wealth at an alarming rate the middle class is losing it's wealth at an alarming rate. The majority of our nations wealth around 90 to 95% is held by just 5 to 10% of the population and believe me, those fuckers aren't losing anything, nor will they if the Bush Tax Cuts for the wealthy get made permanent like the Republicans want to make happen.

What is killing our country more then anything else is greed. Greed by the wealthy to be even more wealthy even though they already have more wealth then they can reasonably spend in a lifetime. This greed has allowed them to dismantle our manufacturing base and ship it off over seas along with millions of jobs. It's the reason for the first time in history the earning capacity for the current generation is less then the previous generation. It's also why our education is so poor because nobody wants to spend decent money compensating teachers fairly for the responsibility of molding the next generation into well educated adults. So you end up with teachers that mostly are glorified baby-sitters, many of whom who can't pass the same tests they expect our children to pass from their teaching. The few good teachers still capable of getting thru to kids and who are in it for the joy of teaching are spread too far and few between to make any meaningful impact. All the other good teachers have moved on to universities and private schools where teachers can command a reasonable salary. Unfortunately with wages going down fewer can afford those places and if nothing changes before long some of those teachers will be joining the ranks of the unemployed as universities and private schools cut back on teachers to match dwindling demand.

Just because you make bold sweeping generalizations that are not supported by any evidence does not mean you're looking at the bigger picture at all. It pretty much means that you're fudging facts to make them fit your personal view. If you were looking at the bigger picture you'd be doing like me and looking at the state to state differences because the things you criticize are different state to state. Like for example even at the height of the housing crisis when some homes lost value hand over fist there were pockets of prosperity where home values actually continued to rise. So people in those areas would see the housing crisis very differently then people in areas where home values declined the most.

Now if you want to talk multi decade issues that got us where we are today then there's a number of things one can point to but ultimately again it was greed. The times that people look on as America in the height of it's glory were the days of the single family incomes, when a parent (typically the mother) would stay at home, manage the household and raise the kids. That's impossible to survive on anymore though because everyone out there selling you something be it a product or a service believes they should be able to pass all the expenses on to the consumer. Like hospitals, the average rate for a room per night without any other equipment or the services of the nurses, is more then most people pay per month for rent. That's not because it costs so much more for that room to exist it's because too many seek care from hospitals when they don't really need it and then skip out on the bill afterwards. Rather then looking at that as their problem and finding a way to stop it, they just pass the cost on to you by raising the rates for everyone that does pay. Now it's getting to the point that even the people that could be trusted to pay can't pay that's why medical bills are the number one cause of personal bankruptcy to the tune of millions of cases per year. It's also why healthcare reform became health insurance reform. There was no way they were going to get the doctors and hospitals to lower the rates they charge. So they focused on getting everyone insured so that someone would be paying. Kind of a "if you can't raise the bridge, lower the river" kind of solution.

Anyway all our social ills, our decline from our former glory can be traced back to the end of the single income family. That and the fact that generations of people have now been raised by tv, video games and the internet. It's from that pool of people that you will draw the statistics that support your opinion of the American people but it's still a far cry from being everyone. Perhaps if we keep on the path we're on we'll be there one day but it's not likely as the nation can't keep going this direction long enough for the older generations to die off.

It's 13%...quite a bit more than "your statistics" of 1.3%...yes, you're right, you CAN'T trust the numbers people throw around. That amount of the population IS disgusting. Why is it happening?

Really? or are they just going too far into debt because they NEED all the latest toys and their daily Starbucks fix? My brothers kid just lost their house...but they still have their fucking iphones! And they still go and have their triple latte mocha or whatever the fuck they're called. The young people these days were spoiled rotten by their parents...that's what's wrong with the youth today. Everything WAS given to them...they expect that to continue.

Greed IS the problem...but EVERYONE is greedy.

Greed of the rich didn't send our jobs away...we did...through the unions. We organized to get more and more...well, now it's too much, too expensive...the jobs went where they could afford the labor...it's quite simple.

Actually, that's your parents job...but they're too busy working to pay the bills to teach you anything. What? you CAN teach for $35 an hour but not $30? Nope, teachers are greedy too. It's a PART TIME job, yet most make over $50K a year.

Actually, the problem is with the kids. Inner city schools are more like prisons than schools. Metal detectors, police patrols, WTF is wrong with these kids? Yes, there, in the inner cities, teachers ARE baby sitters. Go to the rich suburbs...school is NOTHING like what you described. So...why the difference?

And WHERE did this happen? Anything in common?

Not ALL our decline was caused by that...but it's a biggie for sure!

I personally think our "great decline" occurred when we went from "getting the best person" to "filling a quota". When we went from striving to be our very best...to everyone is equal...I deserve my share just because.

 

[HempKat]

actually it's a little more than 10%

Thanks, I knew it didn't look right but I had other things to get to and so I just left it that way.

 

[HempKat]

Well if you want to go down this road I suggest you watch the show "Capatilism" by Micheal Moore for what has happened to the USA it's a real eye opener lol.. sad but true as to what has happened to all your money guys.. peace out Headband707

Be very careful watching Mr. Moore's films, he's very dishonest in his presentation of the truth. He likes to take actual quotes (which is the truth part) but presents them out of context (the dishonest part) to make them seem like they're saying something different then what they are saying. If you call him on it he'll act like he doesn't know what you're talking about and point out that it's the truth because he has the person quoted live on film. To give an example in his Bowling for Columbine film he has Charleton Heston holding up a rifle and saying to an audience that famous quote "I'll give you my gun when you take it from my cold, dead hands". Mr. Heston said that at a meeting of the NRA of which he was President at the time so the statement was perfectly acceptable in it's actual context. Mr. Moore made it seem like he said that at a meeting with the parents of Columbine which makes Mr. Heston seem rather cold and insensitive.

 

[southflorida]

Thanks, I knew it didn't look right but I had other things to get to and so I just left it that way.

okay, and in the end it doesn't matter how many percent of the
population is getting food stamps...the world will continue to spin
for a while...people will keep killing themselves for a while...and at
some time in the future...when Consciousness gets tired of creating
all this BS we call life...everything will disappear...and there will be
nothing but space and silence...and the moral of these few words is...

...you don't know what you got until it's gone!

And sadly, the folks that commit suicide don't have a way to correct
their mistake...and once they're gone they're gone forever!

 

[Japanfreakier]

Come on that was totally fair for him to use that line. Showing up at his house with that picture of the dead kid was complete bullshit though.

 

[Japanfreakier]

okay, and in the end it doesn't matter how many percent of the
population is getting food stamps...the world will continue to spin
for a while...people will keep killing themselves for a while...and at
some time in the future...when Consciousness gets tired of creating
all this BS we call life...everything will disappear...and there will be
nothing but space and silence...and the moral of these few words is...

...you don't know what you got until it's gone!

And sadly, the folks that commit suicide don't have a way to correct
their mistake...and once they're gone they're gone forever!

If you can't be with the one you love, love the one you're with

 

[southflorida]

If you can't be with the one you love, love the one you're with

JF...this one went over my head...what do you mean by that,
taking into account what I wrote in my post?

 

[Japanfreakier]

I thought we were throwing out cliches, my bad.

 

[headband 707]

Be very careful watching Mr. Moore's films, he's very dishonest in his presentation of the truth. He likes to take actual quotes (which is the truth part) but presents them out of context (the dishonest part) to make them seem like they're saying something different then what they are saying. If you call him on it he'll act like he doesn't know what you're talking about and point out that it's the truth because he has the person quoted live on film. To give an example in his Bowling for Columbine film he has Charleton Heston holding up a rifle and saying to an audience that famous quote "I'll give you my gun when you take it from my cold, dead hands". Mr. Heston said that at a meeting of the NRA of which he was President at the time so the statement was perfectly acceptable in it's actual context. Mr. Moore made it seem like he said that at a meeting with the parents of Columbine which makes Mr. Heston seem rather cold and insensitive.

I actually really enjoy Micheal Moore's work but hey to each his own. Not all of what he says might rain true for all but I think this show hits the nail on the head if I'm wrong then watch the show and get back to me. But don't throw the baby out with the bath water atleast not in this instance. The US is in real trouble here and he does break it down so watch it and see if he is right or wrong.. peace out Headband707

 

[southflorida]

I thought we were throwing out cliches, my bad.

ok, I see, for what it is, at least you wrote one of the ones I like

 

[hunt4genetics]

I just saw a report about suicides at Fort Hood in Texas. They have had 18 suicides on base in less than 30 days. (4 in one weekend)

Could it just be what happens when a society rises to a point where all of one's physical needs are met? (I wonder what the suicide rate is in North Korea?)

When a society reaches a point where there is plenty food (so much so that we have obese homeless people),
When a society has realtive safety (There is crime but not mass abductions, mass executions, arms and heads getting chopped off etc.)

When people are not fighting for their lives 24/7 they lose their ability to cope?

This is just speculation, just me thinking out loud,
But I do see a trend:
The more affluent the society, the higher the suicide rate.

The more we have, the less turbulence we can handle...?

 

[HempKat]

It's 13%...quite a bit more than "your statistics" of 1.3%...yes, you're right, you CAN'T trust the numbers people throw around. That amount of the population IS disgusting. Why is it happening?

Not my statistics, I was talking about the thread topic when SG threw the nature of American's and how many are on Food Stamps into the mix. I was merely trying to put his 40+ million into perspective but I didn't carry the decimal position properly. I was corrected and thanked the person correcting me. As for the why so many? Well let me see near 10% unemployment takes care of explaining almost that whole amount but you can also factor in declining salaries and higher costs of living.

Really? or are they just going too far into debt because they NEED all the latest toys and their daily Starbucks fix? My brothers kid just lost their house...but they still have their fucking iphones! And they still go and have their triple latte mocha or whatever the fuck they're called. The young people these days were spoiled rotten by their parents...that's what's wrong with the youth today. Everything WAS given to them...they expect that to continue.

Greed IS the problem...but EVERYONE is greedy.

Oh well your brother's kid does it so yeah, I guess that proves the rest of the US population does it too? That's precisely the problem in this discussion. People look around at one or two or a handful of people in their own lives and then project those people's values onto 330 Million other people they don't know and have never met. Yes Greed is the problem but no not everyone is greedy. If that were true there would be no such thing as charity or volunteers.

Greed of the rich didn't send our jobs away...we did...through the unions. We organized to get more and more...well, now it's too much, too expensive...the jobs went where they could afford the labor...it's quite simple.

Actually the jobs protected by unions are some of the few manufacturing jobs still here so it's not unions that caused the problem. It's competeing with countries that don't have minimum wage laws, that don't force employers to pay an amount roughly equal to a salary for unemployment insurance, that doesn't force employers to carry workman's comp, that doesn't force manufacturers to stick to any kind of safety or health standards in their operation. Those things there acoount for most of the overhead companies deal with in the US. Since the companies in other countries aren't hamstrung by those laws and regulations they can produce the exact same thing much cheaper. That creates the reality that the only way American manufacterers can compete globally is to stop manufacturing in the US. So yeah it was an effort to lower labor costs but not because of unions.

Actually, that's your parents job...but they're too busy working to pay the bills to teach you anything. What? you CAN teach for $35 an hour but not $30? Nope, teachers are greedy too. It's a PART TIME job, yet most make over $50K a year.

Nope sorry the average teacher salary in the US is under $45K (http://www.payscale.com/research/US/All_K-12_Teachers/Salary). Also $30 per hour is 62.4K per year but we've already established teachers get paid about 20K less then that. Seeing as how $30 per hour was totally riddiculous there's no need to point out the absurdity of $35 per hour. Also it is not a part time job, it's not a traditional 9-5 job with two weeks paid vacation and holidays but it's far from a part time job. Well that's if you really teach and make up your own lesson plans and tests. If you're the baby sitter kind that doesn't really teach but rather makes sure the kids open and look at their text books then yeah maybe for those kind of teachers it's a part time job.

Actually, the problem is with the kids. Inner city schools are more like prisons than schools. Metal detectors, police patrols, WTF is wrong with these kids? Yes, there, in the inner cities, teachers ARE baby sitters. Go to the rich suburbs...school is NOTHING like what you described. So...why the difference?

Oh so it's the kids fault? You think they take guns to school because they just thought one day "Oh snap, It'll be so cool if I take this gun to school"? They take guns to school because they feel threaten by the violence in the schools and in the neighborhoods they have to walk thru to get to school. It couldn't possibly have anything to do with the cities failing to clean up the crime and gang problems in their cities? In the rich suburbs you don't have the metal dectors and police in the schools. Likely because those cities that represent the suburbs have a better handle on crime in their jurisdictions but they still have stupid teachers that just tell the kids to read from a book and then take quizes or tests that come already thought out by the publisher in the teacher's edition of the same textbook. They don't have to think, they don't have to really teach, they just need to be able to read their book so they can tell the kids what to study in their books.

And WHERE did this happen? Anything in common?

Not ALL our decline was caused by that...but it's a biggie for sure!

I personally think our "great decline" occurred when we went from "getting the best person" to "filling a quota". When we went from striving to be our very best...to everyone is equal...I deserve my share just because.

Yeah there are other things that play into why the single family income ended but regardless of what caused the end of the single family income it's still that end that has led to our nation's moral decline. Our kids are the way they are because they're mostly latch key kids raised by tv, video games and the internet.

 

[HempKat]

Come on that was totally fair for him to use that line. Showing up at his house with that picture of the dead kid was complete bullshit though.

I didn't say it wasn't fair to use the line. I implied it was false and misleading to use it out of context.