With fertilizer and light is ALWAYS better underfeed that overfeed the plants
Sorry for the double post
First time grower with SILS on micro grow
- Thread starter Sampas92
- Start date
With fertilizer and light is ALWAYS better underfeed that overfeed the plants
Sorry for the double post
It might just have short internodes from genetics. I would not worry that part too much. If you notice she is still short after a few more node growths maybe add more red spectrum and see if it helps. As far as light intensity. You would know better than I with sils.
What concerns me is the latest photos. They have some leaf tip curling. Was there nutrients in your watering? You mentioned a couple posts back about transplanting to avoid gnats. What is the situation there? I had them before and that is a true pest. I didn't get rid of them until I stopped growing. I tried many different things. They can cause that curling too.
ambient room rH. With as small of a setup you are running you might get away with sticking a dish of water near the air intake.
PCBuds
Well-known member
I checked my two window plants and the bottom set of leaves on the more indica looking plant has three fingers but I had removed the bottom set on the other one.
The sativa looking plant has a lot of 7 finger leaves, but the indica looking one has only 5 finger leaves with no 7's.
I turned up my ceiling lights to a bit over test current. The temperatures of the strips are OK, and I'm getting 8500 lux right above the plant, so I will leave them there.
Sampas is running 45000-50000 lux with his older plants, but they are in flower now, and I will be turning on my side lighting when my plant starts to flower.
I also just recently checked out my fertilizers website where they have a chart for how much fertilizer I should be using at different stages, so I've got that figured out now. (the directions on the package were not complete.)
Sorry for posting all this on your thread Sampas.
IDK i've tried one time my friend phone and the lux meter display 60% of the lux that my phone misure...
But in my opinion your seedling is doing fine.
On the skunk seedling...
That leaf curling can also be genetic or any kind of root stress
But gnats are bastards so keep an eye on it.
If they are not out of control you can use Beauveria brassiana and/or Metarrhizium anisopliae into the soil and sprayed to the plant/grow room...in 7 days they are history.
PCBuds
Well-known member
My phone app has a calibration setting, but I have nothing to calibrate it with.
I did have success with five 10 Watt SILs at 21" above the seedling with past plants, so I measured five SILs with my phone app and got around 8000 lux.
I'm using that as my comparison.
Yeah, she looks good. (a little weird, but good. Lol)
I'm just going to leave her at 8500 lux, and let her grow into the light.
Sampas92
Just newbin
So answering to you all guys first of all thanks greenheart, indeed autos are smaller but this is blue amnesia xxl, it supose to be bigger version of the auto blue amnesia. i just want to know if they are growing with good internode spacing and not to close, i will late to see how she grows in the next days..also what leaf tip curling you are talking about?on the younger ones or in the older ones?
caio thanks for the tip in the finger count as a light "meter"..some years ago i read about it and i know if the light is right they grow more fingers.
Now to you pcbud and greenheart because this is for both of you..buds, indeed im reading 40~50lux readings on my older plants but keep in mind i only use the meter to compare different heights im correlation with what they do, not to know the lux levels per se..
This part is for both of you, im reading those lux levels with 3 sils at 4 finger distance from the plants and now i think im seeing some light stress, no burning in the leafs, but the leafs in the bigger older one seems to get out of the light at 3 finger distance, and the older younger one in the new growth seems to be curving, im going to see how they grow in the next days, i have some 9w sils laying around and i can turn them if i see i need less intense light since i cant distance them..so all is a bit relative.
Now for all of you about the gnats, the last time i have seen a gnat was 5 days ago..i have only been spraying to keep the upper part of the soil moisten..
I had only one pot with gnats and it was the photo one and spraying the side holes of the pot, bottom and upper part of the soil too with neem oil..
The sick soil was in the grow during 2 days, they may have spread to other pots but i didnt see any signs on them of the larvae.
I take her out, cleaned the roots pretty well under tap water stream thoroughly, searched for larvaes, didnt find any, seedling in glass of water..
Cleande the pot with bleach, rinsed it pretty thoroughly in my shower for about 5 minutes..
New clean soil, planted her and thats it..appart the neem oil i havent did anything and i didnt see more gnats..keep in mind because of the aloe exctrat the older grow soil is always more moisten than normal, perfect breeding conditions for them and i dont see them anymore so i think i won the war..
I went to check on them and she is perky, im a happy man
Thats what i wanted to see from her, a good healthy growth sign
On the smaller one, the new growth, do you guys see how they turn to the light sideways?on the older one the higher leafs sre the only one that curl so hard so i think its because the proxomity to the sil indeed.
The older ones are like this, it may be light stress it may be a little bit of nitrogen, but the tip of the leafs isnt burned like nitro toxicity so it may be light stress..maybe tomorrow ill switch the bulbs and see how they react to less intense light..
The stem leafs show purpling, just in the upper part of the stem, half purple, half green so is from the light intensity, but its nothing extreme.
Thank you all to contribute in my thread and increase my knowledge with your experience
Peace
caio thanks for the tip in the finger count as a light "meter"..some years ago i read about it and i know if the light is right they grow more fingers.
Now to you pcbud and greenheart because this is for both of you..buds, indeed im reading 40~50lux readings on my older plants but keep in mind i only use the meter to compare different heights im correlation with what they do, not to know the lux levels per se..
This part is for both of you, im reading those lux levels with 3 sils at 4 finger distance from the plants and now i think im seeing some light stress, no burning in the leafs, but the leafs in the bigger older one seems to get out of the light at 3 finger distance, and the older younger one in the new growth seems to be curving, im going to see how they grow in the next days, i have some 9w sils laying around and i can turn them if i see i need less intense light since i cant distance them..so all is a bit relative.
Now for all of you about the gnats, the last time i have seen a gnat was 5 days ago..i have only been spraying to keep the upper part of the soil moisten..
I had only one pot with gnats and it was the photo one and spraying the side holes of the pot, bottom and upper part of the soil too with neem oil..
The sick soil was in the grow during 2 days, they may have spread to other pots but i didnt see any signs on them of the larvae.
I take her out, cleaned the roots pretty well under tap water stream thoroughly, searched for larvaes, didnt find any, seedling in glass of water..
Cleande the pot with bleach, rinsed it pretty thoroughly in my shower for about 5 minutes..
New clean soil, planted her and thats it..appart the neem oil i havent did anything and i didnt see more gnats..keep in mind because of the aloe exctrat the older grow soil is always more moisten than normal, perfect breeding conditions for them and i dont see them anymore so i think i won the war..
I went to check on them and she is perky, im a happy man
Thats what i wanted to see from her, a good healthy growth sign
On the smaller one, the new growth, do you guys see how they turn to the light sideways?on the older one the higher leafs sre the only one that curl so hard so i think its because the proxomity to the sil indeed.
The older ones are like this, it may be light stress it may be a little bit of nitrogen, but the tip of the leafs isnt burned like nitro toxicity so it may be light stress..maybe tomorrow ill switch the bulbs and see how they react to less intense light..
The stem leafs show purpling, just in the upper part of the stem, half purple, half green so is from the light intensity, but its nothing extreme.
Thank you all to contribute in my thread and increase my knowledge with your experience
Peace
Sampas92
Just newbin
Older girls
Older girls
So this is when i say they are ready to go to sleep with all the floppy leafs, but lights only be out in 1 hour from now.
Now i wonder and ask you guys that are in this longer than i and know how to read the plants better, besides the clawing, this is a sign of going to sleep or too much light?
If i switch to the 9w sils the readings are 25~30k lux, less 25k than with the 13w..what you guys think?
They dont show light stress signs i think..
Also the clawing that they are presenting i think is because of too much water and i say rhis because i dont see signs of any nute def or toxicity.
Im between to much water or light because only the higher new growth of the bigger one shows so much clawing, and the bigger leafs show it a bit, all the other ones dont..what you guys think?
i will let it dry in the next days
The wrinkle in that leaf only appears when they are like this in this time of the day for them, during the day is normal
The new growth show a good lime green colour until they become the darker green..the older growth show good colouration also, no burns no twists no nothing..
This pic makes everything confusing because as you can see the new growth in the smaller one grows under the sil direction, so it wants more light..
I upped a bit the ventilation of the grow, lets see if i get any reaction from them tomorrow, the heater will work more and rh will drop s bit but lets see, you never now and i dont fully dialed my exctration, i manage it by controlling the rh and temps readings and dont take into consideration the amount of air im renovating, im lacking in that aspect and i shouldnt..tomorrow i will make some calculations here in icmag
Older girls
So this is when i say they are ready to go to sleep with all the floppy leafs, but lights only be out in 1 hour from now.
Now i wonder and ask you guys that are in this longer than i and know how to read the plants better, besides the clawing, this is a sign of going to sleep or too much light?
If i switch to the 9w sils the readings are 25~30k lux, less 25k than with the 13w..what you guys think?
They dont show light stress signs i think..
Also the clawing that they are presenting i think is because of too much water and i say rhis because i dont see signs of any nute def or toxicity.
Im between to much water or light because only the higher new growth of the bigger one shows so much clawing, and the bigger leafs show it a bit, all the other ones dont..what you guys think?
i will let it dry in the next days
The wrinkle in that leaf only appears when they are like this in this time of the day for them, during the day is normal
The new growth show a good lime green colour until they become the darker green..the older growth show good colouration also, no burns no twists no nothing..
This pic makes everything confusing because as you can see the new growth in the smaller one grows under the sil direction, so it wants more light..
I upped a bit the ventilation of the grow, lets see if i get any reaction from them tomorrow, the heater will work more and rh will drop s bit but lets see, you never now and i dont fully dialed my exctration, i manage it by controlling the rh and temps readings and dont take into consideration the amount of air im renovating, im lacking in that aspect and i shouldnt..tomorrow i will make some calculations here in icmag
Sampas92
Just newbin
My youngins are thriving
I swithed the halogen bulb, as a reference i want 10/15% of halogen power to leds so now its a 13w halogen..smaller e14 socket.. for the amount of led w they getting now it should be arount 3~5w..
But before the switch they were perky, i want to see the difference it will have in the next 2 days..
The photo period for the first time since the transplant was praying like her bigger sister
Lets keep going. Crashing. Learning
Peace
I swithed the halogen bulb, as a reference i want 10/15% of halogen power to leds so now its a 13w halogen..smaller e14 socket.. for the amount of led w they getting now it should be arount 3~5w..
But before the switch they were perky, i want to see the difference it will have in the next 2 days..
The photo period for the first time since the transplant was praying like her bigger sister
Lets keep going. Crashing. Learning
Peace
It is hard to judge what the cause is. I would say yes to the overwatering.
The picture I was talking about is #5 in the album. The very edges of the leaves. It might not hurt to put a sticky trap or tape to help keep watch on what might be flying or crawling around. If they are in the soil in a larvae stage that would lead to the overwatering since the roots are under attack. It sounds like you took all precautions. I'm also pretty new myself and out of the loop. Maybe other more experienced growers will chime in. I don't know anything about the new leds or sils. I had thought about rope lighting the walls of my cabinet and this thread and your experiences are helping me learn about it.
I've already decided I should make my cabinet taller. When I do go leds it sounds like I need to be able to give more vertical space to allow me to adjust light levels better. If I have a 4' cab with a 1' soil bed and 16" plants it won't give me much room for beam intensity.
EDIT: See the last photo you posted right above. That is the edges I was talking about. The one in the top 2 pictures looks perfect. I just realized it might also be transplant shock. :facepalm: I think you are doing well. The most important thing is don't kill them with kindness and too much love. As was said before the hard part in the seedling stage is the waiting game.
The picture I was talking about is #5 in the album. The very edges of the leaves. It might not hurt to put a sticky trap or tape to help keep watch on what might be flying or crawling around. If they are in the soil in a larvae stage that would lead to the overwatering since the roots are under attack. It sounds like you took all precautions. I'm also pretty new myself and out of the loop. Maybe other more experienced growers will chime in. I don't know anything about the new leds or sils. I had thought about rope lighting the walls of my cabinet and this thread and your experiences are helping me learn about it.
I've already decided I should make my cabinet taller. When I do go leds it sounds like I need to be able to give more vertical space to allow me to adjust light levels better. If I have a 4' cab with a 1' soil bed and 16" plants it won't give me much room for beam intensity.
EDIT: See the last photo you posted right above. That is the edges I was talking about. The one in the top 2 pictures looks perfect. I just realized it might also be transplant shock. :facepalm: I think you are doing well. The most important thing is don't kill them with kindness and too much love. As was said before the hard part in the seedling stage is the waiting game.
Sampas92
Just newbin
Keep in mind that when you build your light the bulbs must be spread evenly to create a even lighting..the beam angle usually is 120° or 160°
Some guys grow in cabs that size or smaller, but also bigger but in a micro/small scrog/sog style grow it would work.
25w/sq is what you want aim.
Blynx thread have all your answers about the subject.
About the photo edges you sre talking about, dunno what can caused it, it was when i quarantined her and get worst because the leafs dried becsuse the environment was cold and dry, i managed the temp with a halogen bulb, the rh dont. So she is the same but the leafs dont change that part. She stretched with vigour untill good light levels before the transplant.
Dunno if it could be from weird grow or something in the soil, old or new. Its the same that the auto is getting..
I will let do her thing.
Need some sleep, work early
Peace
Sampas92
Just newbin
As you guys can see, they only show the clawing in the bigger most closer leafs to the light..
Side view
The younger one
The same claw in the tip in the same zone that the other have..
I dont know what to think, they show the same symptoms in the same area..from overwater i think they should show that in all of the plant and not just in the upper part right?nitrogen is mobile so also should show in all of them..ph i think is the same plus is a different pattern i think..
The only thing that comes to my mind is the light intensity and heat from the sil, but i put my hand in the cannopy and i dont feel much it..i just got theight intensity now im having a big "?" in my head right now
Also i am not seeing them stretching. They getting thicker but no taller..im in between lowering light ouptut power or change lights position and light them by the sides..
i need to think about it but indeed they have something and im not sure what is it..
One think i remember now, too much wind causes the same thing..the pot is in a shelf, the air that comes from the bottom of the grow and goes to the exctration box you see in the pics comes from all the sides..im not sure about the flow and how is it, i cant see it but i think is not because of that but you never know..
Side view
The younger one
The same claw in the tip in the same zone that the other have..
I dont know what to think, they show the same symptoms in the same area..from overwater i think they should show that in all of the plant and not just in the upper part right?nitrogen is mobile so also should show in all of them..ph i think is the same plus is a different pattern i think..
The only thing that comes to my mind is the light intensity and heat from the sil, but i put my hand in the cannopy and i dont feel much it..i just got theight intensity now im having a big "?" in my head right now
Also i am not seeing them stretching. They getting thicker but no taller..im in between lowering light ouptut power or change lights position and light them by the sides..
i need to think about it but indeed they have something and im not sure what is it..
One think i remember now, too much wind causes the same thing..the pot is in a shelf, the air that comes from the bottom of the grow and goes to the exctration box you see in the pics comes from all the sides..im not sure about the flow and how is it, i cant see it but i think is not because of that but you never know..
Sampas92
Just newbin
Day 9
Day 9
The better news come from tbe bottom shelf..
Im loving this guys.
In the first pic you can see the low profile halogen..i dont know if its really doing something, it should and 15w isnt that much so i let it be..
I think i can see 5 fingers in the 3rd set but its a bit early to be sure.
Still, i think in the sun she would be a bit stretchier and i want the same kind of growth.
My soil is always 2/3c less than the air temp..25c air to 22/23c in soil.
I think im giving them a proper spa for them to grow for now.
Being a newbee in this is exausting kkkkk
Day 9
The better news come from tbe bottom shelf..
Im loving this guys.
In the first pic you can see the low profile halogen..i dont know if its really doing something, it should and 15w isnt that much so i let it be..
I think i can see 5 fingers in the 3rd set but its a bit early to be sure.
Still, i think in the sun she would be a bit stretchier and i want the same kind of growth.
My soil is always 2/3c less than the air temp..25c air to 22/23c in soil.
I think im giving them a proper spa for them to grow for now.
Being a newbee in this is exausting kkkkk
Sampas92
Just newbin
Photo day 6
Photo day 6
My photo is putting some slow growth, i wasnt carefull with the root placement wuen i tranplanted her and it can have some influence in her i think, dunno really.
greenheart about the tips in the serration, dunno what it could be but the auto one in the first 3 days showed a tiny bit of that, and this one showed since the first days also..
Anyone have any opinion on this?
I have one question, light intensity and levels should be lower on transplanted plants?simillar to clones?i ask because she is just some day since the harsh transplant and the older plants that i think have to much light, show the same thing in the closest growth to the lights, may the light be too intense to the transplanted one?dunno but she is changing everyday wich is good and a good sign.
Thats one think i want to know for the future grows..
Im going to try to make some calculations exctration of air, see ya later guys
Peace
Photo day 6
My photo is putting some slow growth, i wasnt carefull with the root placement wuen i tranplanted her and it can have some influence in her i think, dunno really.
greenheart about the tips in the serration, dunno what it could be but the auto one in the first 3 days showed a tiny bit of that, and this one showed since the first days also..
Anyone have any opinion on this?
I have one question, light intensity and levels should be lower on transplanted plants?simillar to clones?i ask because she is just some day since the harsh transplant and the older plants that i think have to much light, show the same thing in the closest growth to the lights, may the light be too intense to the transplanted one?dunno but she is changing everyday wich is good and a good sign.
Thats one think i want to know for the future grows..
Im going to try to make some calculations exctration of air, see ya later guys
Peace
The skunk seedling is doing fine...give her time, she is a little bit shocked but nothing to worry about.
Skunk is also an IBL so she don't grow as fast as an hybrid/F1.
The Amnesia is happy nothing to say about.
What's the light schedule on the bigger ones?
A photo plant goes 12/12 to 10/14 so she can "eat" more light than an auto on 24/24.
So if an photo plant recive 60k/70k lux an auto (in theory, i don't grow autos) can recive 30k/35k lux max.
PS don't overwater or (worst) overfeed them
Skunk is also an IBL so she don't grow as fast as an hybrid/F1.
The Amnesia is happy nothing to say about.
What's the light schedule on the bigger ones?
A photo plant goes 12/12 to 10/14 so she can "eat" more light than an auto on 24/24.
So if an photo plant recive 60k/70k lux an auto (in theory, i don't grow autos) can recive 30k/35k lux max.
PS don't overwater or (worst) overfeed them
Sorry another time for double post.......
Yes is better give to a transplanted plant half the light for 1 to 3 days, specially if she is young, but only if you use a considerable amount of light.
If your light level is moderate (10k lux) you don't need do that.
And if you use peat is better transplant them in the same soil quality.
My 2 cents.
Yes is better give to a transplanted plant half the light for 1 to 3 days, specially if she is young, but only if you use a considerable amount of light.
If your light level is moderate (10k lux) you don't need do that.
And if you use peat is better transplant them in the same soil quality.
My 2 cents.
Sampas92
Just newbin
For what ive seen, some people use their lights with autos according the DLI, and it has influence in the healthy of them and right metabolic health and they adapt the dli according the ammount of hours they getting, the light schedule is the same they have getting since the beggining also all of them, 20/4 since seed stage to harvest.
I see some algee forming in the older girls soil for some time now, sign of a damp soil, i need to dry it for some days, i will also remove the perlite algee from it.
Some details and some fun with them
Closest area of the light, also the most clawed leaf that you see in the bigger pics of the bigger girl
I think im getting indeed a bit of too much water in the soil..high rh because of my seedlings keeps the soil moist for longer and a bit of lack of air movement get the things worst a bit.
Peace
PCBuds
Well-known member
Here's my thought. (remember that I make stuff up. lol)
The leaves in that zone grew, and established themselves based on the conditions at the time.
Both the environmental conditions, and the state of recovery from whatever was wrong with the plants at the time.
Those leaves are no longer perfectly suited to the new environment and the plant is doing what it needs to do with them to keep them useful and productive now.
It's the new growth and younger growth that's important.
The old stuff is a record of the past.
I remember cranking up my lights and most of the big fan leaves just dried up and died.
I don't think it was so much because I cooked them, but because the plant simply didn't need them anymore for photosynthesis and stopped wasting resources on them to keep them alive.
I think it's much the same thing.
Why would a plant waste its resources, growing and stretching if it gets all the light and photosynthesis it needs, without all the stretching.
Sampas92
Just newbin
Sorry another time for double post.......
Yes is better give to a transplanted plant half the light for 1 to 3 days, specially if she is young, but only if you use a considerable amount of light.
If your light level is moderate (10k lux) you don't need do that.
And if you use peat is better transplant them in the same soil quality.
My 2 cents.
I only am getting 10k lux but the intensity can be way higher than your board with the same lux readings, all because sils are like multiple hotspots. Since they have a bunch of diodes concentrated in the same place, the intensity is higher.. for example with sils if you have 2 sils 13w 1521lm where one of them has 10 diodes and the other one have 20, the first one would have a higher intensity, but they output the same ammount of light.
For example my youngins point to the middle sil.
It is a 9watter 720lm but she have even less diodes than the other 2 13w 1521lm. They are running the diodes harder and that for the plants means the most stronger source of light is the 9w and it outputs way less light than the other ones, its confusing but its because of how the led technology works and by no means i understand it to preach anything here, but i know that a higher/smaller diode count matters in the intensity and how the plants react to it, autos since they prefer more spreaded light maybe suffer a bit in this kind of grows..
About the soil, i used what i already have.
I didnt reduce my light output for her so probably the perky tip of the serration part is because of light intensity like the bigger older girl. Dunno
Yes and yes. Also genetics play a fundamental role in stretching.
I DID THIS ONLY WITH A FEW PLANTS so i don't know how your plants can response:
try give them 24 hours of darkness to give them some stretch.
I gave a maximum of 3 days of total darkness one time and the plants start starving and discolorating but they didn't die.
