feminized plant used for making seed

[cannaboy]

Don't even go there, stagger lee. You pop off in some thread throwing rocks at me, and you can expect to see a little red dot of disapproval. I tell you what...throw all the red dots at me you want, even if not warranted. I give half a shit about red dots, jr.
And your explanation of how things went down sucks. You have selective memory.
And your take was not concerning the bad practices of seed breeders, but the process itself. Perhaps you could explain to us what the shoddy fem seed breeders are doing that is shoddy work? Then explain to us how the reputable breeders are making fem seeds?
Can you?

Repitable seed breedersd are 2 a penny now and its all got this breeding tool in there work they just don't tell you because you don't diddn't need to know because its been properly worked to release f1's stabel has nobody ever wondered what is ment by stabelizing a line in f1 form?? It means lots of trial and error beforerelease of said pips,, like bacross BC or IBL in its propper terminoligy in the horticoultural society not a bulshit paper you tossers read,, so the final filal is recombining the good genetics into a F1 hybrid this may have had a repair bacross or incross to get whatever can be got at,,

 

[hoosierdaddy]

I would say this, that there is evidence out there that states when a selfed line can reach a problem ie say at S3 its very weak as its extremely inbred a single bout of M/F mating can increase vigor and improve fitness.. though this has also been seen to work the other way. I will try to find the doc for you, but may take some days...

I am not talking about what it can be taken to, I am talking about comparing two siblings, which indicates the same generation.
Maybe I wasn't clear...

Assume we have three plants, two females and one male...all of the same batch of F1 seeds, so they are siblings.
We flower the male and female 1, breed them, and grow out and select one female from their progeny.
Now we flower out female 1 again, and this time pollinate her with the pollen from female 2 that we forced, and grow out and select a single female from the progeny of that mating.
The two females that we selected from both of the separate matings are going to be identical accept for phenotype expression. There would be no depressions seen in one female that the other would not also be susceptible to. Both of our selected females are nothing more than incrosses.
If we used another male sibling for the second mating, and selected a female from that mating, there would be no more difference in it than there would be with the first F/M incross, or the forced incross.

So, we have selected three females from three separate matings. There is no way to distinguish the three plants in the lab or otherwise. They are simply F2's from three separate matings.
There is no evidence that there would be any differences at all in any female from any of those three pollination's.

 

[Silence]

If you want to learn how to breed then yes,, I can show you.. The females are half the deal. We all have been throwing males out too much as a community.. The female x female is still half of what you need,, you can self all the females in the world to get your pollen but to get the 1 you need you must grow them all.. With males you can do what every1 feminized is doing Just BETTER. You can hit like 22 males on a bitch easy no stress and get some seeds, but the males give 1 or 2 or howevermany slightly vairiable differences with no loss of genome regarding visable True traits as no reshuffel is going on just paring.. This is why saving seeds from particular seeds is the most important part of breeding. knowing what is what from what from where. propper f2's do not need anymore work.. that is why SHANTIBABA makes pure f1's because you lot all buy his shit 1 way or another,,

Utter baseless nosense, explain how its better? a breeding program is just that a breeding program that should include every tool it can to meet its specific target...

 

[Silence]

I am not talking about what it can be taken to, I am talking about comparing two siblings, which indicates the same generation.
Maybe I wasn't clear...

Assume we have three plants, two females and one male...all of the same batch of F1 seeds, so they are siblings.
We flower the male and female 1, breed them, and grow out and select one female from their progeny.
Now we flower out female 1 again, and this time pollinate her with the pollen from female 2 that we forced, and grow out and select a single female from the progeny of that mating.
The two females that we selected from both of the separate matings are going to be identical accept for phenotype expression. There would be no depressions seen in one female that the other would not also be susceptible to. Both of our selected females are nothing more than incrosses.
If we used another male sibling for the second mating, and selected a female from that mating, there would be no more difference in it than there would be with the first F/M incross, or the forced incross.

So, we have selected three females from three separate matings. There is no way to distinguish the three plants in the lab or otherwise. They are simply F2's from three separate matings.
There is no evidence that there would be any differences at all in any female from any of those three pollination's.

Agreed.

 

[Silence]

BTW, when did mother nature tell you how it was meant to be done? lol mother nature would not add a male in a given species to just look prity wise up.

then explain why mother nature can take the male away too !!!!!


on a side note does anyone know why azra'eil was silenced?

 

[bromhexine]

I am not aware of this. Do you have something that you could point to that would back up this widespread knowledge? Or perhaps you could expand on why what you claim is so?

Now see, Hempy will accuse me of being a nasty individual with poor people skills who doesn't know how to conduct themselves on a message board by asking you those questions. And I will be an even bigger asshole if you don't respond with anything of substance and I again challenge your statements.
...in any event, I am not being nasty or mean, I am simply challenging you on a statement you made. A pretty important statement to make if you were to bring anything to back it up with.

Nope I just know that I've read it all over the place but no documented evidence to show. In the fems that I've been familiar with they were quite low in vigor though it was a good end product and no hermies. Btw how many times would you have to inbreed to lose vigor to the extent that its quality considerably drops?

 

[Azra'eil]

posted by silence:
on a side note does anyone know why azra'eil was silenced ?

I have not been silenced, i don't post in this thread because i have nothing interesting to say, im just reading but i have wrote a visitor message to you silence to ask you how do you know shantibaba only use backcrossing in his programs ? you wrote he "used to" how do you know ? im curious but its a bit offtopic thats why i write to you in private. i have often asked questions to shantibaba about his parents stock because i have actually a 100+ seeds grow room of his mango haze F1 hybrid and he always told me the parents used in this line (and other lines) are building blocks stabilized lines (scuse my french i hope you understand what i write)
sincerely

Az

 

[englishrick]

hay guys,,,anyone fancy takin a crack at explaining genetic load and how it effects cannabis?????


wouldnt you guys say XX outcosses are better than XY outcrosses?,,,,,,,,they hold more info!!,,,,,recombination is not as suppressed!,,,,an "genetic load" is not increesed as mutch as with XY outcrosses,,,,,,

^^^dont that make XX outcrosses better and healthyer for the species than XY outcrosses?

99.9% of the time,, breeders use only XY,,,,is this not extreem selection?,,,[by never using XX],,,,are we all going down the same road?,,,,,dont we need 2 camps working with different objectives?

 

[Silence]

wouldn't know with regard to cannabis, but heres a read with regard to cucumbers..

http://www.scielo.br/pdf/sa/v65n5/a16v65n5.pdf

 

[Silence]

hay guys,,,anyone fancy takin a crack at explaining genetic load and how it effects cannabis?????


wouldnt you guys say XX outcosses are better than XY outcrosses?,,,,,,,,they hold more info!!,,,,,recombination is not as suppressed!,,,,an "genetic load" is not increesed as mutch as with XY outcrosses,,,,,,

^^^dont that make XX outcrosses better and healthyer for the species than XY outcrosses?

99.9% of the time,, breeders use only XY,,,,is this not extreem selection?,,,[by never using XX],,,,are we all going down the same road?,,,,,dont we need 2 camps working with different objectives?

not sure I actually follow you though with what you are saying... breeders def use XX plants, genetic load is the cost of alleles lost is it not? or the cost of having deleterious alleles in other words its the fitness, well fitness x freq (though thats simplified) .

So deleterious alleles will be brought to the forefront quicker thru selfing I believe..
so yes you can have a prefered genotype quicker

 

[englishrick]

[im just throwing this argument up in the air,,,i just want to see what sticks]



please tell me witch carries more genetic info?,,,,witch has more ability to recombine? XX inderviduals,,,,,,,or,,,,,,,XY inderviduals?

are we seeking to "mask" deleterious alleles,,,or are we looking to remove them?





emagine for a second that every outcross in the world is done with XX x XY,,,,,,,[never XX x XX],,,

imo,,^^,,,this causes perpetuation of Muller's ratchet,,,,and is this not a form of genetic load,,,,,,,,,,,wouldnt you call the rachet a degradation prosess?,,dont we want to stop this "degradation"??,,[oviously the Y is larger but i think thats because its deformed]

 

[cannaboy]

Silence is just a troll and if you have good regular stock you'll have better feminizeation capeabilitys in the future period NO COMEBACKS PLEASE!! JUST SHUT UP AND REALIZE AND AGREE OR YOUR BEING AND AWKWARD BLIND TWIT!

XX outcrosses are a stress factor IMHO and youd do better with xy just most of us noobs like in the last 15 years have never seen a good genitic build up its all crap be honest thats why your looking for bullshit in bullshit,, xx compared to xy is trying to combine and just may have a 75% most likely chance to inherit a disorder or epispastic reaction leaving you in the shit,, or do you like this sort of shit going on I just want the RAW GENETICS BACK THEY WERE UNARGUEABLY THE BEST but every1 thinks that selfing will garner these traits back when they know its bottlenecked but will argue with me till their blue in the face with a far away look in their eyes.. FACT

 

[englishrick]

hay CannaB,,,,i see your point,,,,an i agree with you!!,,,,,,i even support you to the full extent of my ability!!,,,i know you cant vebilize your understandings asgood as "some people" but i can tell what your talking about!!,,,i do respect it!!,,,,an il allways help you achive your goals as they are admarable!!,,,

eventho the details might be slightly confusing, i feel i do see the forest through the tree`s

the point i want to get across is that we need many camps,,,we need 1000`s of camps all working for the same 2 goal`s,,,"prservation and improvement of cannabis".....in this thread we are seeing the conflict of intrest between the 2 camps,,,this is cool,,,if we had a bunch of landrace farmers here in this thread they might be condeming all western breeders to hell,,,,

thank god we feel so strongly about segregation,,,hopefully this energy will carrie though into our work

basicly wat im saying is we need "conflict",,,,conflict promotes segregation and that whats actualy gona save us all in the end

imo

 

[cannaboy]

Yes rick this is basically what the problem is that we were not taught by our farthers and so on the dude schemiza was the falen angel that taught root cuttings and enchantments he was the BAD BOY!!!! but like you say the pure landrace guys will be HATING US GUYS,, look at AFGHANISTAN!!!!!!!!

I won't knock feminized seeds to grow and smoke but this should be in aim of your breeding goal to test progeny properly. (Remember SAMS drysifts his propper cured things to test as should we all)!! It does'nt matter but that is the best guide it might be shit in what case what is it being grown for to pollute further??? feminizaton isto stop people KNICKINGN PEOPLES LINES because if you do R or S them youll get SHITE just try I dare you to waste the electricity or time.. the old lines are the bumtings and ones made recently from those genetics, We the LGA have more that is Imagionable as far as elite never to get ever again goes there isnt a chance of it again stuff!!

just don't act like feminization is the wholy grail, many food stufs are done that way and lillies,, but it's because it sells... once you buy a pack of genetics its yours new forever if you keep clones what good is that to buisness men???


Just use pollen filters guys and have a heart if not a soul... I love female seeds and feminized are the bollocks but the regular garden every year is always the patch for the outcross in landrace farming technices so you are sustainable what farmer wants depression and no diversity,,, A cash indoor cropper and his mono rooms.. Thats all..

 

[englishrick]

doc made a nice play using a CriticalMass S1 to hit with XY polen,,,,trust me bro,,thets the meeting of the 2 camps,,,fukin harmony bro,,you know i love ya init

 

[Forest20]

That has to be one of the well thought out respond in a while.. thank you...sorry for jumping in....

 

[stagger lee]

hoosier you keep asking for proof in print,bring something to the table BS, but why would any1 when all your gonna say is thats wrong, he's wrong, your wrong, nothing more nothing less. Weeeeak! Ive done that 3 times quote'n 3 different books, MJ Botany,GG's Bible(your fav), and jorge C's bible. All 3 times...thats just plain wrong is all any1 will get for a reply. How about you finally bring something to the table for once.?

And the only times I give your posts a neg red dot (or whatever) is when you flip out disrepect some1 personally w/names like dipshit, ignorant asshole,ect,ect! And I'll keep doing it if you continue taking the low road, no class! Your on this site EVERYDAY you'd think you wouldve realized that people are going to have different opinions in these threads and ya know it'd kinda suck w/out having different opinions.. You have absolutely no respect for any1 w/a view other than your own, nothing more nothing less!

 

[englishrick]

lee bro,,,what is your fear with feminized seeds ?,,,,,

what is the problem with DocLeafs "Painted-Lady",,,,,funnily enough its makeup is "CriticalMass S1 [XX] x [XY] OrangeKush",,,,,,feminization was used in the earlyer work on this line [Critical S1],,,whats is the problem with it??

 

[cannaboy]

hay,,,,hooz and darwin,,,what do you think about my thoughts on "Genetic load"?

lee,,,,,im not gona tell you your wrong,,,,but i will tell you this,,,,,people who study genetics are saying very diferent things to you!!,,,an i mean this with the upmost repect ,,,this includes some of the best teachers,,,,real teachers from big uni`s dissagree with you!,,,,,,,,,what the fuk am i supposed to think bro?,,,am i supposed to abandon all my teaching an reading to side with you?,,,[with all due respect]

please tell me what are you afraid of?,,,,,,,,,,,"hermis`s"?,,,,,,how would you feel if you found out the only reason female plants will produce viable polen is because guys who use males and un-stress-tested females perpetuate the trait

i honestly dont see what yor afraid of lee,,,,,,,the road to diocity starts with sterility,,,dont you agree?

Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: I'm here...
Posts: 7,659
Quote:
Originally Posted by angel4us
Can a feminized plant be pollenated and produce viable sed ??? ???or does the feminization screw with that ability to reproduce good seed???


A school uni collage whatever is a (COLLAGE ) of information. upmost power is to decive who thinks theyre most knowledgeable ie Honours students because they will continue to teach the bullshit,,

Santa toothfairy,, 2 lies at age 1,,,

god jesus moses Mohamed the empty profet another lie.

schooling of shit to elude and take the lernerd years of life to create a self obsesdsed being thinking of made up rich mens words.

Remember no technology is new its 100.000.000.000 years old and I wont be reasoned or told otherwise because I am not a TWAT I know this stuff and I am not diluded,, or a stoner!!!!

If you learn from books then there is no hope!!! they just want the work doing and the paperwork for free,,

Respect Nobody with a degree of honours or any rank as they are pussyholes needing power you never will learn at collage only in RESEARCH of your own PERIOD!!

School is free.

Painted Lady [2009] = Critical (feminized) x W.Widow x Free Tibet (regular).

 

[hoosierdaddy]

Fuck off, stagger lee you ignorant fuck. I am tired of your stupidity.

And as far as you, cannaboy...you call me out and state I know little of nothing, yet you come in with some of the most worthless drivel.
I learn from books as well as from real world experiences. I have had real world experiences with cannabis since circa 1972. I suggest you study the fuck up and learn a thing or two, besides that hollow eurocannagangstah mentality. Oh yeah, it is real fashionable and makes for great rap lyrics, but that is about it.
I can respect you take on things, even though it too is all fucked up, but to call me out...or anyone for that matter, is way over the top..especially in light of what you are actually contributing here, which aint much.

You too are basing most of your drivel on nothing more than voodoo.
Maybe pick up a book and learn the real, instead of thinking everything is the way you perceive it. It aint.