FEDS MAY TAX POT

[minds_I]

this is monumentally wrong on many levels,....

Hello all,

Weird, I find your point of view to be clear and objective.

However, one is not necessarily forced to purchase big brothers taxed flowers.

I put to you that if country wide legalization were to occur with taxes collected from commercial storefronts there would be revenues.

However, would there not be a proliferation of backyard/closet grows to such a degree that directly effects patronage.

Afterall, I can grow more than enough for my own needs with a surplus.

My point being that why would I spend my hard earned bread at store on buds when I can produce them myself.

As I see it, the status quo is what is feeding these high prices. The industrial prison complex, law enforcement, big pharma all make money from mj's legal status. All have powerfull lobbiest doing their bidding.

So, more average Joe's growing more buds than they can smoke because it is legal....seems like a reasonable course of events. Overgrow the government.

As a result, government would not make the bucks they project.

Also, while I see no real distinction between brewing your own beer/liquor or growing your own tobacco or your own dope. I do not think the government would be able to effectively control the magnitudenal increase in personal grows to be effective in curtailing such behavior. I am speaking of small grows for personal use.

I do realize there are those that are tied to the store fronts....I wish for them that they can one day break free from the cannabis market entirely and have independance from those that profit from your malidy. Not to mention the enormous sense of pride and accomplishment of producing your own top shelf buds.

minds_I


...I just put it in my garden with my peppers and my peas and I get all the weed I need for free....

 

[DreamsofTesla]

Why Governments Don't Legalize

Why Governments Don't Legalize

Hopefully it'll start a domino effect of governments going 'hey, that gov made money from pot, we're cash strapped, we now have more cause to follow their path!'.

My understanding is that the reason a lot of countries don't legalize it is because of the DEA. There are treaties in place, etc. Put it this way, a lot of producer nations like Colombia and Mexico pay a much dearer price for the War on Drugs (TM) than we do here, and if they had the viable option, would have legalized it long ago.

Don't worry, the meter is running on this -- mark my words!

<3 Tesla

 

[Weird]

Hello all,

Weird, I find your point of view to be clear and objective.

However, one is not necessarily forced to purchase big brothers taxed flowers.

well no, but will we be legally able to produce them as freely as one produces a tomato has yet to be seen.

I put to you that if country wide legalization were to occur with taxes collected from commercial storefronts there would be revenues.

im don't object tax, I think accepting any measure with open arms regardless of the cost of said measure is simply irresponsible

we are in deficit for a reason and the reason is irresponsible government

I dont think it is outlandish for American citizens with an interest in their government their country and marijuana to want fair legislation

However, would there not be a proliferation of backyard/closet grows to such a degree that directly effects patronage.

i love the ideal but i don't see it manifesting into a reality unless it is so overburdened with tax that its value is so artificially inflated that it forces people to cultivate their own and even then i dont see the government that is trying to tax 50% giving people an out by growing their own

i also don't believe the number of individuals you think are willing to be self sufficient when they can simply buy a solution elsewhere

Afterall, I can grow more than enough for my own needs with a surplus.

My point being that why would I spend my hard earned bread at store on buds when I can produce them myself.

right on but not everyone has a green thumb or even the opportunity to grow their own, now or even in a legal climate

As I see it, the status quo is what is feeding these high prices. The industrial prison complex, law enforcement, big pharma all make money from mj's legal status. All have powerfull lobbiest doing their bidding.

ok so why should the artificial inflation of marijuana due to prohibition should be replaced with the artificial inflation of a proposed 50% tax?

So, more average Joe's growing more buds than they can smoke because it is legal....seems like a reasonable course of events. Overgrow the government.

As a result, government would not make the bucks they project.

sounds great but i dont think the average joe thinks that way, thats why so few people grow tabacco brew their own beer or distill their own booze or fix their own cars for that matter

this community, the one participating now, is made up of people who do as they will regardless and people who are largely self sufficient. this is not the norm

the more time and effort something requires the more likely people will delegate money for it if ti is not their main focus

Also, while I see no real distinction between brewing your own beer/liquor or growing your own tobacco or your own dope. I do not think the government would be able to effectively control the magnitudenal increase in personal grows to be effective in curtailing such behavior. I am speaking of small grows for personal use.

growing for self sufficiency is one part of the puzzle

if i had a magic wand i would be helping people with terminal illness grow their own medicine

the process in and of itself is healing, in fact i could write a thesis if not a dissertation on the subject

however

the government is talking about legalization and taxation for commercialization and that on that basis 50% is a grossly inappropriate on so many levels

I do realize there are those that are tied to the store fronts....I wish for them that they can one day break free from the cannabis market entirely and have independance from those that profit from your malidy. Not to mention the enormous sense of pride and accomplishment of producing your own top shelf buds.

i think there is a symbiosis between plant and man and it was one of the first post i made when i joined in 08 and for that reason and on that level i think everyone should grow their own medicine

however this is not realistic, not everyone can, not everyone wants to, not everyone can produce the results they desire

you spoke about the big industrial complexes such as big pharma now add the federally proposed 50% tax and multiple levels of taxation and regulation

now if it is going to be commercialized and profits will be made what model do you wish to see

one where government imposes taxes without any direct representation or correlation, one where only big money capitalism stands to gain

the economy is in ruins because of government mismanagement and inappropriate taxes only reward inappropriate behavior

or a model were relative sustainable tax rates are applied to help grow and sustain a new American industry

marijuana is so much more than just smoke

its a SUPERIOR crop for fuel food and fiber

there is plenty of room all levels of industry and government to participate harmoniously together to forward the interests of the American public as a whole without letting one entity gain unfair benefit or advantage

minds_I


...I just put it in my garden with my peppers and my peas and I get all the weed I need for free....

i have municipal services i pay even for water

for some people nothing is really free and for others free is a matter of perspective

be good brother thanks for sharing your views

 

[DreamsofTesla]

Taxes

Taxes

I understand the anger, truly. The first time I smoked was in 1977, and I've gone for years at a time not being able to get any. Now I need it for a medical condition and can't afford it. So believe me, I want it freely available.

They can tax it however much they like as far as I'm concerned. Taxes get renegotiated periodically, don't they? In the meanwhile, once they've changed the legal status, the genie's out of the bottle. Actually it already is, and they know it.

Besides, once it's available at stores in all 50 states, growing your own won't be worth enforcing. It'll be like underpaying sales tax, not like a SWAT raid where they shoot your dog. At that point it will be like tomatoes -- you can buy them at the store and pay taxes, or grow your own and do what you want.

The bottom line, in this old lady's eyes at least, is that we have to fight from where we are, not from where we wish we were. Don't fall for "the tyranny of the perfect." First get your foot in the door, then wedge it further and further open until the whole living room is full of pirates.

The unfortunate reality is that aside from the prison industrial complex and the alcohol industry, many other big money players (including the real estate industry) want this magical weed illegal for financial reasons. Period, click. That's the reason it's illegal. They own our government, and we all dance to their tune. That is changing, but it's still where we're at and where we have been for a long time.

Example of War on Drugs little-known effect:

Small Latin American country has untapped mineral resources, agrarian community. DEA declares that this is a heavy marijuana producing region, so we'd better send the military on a mission (CHA CHING!) to defoliate the whole area with some insane chemical (Monsanto, Dow, Du Pont CHA CHING!).

This poisons the farm land, forcing the peasants to run for their lives. Their government takes a kickback from our corporate government (CHA CHING!), and gives mining rights on the "abandoned" land to other huge corporations (CHA CHING!) leaving the poor people to go f*ck themselves because they just lost a game of chemical warfare under the ruse of a War on Drugs.

Anybody who hasn't seen the documentary "American Drug War" should really check it out, it's available for free on You Tube. The whole thing is nothing but a war on the poor, worldwide. Dismantling this snakepit of corruption, greed and ruthless destruction is no mean feat, but it's happening right now.

Celebrate, the end of prohibition is near.

<3 Tesla

 

[Slim Pickens]

$50 tax on an ounce?So typical of the Government,,don't legalize because it is the right thing to do..that it will help end senseless violence,,,that it will keep countless numbers from going to jail over a plant...so that it won't keep kids from getting student loans to go to college because of a simple possession bust...nope,they will do it for money.

This country is fecked up for sure.

 

[vertigo0007]

$50 tax on an ounce?So typical of the Government,,don't legalize because it is the right thing to do..that it will help end senseless violence,,,that it will keep countless numbers from going to jail over a plant...so that it won't keep kids from getting student loans to go to college because of a simple possession bust...nope,they will do it for money.

This country is fecked up for sure.

You forgot the 'our' in between 'for' and 'money'....

 

[ICbuds]

there's no place like home

 

[Jbonez]

We need to pass fake cuts to corporate when this shit goes live....

 

[cobcoop]

The feds are already taxing weed sales. Ask any dispensary that has gotten visits from the IRS.

 

[HidingInTheHaze]

We need to pass fake cuts to corporate when this shit goes live....

There will always be people out there willing to sell what ever to who ever if the price is right. Most of the cuts out there in such abundance the damage is already done. Not like the old days when the top cuts were held tight and only spread to people that would maintain them and not whore them out.

A lot of these clones are going to end up like the Dutch Tulip bubble, shit got out of hand, prices got crazy then the bubble popped and then the prices crashed.

 

[chef]

Why I always have a couple special ones hoarded

 

[anudda]

been saying this for years, if the feds get involved in the Cannabis Industry it will be the same as ALL Other Industries --- the govt will back big business, and crowd out the little guy.
that's how world economy and modern-governments were designed and have been operating for almost 200 years....

....the only difference is cannabis has a huge underground, that will not die from these corporate induced laws.

to me the scariest thing is if they legalize Federally --- they will get an increased budget for busting growers -- but this time it will be for not growing "by the law" ,
under those circumstances the penalties and convictions will be "justified" by the feds and alot of folks are going to be worse off than before.... this also creates HUGE Patent Potential for monsanto and all the other assholes who think they own life. dispensary/home raids because they are growing a cut who's patent is owned by someone else .... etc etc

Hemp is going to suffer the worst. the feds want control before we have a Hemp market in the USA, because once Hemp is legalized BIG Business will take ALL the credit for saving our economy!!!
They know they can suck tax dollars from medical/legal smoking herb ... but they also know they have to compete with the underground/Us .... if they get control of hemp they have a humongous market all to themselves....

Not trying to start arguments or say anyone is right or wrong. this is just the simple truth....

if anyone is interested in supporting the underground hemp initiatives in this country, i suggest you wait till this autumn when a new community dedicated to such is finally open to the public (and no longer invite only)

 

[DreamsofTesla]

Feds and enforcement

Feds and enforcement

to me the scariest thing is if they legalize Federally --- they will get an increased budget for busting growers -- but this time it will be for not growing "by the law" ,

How so? How would that work?

For example, if I grow tobacco in my front yard and smoke homegrown rather than buying at the store, is ATF coming to kick my door in? What if I brew my own beer? For large commercial grows, probably yes, or if you start a retail brewery. But the dynamics will have changed drastically.

<3 Tesla

 

[anudda]

EDIT -- Jbonez and Cobcoop --- excellent posts brothers!!!!!!!!!!!

to me the scariest thing is if they legalize Federally --- they will get an increased budget for busting growers -- but this time it will be for not growing "by the law" ,

How so? How would that work?

any activities by the feds that generate income for the feds, are encouraged and emphasized.
they've been sucking tax money to bust illegal growers, & will continue to do so.
but if there's "legal" way to grow ONTOP of "illegal" growing -- we suddenly have twice the market for them to regulate. and vastly more On The Books who can easily be controlled, because they are on the books.

my guess is the DEA or ATF, and even IRS in some cases (tax/permit evasion), would be in charge of such a task, but they very well could create a whole new agency just to enforce the new laws... no idea when, all depends on how big it gets.

talk to anyone who runs/owns a business or pays taxes, if you dont follow procedure and catch you, they will fuck you. why would cannabis be different, its just another valuable-potential commodity to them.

once apon a time the ATF and DEA were created to control substances in the public eye (cocaine opiates alcohol tobacco) because they were SO popular in the public eye. the tides have changed and now cannabis is more acceptable in many places than even Tobacco. now we have many more people and much more money at stake, makes it all the more reasonable.

For example, if I grow tobacco in my front yard and smoke homegrown rather than buying at the store, is ATF coming to kick my door in? What if I brew my own beer? For large commercial grows, probably yes, or if you start a retail brewery. But the dynamics will have changed drastically.

no of course not. but you answered your own question... if you start making money off of it, and you don't share with big brother the way the law says, they gonna make you pay double jack.

and now they say we're in/have been in economic trouble, why wouldnt they? huge resource to be tapped, they've been biding they're time... big tobacco biz (and others) have been preparing for years.... and who works for them/they work for? the ones who make the laws.... and they've got monopolies on all other commodities ... why would this be different.

 

[mean mr.mustard]

MAY!?!?!?!!!!

May??

They are already taxing the everlovingfuckityfuck out of us.

The real question is what currency are we willing to pay in.

I'd rather give them their hollow dollars back for freedom.

I don't want to pay taxes for shit weed at no benefit to us.

We've already given them more than they give us.

Lives are worth more than money.

Give us our prisoners back and have your taxes Uncle Sam...

The colonists were legally bound to grow cannabis for love's sake!

America's forefathers wanted her to have hemp as well as freedom from taxation without representation.

Enough to write our birth onto it's very fibers at the least...

We just want to do our part it's time to see our government do its....

A compromise is a compromise and enough is enough...

Pleeeeeease???

 

[sunset limited]

it ain't MY government.
chances are, it isn't yours either.

but you know what? as much as i hate to think that a single minute of my labor and craft ever goes to fund the pigs or prisons or the war machine, if $1000 per annum plus another $800 per unit is the price i have to pay not to worry about the bastards kicking down my door or catching another charge if i blast a motherfucker who comes through my door with ill will, then i'll pony the fuck up and call it a bargain.

 

[DreamsofTesla]

big tobacco biz (and others) have been preparing for years.... and who works for them/they work for? the ones who make the laws.... and they've got monopolies on all other commodities ... why would this be different.

Right, I think if the big money boys didn't have a way to dip their beaks in, CO and WA wouldn't have happened. Our consent is no longer required (hasn't been for a long time), I think a lot of us see that.

The difference, though, well there's a few.

• The only thing keeping weed illegal in many countries around the world is the DEA Schedule 1. Basically if they don't want to get on our bad side they have to keep it illegal, no matter how illogical and destructive. So once we get it changed here, it's Pandora's box worldwide.
  

• The reason this is enforced so harshly is that it's a ruse. It really has nothing to do with marijuana. It's about moving money around. They're not going to be able to keep that dynamic happening even with taxing it at 100%, not that insane amount of trillions. They know this.

• Once it's legal at the fed level, they have to dismantle the whole thing, which is going to completely shake all the gangsters behind it -- chemical, weapons, mining, pharmaceutical, alcohol, law enforcement, and let's not forget Wall Street who make billions laundering money. Why not? They're too big to prosecute. Then again, we're dandelions.
  

• Different also because as witnessed on this board, there are so many individual growers, many more than there were moonshiners. Also, the drunk isn't that different between whiskey and vodka, but the indica/sativa difference is great. Our community has every motivation to grow thousands of different plants for different reasons (not even including hemp). And we've been doing it for many years. I mean look, we have people growing in old refrigerators, that's dedication. How will they stop that? Once they break apart the machine, game over, period.

So for me? I think if we can get it legalized under any conditions, it's a major win. Tweaking it from there will be a breeze.

Just my 2 cents.

<3 Tesla

 

[vapedg13]

They need to tax the fuck out of retail operations (dispensaries), and leave the grower the fuck alone. Its the retail ops making stupid unjustified profits that need to be put in check.

hahaha..... thats a stupid statement...mmj stores have to buy most of their supplies from growers.....and what growers should be able to sell it to the stores without paying any taxes

They already tax the fuck out of mmj stores...they are not allowed 1 Federal business tax deduction...no expenses payroll supplies nothing


...Shit Washington State is gunna have it set up to collect 85% in taxes on marijuana by the time the consumers get it



A 3 tier system....producer hit with 25%.....processor hit with 25% .... the retailer with hit 25% pus the 10% sales tax

a person can hold the producer and processor licenses but they have to pay 50% in taxes to the state....

BUT

you can NOT have the retail license in conjunction with either of the other 2 licenses

If the Feds choose to tax marijuana 50% .....thats 135% in taxes added on

I did the math.... if you make 1,000,000 in sales of marijuana and the govenements get to tax it like they want to .... that leaves $185,000 we get to keep

 

[Hydrosun]

it ain't MY government.
chances are, it isn't yours either.

but you know what? as much as i hate to think that a single minute of my labor and craft ever goes to fund the pigs or prisons or the war machine, if $1000 per annum plus another $800 per unit is the price i have to pay not to worry about the bastards kicking down my door or catching another charge if i blast a motherfucker who comes through my door with ill will, then i'll pony the fuck up and call it a bargain.

Yeah maybe pony up $800 per unit on say every 10th unit, pretend to be all square and dossile, but keep 90% of production off the books; That sounds like the AmeriKan way of life that I have grown to understand.

 

[SpasticGramps]

Gotta pay for Obamacare and entitlements somehow.

Taxes are outrageous. The black market will remain strong.

As our broke fascist government tries to squeeze blood out of the turnip the black market in everything will continue to grow as taxes for everything will rise.

C'mon guys. It's just generational theft. Gubbermint loves you.

Fuck the FEDS.