Everybody a breeder ?

[stickshift]

sounds shite, this thread has gone from education to a wank off..... @weird you're just a fucking moron.

 

[Lemon Larry]

Results

Results

sounds shite, this thread has gone from education to a wank off..... @weird you're just a fucking moron.

money talks and bullshit walks ! the bottom line is RESULTS....
this thred remids me blind alegence "jim jones" i mean stickshift
abc is easy as 123, cut the bullshit and lets take to the the lab....
real results from tom and wierd is what i want, i am solid in
my opion but without the results, i just don't know ?
i personally think the results would be stark in comparrison
if not shocking ! i am talking about ratios and % ie "lab",IC pics
stickshift stay off the koolaid dude !

 

[N. Accumbens]

I am definitely a breeder, in the broadest sense of the term.

Due date: 4/20

Needless to say say, finding a specimen with outstanding characteristics was not an easy process. Long and arduous to say the lest.

Scientific technique is a very vast concept. Theres a subtle difference between scientific methods be they quantum or relativist based - what seems most important in our case is the outcome which is surmisably related to the path taken to achieve the goal.

Science is just a word to be utmostly revised over time.

Theres the science they teach at schools, and then the science they use at CERN - two very different sciences, in many respects. In one case the goal is control in the latter case the goal is more geared towards future funding, you can bet the sciences used are respective of these goals.

Once upon a time, what we call science today was surely referred to as magic - this suggests that what we call magic today, may one day be considered scientific technique.

It would amuse me to see someone whom swears they can always tell the difference.

Surely though we do need something to base todays opinions on...

Lets look at the split slot (Youngs) experiment - scientific method used to show that our current scientific method is virtually useless at ascertaining "scientific" results. Using scientific method to "disprove" the validity of scientific method seems about the farthest along weve managed to get.

Paradox of life... methinks so.

-Nacc

PS- Intuition is a scientific technique - we just dont have a method to "calculate" how this works as of yet. Id bet my socks it boils down to emf but then again thats what we have science for - as our methods change and expand along lines of entropy and such- so will our results.

The word science is correct, its the definition that needs working on...

Science- the art of knowledge

Knowledge - knowing where the ledge ends and the abyss begins...

 

[Tom Hill]

Oh snap, hello my darling,

Did I just get caught playing with the boys after dark?

Rub that belly and say hello to little Tom from daddy,
tell him I am working on making the world a better place for
us all. Floundering a bit from time to time, but sigh, trying.
I Love You.

You guys think I am a pain in your asses, just wait till you meet my son, lol.

 

[stickshift]

money talks and bullshit walks ! the bottom line is RESULTS....
this thred remids me blind alegence "jim jones" i mean stickshift
abc is easy as 123, cut the bullshit and lets take to the the lab....
real results from tom and wierd is what i want, i am solid in
my opion but without the results, i just don't know ?
i personally think the results would be stark in comparrison
if not shocking ! i am talking about ratios and % ie "lab",IC pics
stickshift stay off the koolaid dude !

Not a word! learn to spell (because that is shocking)do you have halitosis from talking shit? as well your spelling being atrocious? Tom has lines out that have stood the test of time, hence others have crossed to them and released the resulting hybrids.. and others have just plain ripped his shit off! Are people doing that to what weird has to offer us? what will this tell us? we could just go look at some of TomHills grows from the past or in one of the outdoor threads etc.. how you gonna do this wank off? you gonna be making sure both growers have the exact same environments? this is just horseshit that proves other than certain people are idiots, nothing!!!! I'll tell you what you are talking Lemon friggin Larry - SHIT!

 

[Tom Hill]

Oh come on guys I would just use marker assisted tech etc and smoke him to pieces, and he would just use his newly acquired knowledge of genotyping via selfing etc, and finally get somewhere. Btw, is it cool if the "seed" I send in look like frog eggs?

 

[HidingInTheHaze]

Hey Tom, any chance PTK will ever be resurrected?

 

[Tom Hill]

HitH, yes I'll get around to it one of these days, but my plate is filled with many other projects currently, and the regeneration of that stock is not due for a couple years yet. In the meantime, I do believe there's a few guys that still have stock on the boards etc. Poke around some if you're into it. -T

 

[YosemiteSam]

Why, is there really any doubt that peoples selections will improve by taking advantage of the known maths/science? Is there really any doubt that dissenting opinions on that are just people defending their current ignorance on the matter, and/or making excuses to get out of furthering their education of the subject?

Las Vegas makes a fortune on feelings vs statistics. Apparently a whole lotta people believe what they believe in spite of statistical modeling. My guess is that is not changing anytime soon.

 

[HidingInTheHaze]

HitH, yes I'll get around to it one of these days, but my plate is filled with many other projects currently, and the regeneration of that stock is not due for a couple years yet. In the meantime, I do believe there's a few guys that still have stock on the boards etc. Poke around some if you're into it. -T

I'll keep an eye out, even if it takes a few years. Been after a true pine for quite some time.

 

[pip313]

Tom hill's way is scientific and gives much more consistent results. ( Edit: after thinking about it i doubt he can sequence genes and even if he could its not a book you can just read)

That being said weird is not wrong in what he is saying. Science does not help in taste tests like human observation does. Breeding any two good plants will make plants that are better and plants that are worse. Then you select great offspring and start over. It works thats how we got large breasted chickens, huge cattle, corn, and damn near every food we farm has had that done for thousands of years.

In other words unnatural selection works its just not fast or consistent in the first few generations.

 

[Adze]

Tom,
“Cool” isn’t a strong enough word. If you’re closing on this I would say absolutely fantastic! Talk about a product that’s a game changer. You’ll leave the rest of crowd in the dust, wondering what hit them. I would love to hear more about those frog eggs...

 

[Weird]

Oh come on guys I would just use marker assisted tech etc and smoke him to pieces, and he would just use his newly acquired knowledge of genotyping via selfing etc, and finally get somewhere. Btw, is it cool if the "seed" I send in look like frog eggs?

did you use it in any of your other breeding projects?

btw the stuff i posted bred in the 90s was selfed before the internet and i learned about it by reading mel frank not you or a geneticist/scientist

let me guess you taught mel frank so you'll be right in the end anyway

 

[Tom Hill]

No, there's not really any advantage for it in preserving open pollinated lines that I can see.

 

[Tom Hill]

Do you think -and I mean even for a millisecond- that your selections could not be vastly improved upon by utilizing more advanced proven selection methods?

 

[pip313]

You belive he has one? Really? Ok if he does then he needs to take a 6 week indica and make sure the genes that control flower time are put into straight sativa strains then he needs to back cross it to remove all indica genes besides the needed flowering time ones. You know how much a true 6 week sativa would sell? If he could he would but all breeders are full of it. Yea he manipulates genes by sequencing genomes and confirming that specific genes are there when not even harvard could tell you what genes do what to the degree that he would need.

After a few billion dollars the cattle industry can sequence for growth, milk production, and some diseases. Dont let any breeder tell you he can read the genes for every one of the hundred possible terpenes, and the rest of the traits on a couple hundred thousand dollar research and equipment budget.

Breeders are like nutrient companies yes their products are nice but they are not the special voodoo they make you think they are.

 

[Tom Hill]

btw the stuff i posted bred in the 90s was selfed before the internet and i learned about it by reading mel frank not you or a geneticist/scientist

let me guess you taught mel frank so you'll be right in the end anyway

You learned about genotyping by way of selfing and its relevance/advantage in a breeding program, from Mel Frank? Reference please? I would like to read it, sincerely.

 

[stickshift]

I think this was in Mel franks book (the 1996 version)...

18.3 Producing Female Seeds
If it were possible to know which seeds are female and which are male, marijuana growing would be even simpler than
it is. There is not practical way to discern the gender of a seed - but there is a simpler procedure for producing seeds
that will all grow into female plants.
To produce female seeds, the plants are fertilised with pollen with male flowers that appear on a basically female plant.
Such flowers appear on intersexes, reversed females, and hermaphrodites (see section 17). Female plants have an XX
complement of sex chromosomes; therefore, the pollen from the male flowers that form on female plants can only carry
an X chromosome. All seeds produced from flowers fertilised with this "female" pollen will thus have an XX pair of sex
chromosomes, which is the female genotype.
Although the male Cannabis plant can produce female flowers, it cannot produce seed; so there is no chance of
mistakenly producing seed on a male plant. It is possible to use pollen from an intersexual plant that is basically male
(XY); the resulting crop of seeds will have the normal 1:1 ratio of males to females. For this reason, choose a plant that
is distinctly female as a pollen source. A female plant with a few random male-flower clusters, or a female plant that has
reversed sex are both good pollen sources. The seed bearer can be any female, female intersex, or reversed-female
plant.
In most crops, careful inspection of all the females usually reveals a few male flowers. And often, when females are left
flowering for an extended period of time, some male flowers will develop. If no male flowers form, you can help to
induce male flowers on female plants by severe pruning. One such procedure is to take the bulk of the harvest, but to
leave behind some green leaves to maintain growth (as described in the section on "Double Harvests" in section 20).
Most of the plants will continue to form female flowers, but male flowers are also likely to form. At times, the plants may
not grow particularly well, and may in fact form distorted and twisted leaves, but they will produce viable seeds as long
as some stigmas were white when pollinated. (Remember, it only takes a few fertile buds to produce hundreds of
seeds.) Pollinate the female flowers by hand as soon as pollen becomes available.
{Figure 82. A solitary male flower on a female plant provides "female"
pollen. (Also see Figure 84 for a female reversing sex.)}
{Figure 83. Growth may not be vigorous, but seeds will form if stigmas are
white when pollinated.}
Under artificial lights, turn the light cycle down to eight hours after cutting the plants back. The short cycle helps to
induce male flowers on female plants.
Male-free seed can also be produced by pollen from a natural hermaphrodites. The progeny, however, may inherit the
hermaphroditic trait, resulting in a crop with some hermaphrodites as well as females. This could be a problem if you
want to grow sinsemilla the next crop.file:///C|/Documents%20and%20Settings/Glasshopper/My%20Documents/Entheo/Cann/Prosper.html (124 of 158)4/23/2006 11:09:19 PM
THE MARIJUANA GROWER'S GUIDE..........by Mel Frank & Ed Rosenthal

but that was it!

 

[pip313]

"You learned about genotyping by way of selfing and its relevance/advantage in a breeding program, from Mel Frank? Reference please? I would like to read it, sincerely."


XX crossed with XX will always give XX. Xx crossed with Xx will give Xx xx and XX. Basic biology. Crossing a plant with its self to see if it has two dominate genes for a trait is not rocket science.

No plant is true breeding for every trait, please do not imply your plants are and if they really are then anyone can plant any male and female of one of you strains and produce the exact same strain as you as your seeds are true breeding. Therefore negating your argument that gene sequencing is needed.

Also thank-you for indirectly confirming you hermie all of your plants as part of you breeding or in other words all of your strains are hermie prone.

 

[Tom Hill]

Yes well, maybe Weird still doesn't get it, truth be told I wouldn't doubt it.


..and pip I never said the things you're saying, but keep talking, you have at least a couple more months free reign to do so before the smell of doodoo coming out of your mouth will become unbearable