T
Everybody a breeder ?
- Thread starter silverhazefiend
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Tom bro...you know that you changed my way of thinking re all this
but...how can feeling be expressed mathmatically?
a pentagram? wtf?? whre´s the skill, the art of the breeder in an equation... a fckn pentagram?
You know I play guitar you know I can´t read a pentagram first sight
biglove man
....Frank was never here, maaaaaannnnn.....
Regardless, Tom, myself and others remember and what we discussed...
dank.Frank
Biglove back at you hermano Raco.
I know that you are an artist as well, and a damn fine one too I might add. Call your taste in smoke or music X. And X being expressed to what degree very much depends on method/science/maths. It's pretty worthless comparatively to have taste if you have a weak-ass means to express it. Many people here are trying to play guitar with no arms/fingers, and think their taste in music will somehow carry them through. It won't, they ain't Jimi etc, and their examples of success throughout history are as rare as Hendrix compared to the failures throughout history. It's like they're gambling addicts, and only remember the times they won - or that;s how they like to remember it anyway. What I am talking about is fuck all that, be the house, skew the odds massively in your favor, and know your going to win -know those notes in your head will come out crystal clear.
I know that you are an artist as well, and a damn fine one too I might add. Call your taste in smoke or music X. And X being expressed to what degree very much depends on method/science/maths. It's pretty worthless comparatively to have taste if you have a weak-ass means to express it. Many people here are trying to play guitar with no arms/fingers, and think their taste in music will somehow carry them through. It won't, they ain't Jimi etc, and their examples of success throughout history are as rare as Hendrix compared to the failures throughout history. It's like they're gambling addicts, and only remember the times they won - or that;s how they like to remember it anyway. What I am talking about is fuck all that, be the house, skew the odds massively in your favor, and know your going to win -know those notes in your head will come out crystal clear.
Cool jejej
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAd_CfDm8K4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbndgwfG22k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JsD6uEZsIsU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAd_CfDm8K4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbndgwfG22k
-know those notes in your head will come out crystal clear.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JsD6uEZsIsU
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I donno Tom, always when I tried manipulating the Universe, terrible things happened. ^^
well ya need to strap your seatbelt around your shoulder, and make sure you have the right "tools" offthehook http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbAZPHtDIY0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbAZPHtDIY0
We now interrupt this thread to light the "ALL PUFF" sign.
Smoke if you got it.
peace -fb
Smoke if you got it.
peace -fb
lyrics in the end: ... you just found us an other way to get us to where we're going...
My parody on that would be: ...But I'm just tired to sense the way, of where we're going...
(No critic aimed at your methodes Tom, It's just a song that made me aware of some larger context)
My parody on that would be: ...But I'm just tired to sense the way, of where we're going...
(No critic aimed at your methodes Tom, It's just a song that made me aware of some larger context)
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why not answer questions yes or not black or white?
why keep on asking the same question because no one is doubting scietific technique your just not proving it to be the mutually exclusive component of breeding success
and you know that you just like asking the same question over and over again is acting as a smoke screen to the heart of the issue
two main points that there is value in the "art" of selection and that science has to be understood at a collegiate level for it to be actualized or applied
do you doubt that people were getting the benefits of science before they read about it? was it mendelian science or mel frank's anecdotal observations that taught me the value of selfing?
the observation that the indoor environment effects ratios and pools is scientifically supported, I proved it using quantitative genetics when you insisted it be "by the book"
did I read the book to experience the benefit or did I understand the benefit i observed after i read the book?
you can measure the "art" of selection as well as you can measure the application of science
unless your GW pharma they are not mutually exclusive
but if we wanted to make a real simple set of logical statements we could come to the following conclusion
that the "art" of selection is more important than the science
how do we proof this simply?
it is the chemical phenotype people buy seed for not the physical phenotype
people buy weed to smoke it
if someone breeds using science only, visual traits like resin coverage, yield, maturation period,can be reinforced but they might not be preserving that chemical phenotype
if someone breeds only using smoke test and "intuitive" methods they will have a greater chance of replicating that chemical phenotype simply because it is part of the selection criteria
the "smoke" test goes much deeper imho but im not trying to make anything more than it actually is
what weights people put on certain specifics are their own
there are plenty of grow guides/breeding guides that help bridge the science gap but there is nothing that will teach you how to understand the variety of chemical phenotypes like the smoking experience
what type of breeding? pot or reptiles or humans I have success in all three
how is relative to the genetics in question why is because i want to preserve genetics or i want to blend them
bro its simple
phenotype = genetics + environment
some of us have been growing long enough to recognize patterns and causation
some people have no practical experience and can only go by what is said and whether they understand it or not
now there are 3 types of contributions in this thread
A) plenty of people who didn't employ the same intensive scientific technique saying they didn't experiences the same failure rates
B) Tom extolling the benifits of science
C) a bunch of dudes who haven't breed (successfully or not) who are reliant on other peoples seeds ( no proof of self sufficiency) who are forming opinions based on what they read
im not hearing the horror stories of breeding gone wrong or how people wasted their times completely
And if people were to say hey i bought seed and the results sucked it still isnt the scientific method
you can have all the skills in teh world it means nothing when it comes down to your integrity as a human being
there are plenty of guys with skill that fuck up or fuck people over, skill does not equate to integrity
and in a largely illegal market were the breeders aren't scientists or scientifically trained it is ironic that it becomes the "defining" factor in success
Tom
if phenotypes are environmentally cued how MUCH does an indoor environment effect the phenotype variance?
if that environment is the environment preferred by the phenotypes you seek how does that change the odds?
it is a matter of quantitative genetics not Mendelian genetics because they cant be quantified in the same manner, i gave you the science and the sources to calculate the difference
I don't need science to tell me what I see is true but if you find it so necessary to do so please do it and stop saying that people are contending science no one is
just your claims regarding its use, people didn't completely fail without it they just didnt have an increased set of odds in improving it
if phenotypes are environmentally cued how MUCH does an indoor environment effect the phenotype variance?
if that environment is the environment preferred by the phenotypes you seek how does that change the odds?
it is a matter of quantitative genetics not Mendelian genetics because they cant be quantified in the same manner, i gave you the science and the sources to calculate the difference
I don't need science to tell me what I see is true but if you find it so necessary to do so please do it and stop saying that people are contending science no one is
just your claims regarding its use, people didn't completely fail without it they just didnt have an increased set of odds in improving it
is possible to turn this into a grow off
a tomhill vs wierd grow off with % results made here
includeing a lab test and pics
i LOVE this idea but lets do it in a way that PROVES application of scientific technique is of such prime importance
let me choose using ANECDOTAL evidence a scenario I know will prove my point
let the target grower be CFL growers and the target strains the hybrid i made using the "art" of selection and we will use Tom's pure haze as the scientifically sound strain to grow against
ill gift some beans for this
and we can how worthwhile each endeavor ends up being
lets see how many acceptable phenotypes are found in each one and base that on ability for the smoke to relieve pain or anxiety
im willing to admit im wrong and that science is everything
but only in a scenario where it will be easy to tell
if scientific technique is so FUCKING important and everything else simply doesnt matter lets see it in pan out in this scenario
once again no one contested his expertise just his ascertainment that it is science technique that make him an expert or anyone else for that matter
whole bunch of other variables that matter as well
ahh the relativity of it all
flame away
And one more time just to make sure it's dead
Sounds great, and I totally hope Tom will accept the grow off. Though now that you specify it should help mostly with pain & anxiety, I think it would be fair to let Tom choose himself wich of his strains to put up for contest.
I'm sure that thread will have high entertainment value ^^
> subbed in advance, LOL
I'm sure that thread will have high entertainment value ^^
> subbed in advance, LOL
replace it with medical indica hybrid or similar bar
the point is depending on the scenario scientific technique is not the only important criteria
that simple and one that puts the mendelian genetic concept to the test
the best strain for a CFL environment is one bred in it or for it and guess what no one of Tom Hills caliber is going to breed one if it si not to their liking to do so
even his search for the perfect pure haze was driven by his taste and desire to find the same not because science told him
and what made him decide what was the best of what he thought that strain could do
did he read it in a book or was it his experience that told him that ?
environment and genetics are huge in the calculation of odds as well as trait selection and the factors they play are relative
so there is no one tech that will answer what makes a breeder because they are all contingent on other factors bring relativity and subjectivity into the formula
this can be measured too but it would take a ton of effort and cooperation and more than name calling and saying you just dont understand
i have my suspicions on why the answer isn't being put on teh table
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