Entry-level CO2 Extraction

[leroy_jenkins]

Quick question--how long does the entire run take? The quoted figures from Apex is 8 hours.

From what I understand the 8 hour run times apply to the larger machines, the 5L, 20L etc. I was also told that Apeks has only ever sold 1 5000psi machine and thats because there isn't any terpenes etc which come through at that pressure range

Our 1L 1500psi unit can run at either 1,2,3, or 4 hour runs, with 4 hours being the most return and no discernable quality difference.

 

[leroy_jenkins]

From what I understand the 8 hour run times apply to the larger machines, the 5L, 20L etc. I was also told that Apeks has only ever sold 1 5000psi machine and thats because there isn't any terpenes etc which come through at that pressure range

Our 1L 1500psi unit can run at either 1,2,3, or 4 hour runs, with 4 hours being the most return and no discernable quality difference.

I (somehow) forgot to mention that 4 hours does not include gas recovery time, about an hour, or cleanup/maintenance, about 40 minutes per run.

 

[Gray Wolf]

I told her I'd be up right around noon.

Got you down. Ask her to call me when you arrive!

 

[leroy_jenkins]

Got you down. Ask her to call me when you arrive!

Grey Wolf, I must sincerely apologize. I will not be making the trip tomorrow as I originally planned but will be in the very near future. I definitely want to meet up with you, and would still like to extend my invitation to have you come to our lab. Can you PM me your contact info?

 

[Gray Wolf]

Grey Wolf, I must sincerely apologize. I will not be making the trip tomorrow as I originally planned but will be in the very near future. I definitely want to meet up with you, and would still like to extend my invitation to have you come to our lab. Can you PM me your contact info?

Done.

 

[509strain]

Thanks RHH, I still have the unit, and who knows, might tinker with it more. Perhaps with a bit higher pressure the yields could be better. I'd really love for it to work, but unless I can produce an oz of oil from $20-40 bucks worth of co2, it's going to be tough to justify. In order to raise the pressure up beyond 1800, I would need to manually close off the extraction tube, and heat it up to 2500-4000psi, extract until the pressure drops a bit, then repeat...which adds a ton of time to the entire process. With BHO, that 8oz. of plant material could be blasted and purged in a fraction of the time it takes to just extract it with this CO2 machine. The company also has since disappeared...

How would you recommend polishing an extract with this system?

In my opinion Scalawag, it's mostly political. But after reading about a couple busts with the big boy CO2 machines... making BHO with a CLS seems like the better investment for the money and time involved.

I bumped into this thread wanted to kindle it up for some info, anything new on this open loop set up ?? Whats the maxx psi rating on the extraction vessel ? I think im gonna take my Mechanical engineering skills/shop and fork off from this set up i did some research and the company that designed this is no longer in business so it is what it is I got a ton of experience in this industry i will post up my work here. Hope i can be an assistance on helping ya all out.

 

[Gray Wolf]

I bumped into this thread wanted to kindle it up for some info, anything new on this open loop set up ?? Whats the maxx psi rating on the extraction vessel ? I think im gonna take my Mechanical engineering skills/shop and fork off from this set up i did some research and the company that designed this is no longer in business so it is what it is I got a ton of experience in this industry i will post up my work here. Hope i can be an assistance on helping ya all out.

Playing with the JYNdustriez passive system demonstrated that you need high CO2 volume exchange, better control of the pressure curve, and the ability to fractionate on the way down, to achieve optimal results.

I moved on to pumped systems, as did Johnyar with his designs, before accepting employment elsewhere in the field. His last designs used CAT pumps to move liquid CO2.

He is a fine fellow, and if you can find him, I suggest you pick his keen alleged minds for the intimate engineering details.

 

[whereisbrianV.]

I run a 5000 psi Apeks daily and rarely run over 1800 psi. My best extracts come from loads ran below 15c and around 1100 psi.

The volumes of virgin Co2 needed to extract effectivly can only be obtained by large volumes of liquid or fast distillation rates.

Existing Co2 extraction machines fail to start with enough volume of liquid co2 to properly extract large volumes of oils quickly.

To make up for this the extract machine flows a constant trickle into the separation chamber. This trickle of liquid turns to gas and is compressed and condensed back into liquid. That condensed liquid is your main factor of cycle time as it functions as flow and fresh solvent supply. What should be a hour cycle turns to 8 hour cycles just to save money on larger tanks and a pump.

If you want better yeilds add ethyl @ml/10 grams of material. This also increases the disinfectant effects of co2 ten fold.

Adding DE powder to your extract column will help pull some free water from your extract.

 

[509strain]

Playing with the JYNdustriez passive system demonstrated that you need high CO2 volume exchange, better control of the pressure curve, and the ability to fractionate on the way down, to achieve optimal results.

I moved on to pumped systems, as did Johnyar with his designs, before accepting employment elsewhere in the field. His last designs used CAT pumps to move liquid CO2.

He is a fine fellow, and if you can find him, I suggest you pick his keen alleged minds for the intimate engineering details.

I have tried to reach out but his web site is down and he doesn't answer his you tube page which doesn't surprise me most engineers don't really like to share to much info. I think i will incorporate a pump which should give me more over all control of the pressure/temp/solvent while still maintaining a open loop purging solution. I'm going to start by using a high pressure scuba tank as Johnyar used in his early stages for all my testing once i get all the numbers right i will start to construct my Stainless version. Thanks for the advice.

 

[509strain]

I run a 5000 psi Apeks daily and rarely run over 1800 psi. My best extracts come from loads ran below 15c and around 1100 psi.

The volumes of virgin Co2 needed to extract effectivly can only be obtained by large volumes of liquid or fast distillation rates.

Existing Co2 extraction machines fail to start with enough volume of liquid co2 to properly extract large volumes of oils quickly.

To make up for this the extract machine flows a constant trickle into the separation chamber. This trickle of liquid turns to gas and is compressed and condensed back into liquid. That condensed liquid is your main factor of cycle time as it functions as flow and fresh solvent supply. What should be a hour cycle turns to 8 hour cycles just to save money on larger tanks and a pump.

If you want better yeilds add ethyl @ml/10 grams of material. This also increases the disinfectant effects of co2 ten fold.

Adding DE powder to your extract column will help pull some free water from your extract.

Great info thanks a ton!!

 

[Gray Wolf]

I have tried to reach out but his web site is down and he doesn't answer his you tube page which doesn't surprise me most engineers don't really like to share to much info. I think i will incorporate a pump which should give me more over all control of the pressure/temp/solvent while still maintaining a open loop purging solution. I'm going to start by using a high pressure scuba tank as Johnyar used in his early stages for all my testing once i get all the numbers right i will start to construct my Stainless version. Thanks for the advice.

Sorry, my bad!

Johnyar and I've always had relatively open communications, with sharing going both ways, but have had none since he closed.

I do know he was getting a bit thin with brothers trying to exploit him, so with the time demands and non disclosure requirements of his new job, may have given up answering requests altogether.........

Good idea on the pump, and as WV notes, CO2 tank volume and recovery rates are key factors determining cycle speed.

From the samples that Patrick from Eden Labs has shared with me, fractionating during decompression is another direction I would suggest you explore.

Last time I talked to him, he still had his sense of humor and was still sharing.

 

[509strain]

Sorry, my bad!

Johnyar and I've always had relatively open communications, with sharing going both ways, but have had none since he closed.

I do know he was getting a bit thin with brothers trying to exploit him, so with the time demands and non disclosure requirements of his new job, may have given up answering requests altogether.........

Good idea on the pump, and as WV notes, CO2 tank volume and recovery rates are key factors determining cycle speed.

From the samples that Patrick from Eden Labs has shared with me, fractionating during decompression is another direction I would suggest you explore.

Last time I talked to him, he still had his sense of humor and was still sharing.

No I expect the worse when online fishing around for info maybe even a bit pessimistic and unsure but this site is great very informative and helpful I really appreciate the follow up and hopefully insight to what i bring to the table. I'm looking into the science behind fractionating during decompression Its been on my mind knowing its a key component shedding top yields, this has to be on spot.

 

[509strain]

I picked up the extraction vessel today, i had to go with a schedule 80 as my source didn't have 160 until next month so this first version will be using schedule 80 for this first version. I will be starting machine work after i get back from vacation end of july.. Here is some pics of the extraction vessel rough.

https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=61996&pictureid=1462563

 

[509strain]

Sorry for the typos and dirty url code, i was on my phone.. and my swype has a mind of its own.

 

[River_Ramblin]

Started testing out the machine and ran 50lbs at room temperature, 75f, 1200psi on the meter, which never rests lower than ~300psi. The result after waiting for the condensation to vanish, was ~5ml of a milky liquid...water, and a hint of oil. As I predicted, the pressure needs to go higher.

Put a 20lb tank in a 120f water bath and started extracting at 1800psi. The instructions say to pull the tank out of the water once the pressure drops below 1500. This happens after a couple burps. I'm wondering if to maximize extraction, I need to consistently raise the pressure back up to 1800 or if a brief spike is all that is required? I raised the psi back up to 1800 a few times once it dropped to 1500, briefly pausing the extraction each time, then pulled the tank out of the water bath and allowed the extraction to continue until the pressure dropped below 1000. At this point I closed off the tank and allowed the remaining pressure to release in order to verify if extract was being collected.

The collection chamber was put into a warm water bath until the condensation was gone, wiped dry, and opened to reveal a small amount of golden orange oil and several drops of milky water. The aroma was intense, smelled just like the material that was put in. At first, there appeared to be a glob or two of wax, but that quickly melted into the water/oil mixture.

Now that I've verified it works, I'll do a longer run at 1800psi. I'll also wait a bit longer to open the collection chamber.

@Juggo, it costs around $90-100 for 100lb of CO2. I was able to fit 6oz shake/buds in the tube. Depending on the material, I might be able to stuff a bit more in there.

Claimed does the C02 tank you are using have a dip tube? If it does not, swap out for one that does.

 

[509strain]

A lot has change since I started this project. Changed to 316/L austenitic stainless steel to improve the corrosion resistance and the toughness when reaching cryogenic temps. Now to fire up my cad and made some prints to follow now that i have the ASME specifications correct. I found some hubs and clamps that meet the ASME specifications as well. I was going to fab up some pistons like jyindustriez but until i can put my own spin on the design I will leave that for down the road.. The 304L pipe above will made into a separator so no loss ther.. keep u posted.

 

[cALyXtech1]

Looking forward to your progress with this project!

 

[Gray Wolf]

Hee, hee, hee....................

 

[509strain]

In the meantime I wanted to share my prototypes, i will be machining two different pistons one of the pistons will be 30 thousands of a inch less then the primary design prototype to test different o rings.. making progress.

 

[Gray Wolf]

Should work well. That design served us well in Autoclave Engineering Hot Isostatic Press vessels operating 1700F and 14,000 psi, and it was I that passed it on to Johnyar.

Eden Labs has gone it one better with a tapered o-ringed plug, so that as it lifts it releases. It does require pressure to seal, where the straight design just has to be retained.