nukklehead
Active member
There is nothing wrong with digis .... Just have a backup mag... get it?? Failure is not an option.... ( Apollo 13)
Electric? Digital? are they the same?!
- Thread starter señorsloth
- Start date
i guess, all in all this stuff is just really kinda frustrating...honestly i don't want a galaxy or lumitek or any of the main brands, if they are basically generic then honestly id rather have the generic...if they are exactly the same on the inside then thats good enough for me...im not gonna waste extra money on a sticker...
what about these? it's impossible to get reviews on any of the smaller brands...pretty colors though and the add makes it seem like it does 400-300-200 and not 400-250
http://www.htgsupply.com/Product-Digital-GreenHouse-Dimmable- 400w-Ballast.asp#
they look nice, but cost as much as the name brands and seem to be generic though...
also i've been reading when you turn these things down, it just dims the electricity to the light, but the ballast consumes the same wattage...what do you guys think? it was a pretty reliable source and if that's true than i have no use for a dimmable ballast...
what about these? it's impossible to get reviews on any of the smaller brands...pretty colors though and the add makes it seem like it does 400-300-200 and not 400-250
http://www.htgsupply.com/Product-Digital-GreenHouse-Dimmable- 400w-Ballast.asp#
they look nice, but cost as much as the name brands and seem to be generic though...
also i've been reading when you turn these things down, it just dims the electricity to the light, but the ballast consumes the same wattage...what do you guys think? it was a pretty reliable source and if that's true than i have no use for a dimmable ballast...
I would have difficulty talking myself into buying a generic digital ballast. While I am sure that many of them come out of the same factory with different labels on them and are of adequate quality, I'm equally sure that there are some high-quality ones that aren't. Philips builds there own and some of Gavitas, Gavita builds the ones that aren't built by Philips for them, etc.
Regarding the unchanging current question, no this is not the case. It would be far cheaper for the manufacturer to actually lower the lamp current than it would be to dissipate the heat that would result from keeping the incoming current the same and lowering the output to the lamp - that power has to go somewhere, and dealing with heat is expensive in electronics.
Regarding the unchanging current question, no this is not the case. It would be far cheaper for the manufacturer to actually lower the lamp current than it would be to dissipate the heat that would result from keeping the incoming current the same and lowering the output to the lamp - that power has to go somewhere, and dealing with heat is expensive in electronics.
Have running those for at least 2.5 years now,without no break at all-newer got any prob with it and now it,s full of dust and have it on the floor-wrong place for a ballast-i know-but no prob at all..No heat at all-no weight-very easy to move around-a bit noise,from the inbuilding fan-but you can put another lownoise into-if..My magnetic louds more with bruum-then running.
It,s a bit "Funny"-then some wrotes,from the facorty-digi have en microprocesser built in-then im reading about those from future bright-there is an Electroninc ! It also have those microprocessor into . ) and you can hear it,on it-then you put and destroyed bulp into it-its starts up-for lock down again-thats the processor-there,s working-so digi and electroninc hm ...
BUT it have a lots more soft upstart than magnetic-and it,s lighting up lots more fast--some bulps the magnetic not would work with-they works in the electronic...It,s useing about 20 watt,s for running-against the magnetic-with 40 w...added to the 400 w of course-so they dont telling the real thruth-then they talks about half or more-you can save....bulp dont gives more lumens-but it will mabye run for more time-because those frequence is lots more than-magnetic-magnetic loosing power-after time-it,s because those coil maded of cubber-the processer read constantly how much power the bulp needed-it will not loose energy then times goes-but-then break down-magnetic lots easyer and cheaper for repairing.If i should buy today-difficult one..but says digi-electronic dont works for long and so-not true..and have newer cleaned it-insite-has to...but it can take much dust and soil and even some water i also have dropped onto it-sometimes a plant,is stands onto it-no heat at all-from it.And dont watering then stands on it : ) Peace and light mabye those from Future bright,could been in sight ? is good.
It,s a bit "Funny"-then some wrotes,from the facorty-digi have en microprocesser built in-then im reading about those from future bright-there is an Electroninc ! It also have those microprocessor into . ) and you can hear it,on it-then you put and destroyed bulp into it-its starts up-for lock down again-thats the processor-there,s working-so digi and electroninc hm ...
BUT it have a lots more soft upstart than magnetic-and it,s lighting up lots more fast--some bulps the magnetic not would work with-they works in the electronic...It,s useing about 20 watt,s for running-against the magnetic-with 40 w...added to the 400 w of course-so they dont telling the real thruth-then they talks about half or more-you can save....bulp dont gives more lumens-but it will mabye run for more time-because those frequence is lots more than-magnetic-magnetic loosing power-after time-it,s because those coil maded of cubber-the processer read constantly how much power the bulp needed-it will not loose energy then times goes-but-then break down-magnetic lots easyer and cheaper for repairing.If i should buy today-difficult one..but says digi-electronic dont works for long and so-not true..and have newer cleaned it-insite-has to...but it can take much dust and soil and even some water i also have dropped onto it-sometimes a plant,is stands onto it-no heat at all-from it.And dont watering then stands on it : ) Peace and light mabye those from Future bright,could been in sight ? is good.
ok so i have been working in my veg room all day long, in a space the size of a hobbits coffin, i'm completely inside half the time, laying down floor boards, attaching panda paper, and securing wires too walls...during that point i looked up and noticed a metal tag on the side of my ballast similar to yours, easygrowing...
it says:
ELECTRONIC BALLAST FOR MH AND HPS LAMPS
Model: MH&HPS1-44EB
Lamp: MH&HPS 400w
Input:120v, 50/60Hz
P=420w, I=3.52a, PF>0.99
THD<10%, CF<1.7, ta=30C, tc=70C
now i'm really confused! apparently this cheep generic ballast im using is not magnetic...i thought it was because it was so cheep but if it can power both mh and hps it must not be magnetic, right? i always wondered why mine was silent and people report such noise with them...
and yet, it doesn't say "digital" as many in this little thread are saying is the other of the two options...it says "electronic" just like Easygrowing's ballast does...does that mean it isn't digital? does that mean it isn't magnetic? honestly with a small underpowered computer fan attached it stays room temp, but without a fan it will get pretty hot, not scalding hot but i wouldn't be surprised it it was 120-150 F(how do you type a degree mark?btw)...so i hear people say digital ballasts don't put out heat, and thats how they save 30 watts on magnetics, because they don't waste any energy as heat...but on the other hand people tend to exaggerate...i wouldn't be surprised if digitals weren't at least warm to the touch...
well i must say i am so incredibly confused, i'm gonna try to find more info on this ballast but i really want to know what it is, because if it's switchable from mh to hps, only running 20w over it's 400 posted amount...well thats good enough for me, at half the price of a new digi i could buy 2 more and be set for years and years to come...after all this one has been in continuous use for about 2 years and still going strong...
ive always run hps through it, i had no idea it could handle mh, i might have to go buy an mh bulb to try flowering under that for a while...from the side by side forum it seems to help with yeild more than i thought it would...{edit}well i just did some googling and found the exact ballast i have, a generic no name, but interestingly they want more for the ballast than i paid for the ballast and the cooltube i started with and all the chords...lol funny how that works...
anyways here is the description on it...from what it says the claims seem similar to those of "digital ballasts" yet it calls it an electronic ballast...are they the same? or different?
also Wikipedia seems to think they are the same ballast; if you search "digital hid ballast" it pops up this page...
so whats the prognosis? do me and easygrower have generic digital ballasts? if so i am sold on generics...i see no reason to pay 150 for a ballast if i can get all the reliability and features in a generic one for half the price...
it says:
ELECTRONIC BALLAST FOR MH AND HPS LAMPS
Model: MH&HPS1-44EB
Lamp: MH&HPS 400w
Input:120v, 50/60Hz
P=420w, I=3.52a, PF>0.99
THD<10%, CF<1.7, ta=30C, tc=70C
now i'm really confused! apparently this cheep generic ballast im using is not magnetic...i thought it was because it was so cheep but if it can power both mh and hps it must not be magnetic, right? i always wondered why mine was silent and people report such noise with them...
and yet, it doesn't say "digital" as many in this little thread are saying is the other of the two options...it says "electronic" just like Easygrowing's ballast does...does that mean it isn't digital? does that mean it isn't magnetic? honestly with a small underpowered computer fan attached it stays room temp, but without a fan it will get pretty hot, not scalding hot but i wouldn't be surprised it it was 120-150 F(how do you type a degree mark?btw)...so i hear people say digital ballasts don't put out heat, and thats how they save 30 watts on magnetics, because they don't waste any energy as heat...but on the other hand people tend to exaggerate...i wouldn't be surprised if digitals weren't at least warm to the touch...
well i must say i am so incredibly confused, i'm gonna try to find more info on this ballast but i really want to know what it is, because if it's switchable from mh to hps, only running 20w over it's 400 posted amount...well thats good enough for me, at half the price of a new digi i could buy 2 more and be set for years and years to come...after all this one has been in continuous use for about 2 years and still going strong...
ive always run hps through it, i had no idea it could handle mh, i might have to go buy an mh bulb to try flowering under that for a while...from the side by side forum it seems to help with yeild more than i thought it would...{edit}well i just did some googling and found the exact ballast i have, a generic no name, but interestingly they want more for the ballast than i paid for the ballast and the cooltube i started with and all the chords...lol funny how that works...
anyways here is the description on it...from what it says the claims seem similar to those of "digital ballasts" yet it calls it an electronic ballast...are they the same? or different?
also Wikipedia seems to think they are the same ballast; if you search "digital hid ballast" it pops up this page...
so whats the prognosis? do me and easygrower have generic digital ballasts? if so i am sold on generics...i see no reason to pay 150 for a ballast if i can get all the reliability and features in a generic one for half the price...
The only difference that I am aware of between an "electronic" ballast and a "digital" is whether or not they incorporate a microprocessor. I think that some of the very simple electronic ballasts for fluorescent lamps may still be a straight "electronic" ballast, but they are probably going the way of the dodo also. If there are any features present besides power in>power out, it is almost invariably cheaper to do it digitally than with a bunch of analog parts. When you start ramping up the power, doing lamp end-of-life sensing, delayed re-starts on power loss, the ability to strike different types of lamps, variable wattage output, etc, etc, it is far cheaper to stick in a dedicated microprocessor than to build up a bunch of isolated circuits to take care of each different instance. You can get far more versatility with fewer components and higher overall reliability with the digital format.
i'm sorry but i still don't get it...so basically electric and digital are the same but digitals have a programmed chip that controls the features (meaning soft starts and sensing old bulbs and junk, variable wattages), and the electronic ballasts use electric components to achieve some limited features(like a basic soft start and the ability to change from hps to mh)? is that about right? the power coming from them is achieved through the same means, but the ability to replace almost all of the electronic components with a single chip that can do infinitely more gives you more space to work with and more room to program fancy high end features?
but say i didn't want any fancy features, i just wanted something that a plug goes in, and a plug goes out, it runs both main bulbs and has a soft start...basically bare bones right...in theory if you found a cheep digital that only have those two features...and a cheep electronic with those two features...the power that they produce and consume is the same between the two right? the only difference is one has a few features controlled by big physical electric components and the newer digital has a few features controlled by a small chip, that in theory has all those little components of the electronic, just shrunk down as a chip?
i guess what i am trying to ask is, as far as the light is concerned they are the same, the only differences is in how the special features are run? the basic meat of both of them are the same right? and the waves they create are those square shaped ones and not the wavy ones? ug i'm so confused and i'm certain they do that on purpose...
I'd be surprised if you could even find a real non-digital electronic HID ballast, but perhaps they are out there. You wouldn't even be able to tell without undressing them and doing a chip-by-chip identification. It is simply much easier to to these kind of things with a microprocessor. You can spend a little bit more for the processor and eliminate a whole damn bucket full of marginally cheaper components (which add up to a more expensive total). Engineering time, circuit design, assembly, parts sourcing, etc, etc are all simplified. That is why every damn electronic component you pick up today has a microprocessor in it.
I would be willing to bet that any "simple" electronic ballast for an HID is still going to be digital - they are just cheapening them up by foregoing bringing out the options that it is capable of, and eliminating a couple of switches.
I would be willing to bet that any "simple" electronic ballast for an HID is still going to be digital - they are just cheapening them up by foregoing bringing out the options that it is capable of, and eliminating a couple of switches.
Exactly correct.
Don't worry about the definition of electronic vs digital. They are effectively the same. What you should concentrate on is electronic/digital vs magnetic ballast. If buying an electronic/digital ballast, it's more important to pay attention to brand IMO. I run Lumateks exclusively. I really like the dimmer switch feature, and have used it extensively, but even without it these are great ballasts and worth every penny.
i went to the hydro shop today and looked around...galaxy ballasts say "electronic ballast" in big words printed right on the side and lumitek say it in BIG letters right on the front of the box...so clearly, as you guys have stated, electronic ballasts ARE digital ballasts...and if anything, "digital" is just a shiny word to sell electronic ballasts...to make them seem better than the other electronic ballasts without actually being different at all...i mean if you go to sunlight supplies website or look at their catalog they don't even use the word "digital"...they have magnetic ballasts and electronics, and all the ballasts people consider to be "digital" are in their "electronic" section...and are clearly marked as "electronic" on both the packaging and the units themselves...
for instance, you swear by lumitek, but ive read whole threads saying they aren't very reliable and it's galaxys people should rely on, or vice versa...it seems that for every major brand out there there is a thread out there complaining about how crappy they are, but with everybody in said thread recomending other brands...that other people hate but some swear by...
could it be that none are perfect, but MOST are basically the same, and since there are no statistics out there large enough to actually prove if one fails more than the others it basically comes down to personal opinion...i mean for one person to try dozens of ballasts of different brands in a couple years would be unlikely...but it would seem the only way to fairly judge one brand against another, by say using ten of each brand continually for several years and recording which brands had more problems over time...i mean i think most people that hate on one brand or another had an issue with just one unit...which could be dumb luck...or maybe it was dumb luck that their new favorite brand hadn't failed, and statistically they actually fail more than the one they had problems with before?
well now that i know digitals and electronics are the same i wonder if i can even find magnetic ballasts easily, since i haven't used one since i took a break for growing like 7 years ago...and apparently every no name ballast i look at is electric and not magnetic...also the one i have is completely generic and is 2 years old...i switched from a 430w to 400w bulb and it got a lot cooler, it's silent, and my plants like it...it will even let me use mh wich i didn't know i could do...it's definately something to think about in the future...but i wonder why should i buy a name brand like you recomend if, from what most people say, the people that make lumiteks and galaxy's buy their ballasts from the same factories that make the generics, they pick the features and heat sink they want, slap their own stickers on, but inside they are all the same? i'm not saying that they for sure are that way, but from everything ive read trying to get an answer to this suggests that this is true...
for instance, you swear by lumitek, but ive read whole threads saying they aren't very reliable and it's galaxys people should rely on, or vice versa...it seems that for every major brand out there there is a thread out there complaining about how crappy they are, but with everybody in said thread recomending other brands...that other people hate but some swear by...
could it be that none are perfect, but MOST are basically the same, and since there are no statistics out there large enough to actually prove if one fails more than the others it basically comes down to personal opinion...i mean for one person to try dozens of ballasts of different brands in a couple years would be unlikely...but it would seem the only way to fairly judge one brand against another, by say using ten of each brand continually for several years and recording which brands had more problems over time...i mean i think most people that hate on one brand or another had an issue with just one unit...which could be dumb luck...or maybe it was dumb luck that their new favorite brand hadn't failed, and statistically they actually fail more than the one they had problems with before?
vertigo0007
Member
I did a lil digging in my closet and found a no name labeled "electronic" and an htg labeled "digital". The only obvious difference (other than appearance) is the "electronic" has no fan and will only run hps and conversion mh bulbs. The "digital" does have a fan and will run hps, mh, and conversions of both.
vertigo0007
Member
They arent being used due to neighborhood internet/cable interference. The cable service was at both of my neighbors several times. I often wondered why. Then the knocking started. Found out later they wanted in my house for an "internal cable leak". Needless to say no more digis and no more cable.
Just can't get past all the threads on digital ballasts with issues. Where's the money saved when you can't whip it open and repair it for $20-30... right there on the spot.
Magnetic all the way. Quality ballasts (as people have repeatedly pointed out) are nearly silent, don't get all that hot and last nearly forever.
Stay Safe!
Magnetic all the way. Quality ballasts (as people have repeatedly pointed out) are nearly silent, don't get all that hot and last nearly forever.
Stay Safe!
junior_grower
Active member
yup been saying it for years. You can rebuild one in about 1hr, and they make almost no noise when properly cared for.Just can't get past all the threads on digital ballasts with issues. Where's the money saved when you can't whip it open and repair it for $20-30... right there on the spot.
Magnetic all the way. Quality ballasts (as people have repeatedly pointed out) are nearly silent, don't get all that hot and last nearly forever.
Stay Safe!
vertigo0007
Member
Good point. Anything other than checking wirenuts and screws annually, what else can be done to properly care for? Thanks
junior_grower
Active member
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=159066&highlight=ballast
a link to an old post about the guts of your mag ballasts and what to do.
yerboyblue
Member
I have to hop on here and swear by magnetic ballasts as well. Cheaper and more dependable.
My experience with digital has been so so. The first ones I bought were CAP, the more expensive ones that look like an amplifier for your car stereo. Well, as soon as I plugged them in, I noticed a flickering, almost a pulsing, with the light. I waited an hour and checked again, they were still doing it. I took those suckers back and got some lumateks, those purple ones. They didn't flicker. However, side by side with my magnetic ballasts in the room, the digital ones seemed to produce a slightly more orange, red spectrum with the same bulb than the magnetic ballasts. I ran the entire cycle through and the one plant under the digital actually had some bleaching from the light, and colas did not fill in quite as much as the ones under magnetic.
Some of the supposed benefits of digitals are they run quieter. They do, but not by enough to call it a benefit. They say they run cooler, they don't. I've had the digital ballast more hot than any of my magnetics. I can say that they are way lighter, and that can be convenient if you have a ballast placed high in a weird spot. They also say they put out a more red spectrum that is beneficial, but just wasn't in my case. Maybe I could have backed it off more and had more canopy, I don't know.
One major disadvantage was that the digital ballast just killed MH conversion bulbs, this happened 2 or 3 times before the grow store told me to get a certain brand geared towards digital ballasts. That one works fine.
My experience with digital has been so so. The first ones I bought were CAP, the more expensive ones that look like an amplifier for your car stereo. Well, as soon as I plugged them in, I noticed a flickering, almost a pulsing, with the light. I waited an hour and checked again, they were still doing it. I took those suckers back and got some lumateks, those purple ones. They didn't flicker. However, side by side with my magnetic ballasts in the room, the digital ones seemed to produce a slightly more orange, red spectrum with the same bulb than the magnetic ballasts. I ran the entire cycle through and the one plant under the digital actually had some bleaching from the light, and colas did not fill in quite as much as the ones under magnetic.
Some of the supposed benefits of digitals are they run quieter. They do, but not by enough to call it a benefit. They say they run cooler, they don't. I've had the digital ballast more hot than any of my magnetics. I can say that they are way lighter, and that can be convenient if you have a ballast placed high in a weird spot. They also say they put out a more red spectrum that is beneficial, but just wasn't in my case. Maybe I could have backed it off more and had more canopy, I don't know.
One major disadvantage was that the digital ballast just killed MH conversion bulbs, this happened 2 or 3 times before the grow store told me to get a certain brand geared towards digital ballasts. That one works fine.
I have run Lumateks for years...with proper wiring and proper use they will last forever. I have never once had one fail, and I have owned 8 of them and run them for years. More importantly, the company will stand behind them if they do fail. I trashed one due to my own stupidity (bad wiring) and the company replaced it with a new one at no cost. I'm not at all concerned about having to repair my ballast. By selecting a quality brand in the first place, that worry is eliminated. A good digital can be expected to last as long as or longer than a magnetic, with NO replacing capacitors, etc.
Magnetic ballasts hum, they're slow to start, they can't be dimmed, they use more power, and they screw up the power factor. The slightly increased initial cost for a quality digital over a magnetic is totally worth it, because it's a fixed cost that will recoup itself in no time, vs the magnetic which will cost more (higher power usage) throughout its life. When you do the math, it's a no-brainer: get a digital unless you are on a shoestring budget and absolutely can't afford it. For larger grows, digital all the way.
Magnetic ballasts hum, they're slow to start, they can't be dimmed, they use more power, and they screw up the power factor. The slightly increased initial cost for a quality digital over a magnetic is totally worth it, because it's a fixed cost that will recoup itself in no time, vs the magnetic which will cost more (higher power usage) throughout its life. When you do the math, it's a no-brainer: get a digital unless you are on a shoestring budget and absolutely can't afford it. For larger grows, digital all the way.
yerboyblue
Member
gingerale, how much less power did you use, or do you know? Just wondering if you like switched from mags to dig and noticed a significant decrease.
