Does having a greenhouse = probable cause for search warrant?

[DrFever]

an anonymous complaint is like plastic silverware.The Plaintiff MUST appear. And when he/she does, do they have first hand knowledge in the matter?If not motion to strike the attorney and any third party interveners after him!

Wrong they can use the the complainant if they need to that is the Crown decision But it would never get to there . At
any criminal trial, the Crown prosecutor must prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the accused person committed a criminal offence. The judge or the members of the jury cannot find the person guilty if they have a reasonable doubt about the accused person's guilt. Reasonable doubt exists if, after considering all the evidence, they are not completely sure whether the accused person committed the offence. To convict, the judge or jury must believe that the only sensible explanation, considering all the evidence, is that the accused person committed the crime.
Was there plants in the green house Yes your honor , was it at said persons place of doweling Yes your honor , Does this person have any priors YES your Honor Is this the said persons actual property probably not your Honor
is this person FUCKED

Yes your Honor

 

[Hydrosun]

exactly, but in court for a conviction they will need to release the information behind the complaint. so it basically gives them probably cause to go fuck with somebody's grow and take their money, put them through the system. but in the long run hopefully no conviction happens.

it says on the anonymous complaint website itself that they cannot garuntee they will remain anonymous if the case goes to criminal court.

I was drug raided.... You may have even seen the hole in the front door crudely patched up as a reminder to me and everyone that the grow location is now pre approved by LEO...

I have my paperwork in order now, and only one item was placed in the police early retirement fund (besides most of the cannabis of course).

Anywho an illegal search doesn't stop tards from chopping your shit or fucking with your life.

OFF the radar is more important than dollars in any atty trust account....

 

[CanniDo Cowboy]

there is a lawyer meeting tonight and i will hopefully have updated info. i am also still waiting to hear back on personal legal counsel.

i have very big suspicions their search warrant was illegal. they are absolutely breaking the law and hoping that most defendants are too dumb or broke to get proper legal counsel. they will not find that with me, i have one of the best lawyers in the state on retainer and I'm considering adding more to the war chest.

i havent even built my greenhouses yet lol…but they are not typical ghetto grow GHs, they are cold frames with 2 ft sidewalls that look exactly like the GHs used in many farms I've seen around california for growing regular crops.

First, if you have "one of the best lawyers in the state on retainer" I'm fairly confident he should be advising you that posting possible incriminating evidence on a weed site, including mentioning future plans and photos to boot isnt going to help win a case. LOL Just saying... If I were to get in deep legal dukey over a grow, I would surely not want investigators finding anything I may have posted on a grow site as additional evidence that could also be used against me...

Heres the reality, if and when the grow-shit hits the fan: good, great or super lawyers not withstanding, its a legal fight the grower is not going to win - even if you win. In this case, define win. The first thing that comes to mind is- Even if the warrant is proven to be baseless due to non-confirmation of greenhouse content beforehand, the county is surely going to take their run at you from a code violation standpoint and they will leave no violation stone unturned, up to and including any non-related violations they can scrounge up.

If the county doesnt find an illegally constructed structure violation, they will proceed to the building itself for code violations including property setback allowances, grading, plumbing, electrical, flood control, environmental impact etc. If that turns up nothing, they will proceed to the zoning aspect itself- Are you operating a commercial activity on a property zoned for residential? ANY code violation found will bolster the prosecutor's case, even if its minor.

We can speculate as to the legality of what brings the grower to stand before the judge in the first place til the cows come home but believe this- the county prosecutor, the county itself and Leo will work together to present a neatly wrapped package that, if nothing else, forces you to spend more time in a courtroom than in your greenhouse...all on your dime. Even if the greenhouse contents, if indeed MJ, never gets discovered, proven or even admitted to, the profits are now a casualty of war...And...you are now on the shit-screen radar. And your super lawyer? He makes out just fine, win lose or draw...cc

 

[Hydrosun]

I am a drug warrior. I have been raided and I'm still in the GAME. NSA, DEA, IRS, FBI, ETC. all have data bases on me.

This information WAS shared with CA district attorney. I don't live in CA and have never had more than a speeding ticket there. But prior to arrainment the DA and I spoke a little, maybe deal etc.

I was asked about the resolution of a case in another state. I didn't disclose the DRUG RAID and DA didn't ask about it..... Asked about the OUTCOME of the raid case... The case is closed and settled, I am not now a felon nor have I ever been.

My question is what is in the info provided to the DA of this new county. Discovery and rediscovery, and motion for formal audit of DA's office for complete discovery, then motion to hold trial pending audit, then evidence view, then trial.

I want to see my triple secret per·ma·nent record provided to DA of new state new county.

What say you NSA?????? Fun times Yehawwww!!!!!!

 

[Yes4Prop215]

First, if you have "one of the best lawyers in the state on retainer" I'm fairly confident he should be advising you that posting possible incriminating evidence on a weed site, including mentioning future plans and photos to boot isnt going to help win a case. LOL Just saying... If I were to get in deep legal dukey over a grow, I would surely not want investigators finding anything I may have posted on a grow site as additional evidence that could also be used against me...

Heres the reality, if and when the grow-shit hits the fan: good, great or super lawyers not withstanding, its a legal fight the grower is not going to win - even if you win. In this case, define win. The first thing that comes to mind is- Even if the warrant is proven to be baseless due to non-confirmation of greenhouse content beforehand, the county is surely going to take their run at you from a code violation standpoint and they will leave no violation stone unturned, up to and including any non-related violations they can scrounge up.

If the county doesnt find an illegally constructed structure violation, they will proceed to the building itself for code violations including property setback allowances, grading, plumbing, electrical, flood control, environmental impact etc. If that turns up nothing, they will proceed to the zoning aspect itself- Are you operating a commercial activity on a property zoned for residential? ANY code violation found will bolster the prosecutor's case, even if its minor.

We can speculate as to the legality of what brings the grower to stand before the judge in the first place til the cows come home but believe this- the county prosecutor, the county itself and Leo will work together to present a neatly wrapped package that, if nothing else, forces you to spend more time in a courtroom than in your greenhouse...all on your dime. Even if the greenhouse contents, if indeed MJ, never gets discovered, proven or even admitted to, the profits are now a casualty of war...And...you are now on the shit-screen radar. And your super lawyer? He makes out just fine, win lose or draw...cc

yea well maybe i dont tell him everything lol….and i dont have any computers or anything linking to the grow sight that would connect to IC. it would have to be some major investigation where they would hack my computers and if its that major than I'm already fucked…

we did as much of the grading to code as possible, minus the permit haha. i know that sounds funny, but even if they came out i can show them the drain tile, show them the erosion control, show them the berms we made to make sure no run off comes close to any creek. down to laser leveling the pads, etc….only thing they would be mad about (besides the greenhouses which i would probably just tear down) would be the conduit we have strung up through the trees to power the GHs…

and for me, winning is having no criminal charges. i can deal with code violations, its gonna hit the pocketbook and eat into profits yes…but my main concern is no felony cultivation charges. and at this point, in this industrY…if you aren't ready or willing to face cultivation charges than why are you growing in the first place! go get a job at starbucks and buy your weed like all the sheeple do!

but yes, my anxiety levels this year are definately higher. i probably should have just kept my terraces and stayed open sun…but then they would have stronger probable cause to raid me based on visually seeing plants. it comes down to "raid over sun grown plants vs code violations over greenhouse"

its all a fucking shit show to be honest….what the fuck am i supposed to do short of leaving this county and everything invested and go somewhere else where they might ban it as well. pretty much fucked, and theres no way I'm getting a job in another industry. so I'm forced to stay put and fight it out until hopefully the laws change...

 

[WeetisPotPie]

Very nicely said Cowboy. You are right when you say what is a win. By busting you they already won, it exposes you, and that is usually the last thing a grower wants. Plus the cost involved, there is no winning for the grower. Good luck setting up a grow in state afterwards. Again it's really about fear and exploiting that fear. The US has become very good at doing this, in all aspects of our lives.

 

[stoned40yrs]

If it wasn't for the risks of cashcropping none of you would be making any money. Legal and no risk then big companies would put you out of business the old fashioned way- cheaper product. You can't have it both ways. For now you have to face up to the risks or quit growing.

 

[stoned-trout]

no big corporation will pump out aaa buds, so no worries here...they will fuck it up and have marginal weed...mom and pop organic aaa will always sell....yeehaw..by the time they tax it I will also be able to undersell them if need be..no tax from me..i can sell aaa already in cali less then any dispensary I have been to does...

 

[BigBozat]

thanks for the contributions y'all.


for this specific case, the defendant was priorly charged with cultivation and distribution of marijuana but had his case dismissed. so maybe being charged only 2 years previously + having a greenhouse was enough for a search warrant? there is also rumors that a complaint was made from a neighbor about growing marijuana, but that has not been verified yet due to the county trying to keep the complainant anonymous.

they set up an anonymous complaint system here, but the disclaimer on the sheriffs website does say that if charges are pressed in court, that anonymity goes out the window. so i believe they do that to make their search warrant more valid because "some random guy who is not identified said theres weed there" is not enough for legit probable cause, they need an actual CI or victim to testify to that for it to stand up in court.

Yeah, I would've have thought that observation of a greenhouse - in and of itself - isn't sufficient to justify a warrant... but it can certainly supply sufficient confirmation of other facts (of which a prior/pending case on a charge for similar behavior would be such) that might...

 

[CanniDo Cowboy]

If it wasn't for the risks of cashcropping none of you would be making any money. Legal and no risk then big companies would put you out of business the old fashioned way- cheaper product. You can't have it both ways. For now you have to face up to the risks or quit growing.

Which raises the next question - If we're being reverted to the higher risk environment that once existed before Prop215 came along and inadvertently drove prices down, with all the county bans now going down, when are prices going to go up to reflect the new risks...? And if you think about it in terms of business, the cashcropper shouldnt have to bear the brunt alone of 'retool" costs in the form of greenhouse investment and all relative costs that follow, just to turn around and have to sell to a market that still expects pre-ban prices....cc

 

[Jhhnn]

Which raises the next question - If we're being reverted to the higher risk environment that once existed before Prop215 came along and inadvertently drove prices down, with all the county bans now going down, when are prices going to go up to reflect the new risks...? And if you think about it in terms of business, the cashcropper shouldnt have to bear the brunt alone of 'retool" costs in the form of greenhouse investment and all relative costs that follow, just to turn around and have to sell to a market that still expects pre-ban prices....cc

Your participation in the market is entirely voluntary.

I don't pretend to understand how 215 works very well at all, but it seems to me that it mostly created an enormous grey area with concomitant risks & rewards. Due to it not really laying out clear rules at the state level it leaves counties & towns with the ability to change the rules at will. The only reason that small scale marijuana farming has ever been profitable is that it's always been kinda illegal, one way or the other. Otherwise, it'd be no more profitable than tomatoes.

Modern police helicopters have digitally stabilized advanced optics & motion capture recording. What it means is that they can damned near tell what brand you smoke from the butts on the ground & that they can review the video over & over again. If they find the characteristic pattern of cannabis leaves pressed against the plastic, they hit stop, then print, & go see the Judge. Hell, if it's a light dep setup, that's a dead giveaway from their POV. Whatever they can get a friendly judge to go along with, they'll do, even if they know up front that it won't stand up in court. They're out to break your balls any way they can. If they weren't, there'd be no money in it. Can't have it both ways.

 

[Preacher]

OP: delete this thread and put a shotgun to your hard drive. If the federales are on your ass, they have carte blance to monitor your internet usage and quite a bit else. I for one stay committed to the legalization cause by technically doing nothing illegal in any jurisdiction, but you may not have the same fortune.

Edit at below: I've read court testimony from several years back stating that UMiss (the one organization that legally grows weed for the feds) has produced 28-percent THC by volume potent weed. For this reason, I agree that Phillip-Morris and co. would waste zero time replicating those kinds of results if they could.

 

[DrFever]

no big corporation will pump out aaa buds, so no worries here...they will fuck it up and have marginal weed...mom and pop organic aaa will always sell....yeehaw..by the time they tax it I will also be able to undersell them if need be..no tax from me..i can sell aaa already in cali less then any dispensary I have been to does...

You think ??? i disagree i mean big business has the money to purchase high end gear i am not talking about lights blah blah blah i am talking complete dialed in rooms air filtration systems that are worth 100.000 of dollars and being a business most importantly profesional trained personal that are not stoned 3/4 of the day or limbing around cause of some symptom they have nd MJ is helping ..
they have resources to test there products LAB conditions so to think they can not produce the same if not better your kidding your self certified bio genetic personal list can go on n on beyond what any one could grasp
90 percent of the pot heads either harvest to early or to late with these trained personal they can study terp THC content in lab conditions detailing perfect time to chop etc millions of dollars on lab equipment etc
they probably be able to study micro biological life with there gear not some walmart microscope the average pot head uses talking about 8- 20,000 scopes right
just saying
Breeding rooms with thousands of different varieties and pheno's this can mean only better seeds in the future

 

[redlaser]

there was recently a case in my county, where a man was raided for marijuana cultivation. in the search warrant, it said that the probable cause was that a helicopter flew over and saw greenhouses from the sky. that was enough to get the warrant apparently, but from what I've heard from some lawyers, having a greenhouse or greenhouses alone is not enough evidence for a legit search warrant.


is there anybody who can shed light on this? I'm very curious as to if the local pigs can get a search warrant on my property just because i have a couple of hoop houses in the backyard.

from the legal consultation I've already had, the only real solid ways to get search warrants for medical marijuana grows in northern california is through 1) snitches or complainants, aka victims of crime 2) traffic stops where solid evidence of drug sales is found and linked back to a residence 3) actual visual of marijuana plants from the air, not covered by a greenhouse


i am scheduling some meetings this week with lawyers to get their insight, but hoping to hear from people on here. anybody get raided and have their search warrant mention visual of greenhouses??

Probable cause for a search warrant is usually set forth in a sworn affidavit by a law enforcement officer to a judge. The affidavit must provide a substantial basis from which a magistrate can reasonably conclude there is a fair probability that the place to be searched contains contraband or evidence of a crime. (Illinois v. Gates (1983) 462 U.S. 213, 238.) In order to pass constitutional muster, a search warrant affidavit must contain facts that establish a sufficient nexus between criminal activity and the place to be searched. (People v. Hernandez (1994) 30 Cal.App.4th 919; U.S. v. Lebron 729 F.2d 533; U.S. v. Savoca 739 F.2d 220; U.S. v. Freeman 685 F 2d 942; U.S. v. Lucarz 430 F2d 1051; U.S. v. Hendricks 743 F2d 653; U.S. v. Hove (9th Cir. 1988) 848 F.2d 137.)

I'd have to assume leo checks permits when they want to look in a greenhouse. No permits gives them a reason to contact someone along with the code enforcement people I'd bet. Still, if no plants are visible cops legally should not have access .

 

[Chunkypigs]

if you are in it for the long haul in CA I think disguising a large light dep Op as a horse operation would be pretty easy.
put a few horses outside with the right trailers, hay, paddocks and outbuildings would never attract attention from the air or the road.

won't look funny lit up at night either. water tanks look normal.

when there is so much low hanging fruit to grab it should be simple to make light dep look like it's something else that is legit and unremarkable from the air.

 

[Yes4Prop215]

nice pictures chunky thats a cool idea! forever flowering does offer GH that come disguised as typical metal buildings.

on another note, i DO NOT want to turn this thread into a discussion on big corporate legal companies competing with local smaller growers. that is a whole other discussion. this thread is strictly about SEARCH WARRANTS AND PROBABLE CAUSE.


either way i have decided to pull the plug on the greenhouse project, this county is just being too restrictive to really have a reasonable hope of pulling 5,000 sq ft of greenhouse without getting hassled. we have found a new better location and I'm thinking about splitting the GHs up across different properties instead of having all 3 at one location.

 

[terminalc]

Legal permitted ops will inevitably pull the prices of top shelf indoor to around 830. A greenhouse is not indicia. But i've also seen search warrants that included sch40 pvc pipe as indicia....

Its up to the bunch that control your particular county, whoever that is.

You can rest assured they have lots of friends and are rich already.

 

[stoned-trout]

splitting up the greenhouses is a great idea....that's the way I would do it..yeehaw... and surround em with regular plants/crops...

 

[yortbogey]

ever considered the ... Walipini approach ?
underground green houses...

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q...s&qpvt=walipini+greenhouse+pictures&FORM=IGRE