Do bubbles give o2 to the roots or just kill pathogens?

[lysol]

Oxygen would not be measured in tsp or tbs unless you are dealing with 100% concentrated liquid oxygen. which brings up another point, we use co2 tanks to raise that gas, why not liquid oxygen or something that does the same thing as h2o2? Or is this simply a silly hair brained idea?

"Liquid oxygen has an expansion ratio of 860:1 at 20 °C; and because of this, it is used in some commercial and military aircraft as a source of breathing oxygen."

I'm envisioning a device that expands it like a diver's oxygen tanks [except by boiling it and then chilling it?], and pumps pure oxygen thru the rez, would this make sense? Kind of expensive to experiment with but what if we were on to something here. It would be neat if we found out there is a way to boost your hydro

Does anyone know of any related studies, or at least some that show that there is in fact a ( linear??? ) correlation between the oxygen concentration and growth rate? Obiously it increases growth but is there a diminsihing reuturns is it like co2, a steroid to the plant

 

[lysol]

Well, you can assert that my statement is not true, but then you bear the responsibility of proving it.
It IS true.

It is true, although your first statement is a little off, burden of proof is on the asserter, although your statement has already been proved [grammar?] a lot so you taking the time to re-explain it on the forum would be futile, just saying, if I assert there is no magic flying spaghetti monster it a beleiver's place to prove that there is, otherwise it becomes subjective....

but yeah if he is trying to disprove a well established scientific fact that has been proven outside of the horticulture field, well then yeah he would need some proof to sway the scientific community

 

[lysol]

in your environment the plants begin to suffer <76. only thing can say is get below 76. may be your specific cultivar, may be that just too hot. may look into thermo-electric coolers. may no exp. w/ chillers.

each environ is different. each plant is different. ideally, want to breed/keep cultivars that thrive in specific environment. elimante those that dont, or alter environ to suit plants.

btw, what medium?

have had temps of 100+, w/ containers sitting in non-aerated water. no issues. only demand on the garden is lots of air flow to carry away the water vapor plants push into atmoshere when transpiring heavily.

Did you mean >76 is when they suffer? When I am awake I keep the temps at <68 but if I take a nap or sleep in they could easily hit 76 - 77 by the time I wake up. Hopefully a few hours here and there won't hurt as long as I keep some of the roots in the air with water only splashing on them, since I think we have established roots CAN breathe when they touch nothing but the air. Otherwise how do the orchids on my porch survive

 

[Payaso]

Interesting stuff, using peroxide is an interesting point, but an airstone works better in the long run.

My aeroponics units aerate themselves quite nicely!

And thanks to *mistress* for her knowledgeable input.!

 

[hoosierdaddy]

Interesting stuff, using peroxide is an interesting point, but an airstone works better in the long run.

How so?
The airstone is a breeding ground for pathogens.

 

[Guest 18340]

I may as well ask this here, does an airstone cause ph fluctuation in a rez? Not the airstone itself (or is it?) but what its doing.

 

[lysol]

Yep the air can raise the PH according to freezerboy. The more I think about it too I realize everyone is correct, anywhere air touches water DO can dissolve, probably more so from surface turbulence but Im sure physics is surface agnostic, the turbulent surface just provides way more surface area then any suspended bubbles could. I can see how those diffusers would give a boost.

 

[Hydrosun]

I just bought a new pump and an airstone for for every 5gal bucket in veg. Also switched the really old bulb in the veg room to a cool 600w blue hps.

I'll let you guys know how the ladies like the changes

 

[Carboy]

Well, you can assert that my statement is not true, but then you bear the responsibility of proving it.
I really need to write that down. That has to be one of the dumbest statements I have ever read.
It IS true. And all one needs to do is research the subject and find that the introduction of h2o2 can increase the level of DO by maybe 10 times that of an airstone.
CITE A SOURCE. How much simpler can it be?
Btw..I have used h2o2 for years, and have several grows with and without. I know it is great stuff and has several benefits as both a preventative and corrective measure.
Well, hot damn buddy, why didn't you say so earlier?? You've used it and been successful ---- good enough for me!!
When you make statements using only you logic it shows. I'll be illogical next time. It'll be easier for you to follow For one thing...h2o2 doesn't dissolve. All it does is react and becomes hydrogen and oxygen gasses, and liquid water. 2 H202 ----> 2 H20 + 02
Kinda cool how there is the same number pieces on both sides of the arrow, but different stuff-- isn't it?
And a correct dosage takes about 3-5 days (subjective to other variables) to dissipate from a clean res., and probably less in a soil medium, due to more reacting.
I'm sure you studied and researched this as thoroughly as everything else you've said. I'm satisfied and will be glad to pass it on as the Gospel.

What's the matter with me? I can't stop shaking my head.

CB

 

[lysol]

I did that too, until my IR thermometer told me each pump runs at 100+ F, so I cut to 2 pumps for 4 buckets and located them outside the room, rez temps dropped 10 F. Keep in mind bubbles dont do anything to hot water

 

[lysol]

Thread over. K+

 

[guineapig]

I love these kinds of questions......

Awhile ago i found an obscure pond ecology journal that explained it like this.....when you introduce Oxygen into a body of water, it basically "kicks out" all the Carbon Dioxide molecules and this causes the pH to sharply rise.....i have confirmed this using real-world experiments.....the Carbon Dioxide is dissolved in the water as carbonic acid, and that naturally lowers the pH of the water....this is why mineral water (carbonated fizzy drinks) has a lower-than-7 pH (usually around 5.9)......

If you are using air-stones, you will notice that introducing oxygen into your water will cause the pH to rise.....this is important for people making compost teas as well because some people like to bubble the teas for 48 hours or so.......

The proof for Oxygen "kicking out" the Carbon Dioxide molecules in a given body of water was very complex so i have not re-printed it....

kind regards from guineapig

 

[NOYB]

What's the matter with me?

The only thing the matter with you is you trying to have a logical discussion with Hoosierdaddy about H2O2, DO and related topics. The dude talks all kind of stuff pertaining to this area and have never seen him back anything up.

 

[dongle69]

Since the topic of h2o2 came up, I thought I should re-post this to chew on...
This is from William Texier of General Hydroponics Europe:

What happens to h2o2's oxygen ion when it is released?

Since it is very reactive, it will not live long, or travel that far. But it will, most likely, encounter very soon something to attach to.
It will then precipitate out of solution with that "something." Once again, this can be a cell, beneficial as well as harmful bacteria, and also a metallic ion such as iron.
If some of those ions, obviously a small portion, manage to turn into gaseous oxygen they will simply leave the solution, at least for the larger part.
The reason is simple: there is a maximum level of dissolved oxygen that you can have in water. This maximum varies mostly in relation to temperature.
Once that saturation in oxygen is attained, any extra would simply "bubble through" and dissipate into the air.
Granted, a minute fraction might be absorbed by the plant, but certainly not enough to make any difference.

 

[NOYB]

this can be a cell, beneficial as well as harmful bacteria

Absolutely yes. H2O2 does not discriminate here regarding direct contact. If you wanna mess with controlling DO levels get some simple testing equipment and also look into ORP...Oxidation Reduction Potential.

 

[hoosierdaddy]

Hey NOYB, glad to see you and your ass. Has it gained any knowledge, or is it still dumb?

dongle69, since we are quoteing hydro shop guys, let me drop one in the ring...
http://www.betterthannature.com/catalog/article_info.php/articles_id/7

Or perhaps a study just recently published by the USDA....
http://www.ars.usda.gov/research/publications/Publications.htm?seq_no_115=207538

Noyb, you remind me of other troublemakers I have seen...one of them had 15 seconds of fame as well...
"Kick his ass, Seabass!"
(do get a grip, Jr.)

 

[Carboy]

Hey NOYB, glad to see you and your ass. Has it gained any knowledge, or is it still dumb?

dongle69, since we are quoteing hydro shop guys, let me drop one in the ring...
http://www.betterthannature.com/catalog/article_info.php/articles_id/7
Ironic that the related product at the bottom of the page is an Air Pump !!
Or perhaps a study just recently published by the USDA....
http://www.ars.usda.gov/research/publications/Publications.htm?seq_no_115=207538
Good start. Now you need to read what you cite. Quote:
although the results were not as great as the non-scientific reports would suggest. The difference between our results and what many people generally report may be the benefit of hydrogen peroxide decreasing or eliminating diseases in the soil containers rather than it directly helping the plant grow better.

Noyb, you remind me of other troublemakers I have seen...one of them had 15 seconds of fame as well...
Personally, I like to thank NOYB guineapig and dongle69 for adding to the discussion.
I was beginning to feel like I was Alice and it was me that fell thru the rabbit hole.
"Kick his ass, Seabass!"
(do get a grip, Jr.)

To be clear, I've never slammed H202. I use it, but use it as a preventive -- not as an 02 supplier. If i get some extra DO out of the deal, cool. There is no one miracle bullet.
As a side note to the PH/O2/C02 discussion, I know that some fish raisers actually bubble CO2 to regulate the PH of their water. Don't know that much about it, but i believe it forms carbonic acid and therefore lowers the water PH. It makes sense O2 would raise PH --- I'll pay more attention.

Thanks guys ----------- CB

 

[hoosierdaddy]

I've never claimed "miracle bullet" for any product.
You may well not use h2o2 to increase the DO content of your water, but if you are using it at all, then I think you will find you are using as an O2 supplier, because that is about all it does that effects the grow at all. Don't you agree?

The thing soured me when you stated flat out that I was wrong. When I know that what I stated about h2o2 increasing DO levels past what a stone can to be correct.
Try increasing the DO of a gallon of water to saturation level with your stone. Let me know when (if) you get it there....

 

[Carboy]

I've never claimed "miracle bullet" for any product.
You may well not use h2o2 to increase the DO content of your water, but if you are using it at all, then I think you will find you are using as an O2 supplier, because that is about all it does that effects the grow at all. For the last time, H202 is an OXIDIZER Don't you agree? NO

The thing soured me when you stated flat out that I was wrong. and you are wrong When I know that what I stated about h2o2 increasing DO levels past what a stone can to be correct. and you are still wrong
Try increasing the DO of a gallon of water to saturation level with your stone. Let me know when (if) you get it there....I've got 50l/min air pump driving a commercial diffuser from the bottom of a narrow 5ft water column that is 63 degrees. I going to say it's pretty fucking close to saturation.

I'm going to have to bow out of this discussion.
I have a high tolerance for stupid, but not this high.

CB

 

[dongle69]

h2o2 needs to be added to water frequently if it is being used to increase dissolved oxygen levels.
For hydroponic applications, use every reservoir change and replace twenty-five percent (one quarter) every day.
The effect is short lived.
It would seem safer and more cost effective to find another way to add dissolved oxygen.