Yo St3ve here defoilation
awesome work you do dr.!!!
Defoliation: Hi-Yield Technique?
- Thread starter k33ftr33z
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awesome work you do dr.!!!
T
TribalSeeds
I removed about a bucket full of leaf almost every single week from my grow room and there is still so much fucking leaf in there I cant fucking stand it! Im sure those leaves are doing their job.
I know removing the leaf slows growth. I havent one time seen anybody in this thread claim that it didnt. If youre in a hurry to get a bunch of fluffy light green stuff to throw into your bubble pile then by all means keep growing precious leaf. I actually think the larger leaf focuses energy on its own growth.
I think what the Dr started to get at in his first point I can agree with. Some of the people jumping in here with a crop that hasnt been prepped since veg arent exactly going to get much benefit on buds so far away their light couldnt penetrate into anyway. You need to manage the canopy if youre going to try this out. If youre just starting this in flower I would hope youre not trying to get light to the buds that are 3ft down because its not going to do much. I think removing them and working on getting your cannopy under control is more important.
I know removing the leaf slows growth. I havent one time seen anybody in this thread claim that it didnt. If youre in a hurry to get a bunch of fluffy light green stuff to throw into your bubble pile then by all means keep growing precious leaf. I actually think the larger leaf focuses energy on its own growth.
I think what the Dr started to get at in his first point I can agree with. Some of the people jumping in here with a crop that hasnt been prepped since veg arent exactly going to get much benefit on buds so far away their light couldnt penetrate into anyway. You need to manage the canopy if youre going to try this out. If youre just starting this in flower I would hope youre not trying to get light to the buds that are 3ft down because its not going to do much. I think removing them and working on getting your cannopy under control is more important.
I tried that link but it doesn't seem to work for me. However if its just a paper on photosynthesis then I'm not sure what I'm to learn. As I said, I have real world results and nothing I would read would change that.
Defoliating is NOT the same as lollipopping.. that is, in the sense of this thread..
So you say you tried it. Do you have a separate veg area? It absolutely does slow the growth in veg. But for some, including myself, veg time is irrelevant.
The much tighter branching and node spacing, and extra budsites it produces come flower compared to just letting them grow is night and day. Its not as much about simply getting more light penetration.. its about changing the structure of the plant.
If I may be so bold as you make a guess, I'd say you tried it once or twice but didn't compensate for the added veg time. If this happens to be the case, then I can see why you would say this technique doesn't work.
Thanks for the civil discussion
edit: I just checked out your grow log. With 5 plants under 2k, and in SOIL no less.. I can see why you wouldn't have much success with this technique. It has also been mentioned in this thread that this technique should be carefully reconsidered with slower vegging system.. which soil is THE slowest vegging method. You may very well of had to veg for 3 months instead of 2.. which may not have been practical depending on your flowering times.
Yo St3ve here defoilation
That is an excellent example of LST, but definitely NOT defoliation. Nice work.
Yes Steve i have seperate rooms, i have grown all styles having lets just say 1400 plants in all different stages of growth in the past.
You mentioned you checked out my last grow, not bad ya think ??? 76 oz 5 plants ?????? with out C02 stick around wanna see 140 0z 10 plant with c02 and that is without taking any important leafs away
Here is a better concept if your trying to get more light to lower bud sites place vertical bulbs, run 1000's they penetrate like no other, stretch plant out (sideways )
tie them. this will allow lower bud sites to get light, anyways removing leafs is only
going to effect osmosis yes osmosis leafs transpire , and resperate like putting your self in a big plastic bag and making you run 5 miles in the heat that is more or less what your doing to a plant, where do you think plant takes up c02 ??? and a plant releases 02, why do you think animals have thick hair is it for winter months ??? it also cools them down in the summer months
St3ve you mentioned slower vegging systems ????? you actually think soil is slowest vegging system ???? i take it your a hydro guy ??? plants grow differently in different environments, when a person has a room so dialed in a fart can be detected with rooms being dialed in , and lots of light this creates a perfect grow
St3ve i take it you litterally flip plants at a premature age ???
if you think soil is the slowest growing method i would re think that thought here is a pic i think its 35 days vegged and day 9 flowering from flip pretty slow growth you think for soil
PS: the scrog table was set @ 5 foot height
You mentioned you checked out my last grow, not bad ya think ??? 76 oz 5 plants ?????? with out C02 stick around wanna see 140 0z 10 plant with c02 and that is without taking any important leafs away
Here is a better concept if your trying to get more light to lower bud sites place vertical bulbs, run 1000's they penetrate like no other, stretch plant out (sideways )
tie them. this will allow lower bud sites to get light, anyways removing leafs is only
going to effect osmosis yes osmosis leafs transpire , and resperate like putting your self in a big plastic bag and making you run 5 miles in the heat that is more or less what your doing to a plant, where do you think plant takes up c02 ??? and a plant releases 02, why do you think animals have thick hair is it for winter months ??? it also cools them down in the summer months
St3ve you mentioned slower vegging systems ????? you actually think soil is slowest vegging system ???? i take it your a hydro guy ??? plants grow differently in different environments, when a person has a room so dialed in a fart can be detected with rooms being dialed in , and lots of light this creates a perfect grow
St3ve i take it you litterally flip plants at a premature age ???
if you think soil is the slowest growing method i would re think that thought here is a pic i think its 35 days vegged and day 9 flowering from flip pretty slow growth you think for soil
PS: the scrog table was set @ 5 foot height
Hey Doc what strain you growing there?
Also, I am running three diff for comparison
1. DIY waterfarm/ebb&grow hybrid. Its 5 gallon buckets of hydroton top fed with CAP controller pumpin out of bottom with have 2 floods per day. The flood cycle will only go 1/2up bucket as the controller is for the 2 gal system. If hydro is better, this should do it. Thankfully didnt do RDWC as power went out last nite.
2. Sunshine mix #4 (100%) In 2gal now, will transplant to 5 gal (or should I go bigger?)
3. GH coco coir (100%) In 2gal now, will transplant to 5 gal (or should I go bigger?)
We'll see in couple weeks. To stay with theb thread, I will not be defoliating only clearing the under brush on this run. Eveything below the scrog line as I would usually do. I did notice the buds were denser where I left the leaf but that was also the spot that had the PM. Thinking it was on the older leaves and the denisty was great place to hide from the KHCO3.
I'd probably just go with the Sunshine #4 but what to do with all that dirt after the grow????
Also, I am running three diff for comparison
1. DIY waterfarm/ebb&grow hybrid. Its 5 gallon buckets of hydroton top fed with CAP controller pumpin out of bottom with have 2 floods per day. The flood cycle will only go 1/2up bucket as the controller is for the 2 gal system. If hydro is better, this should do it. Thankfully didnt do RDWC as power went out last nite.
2. Sunshine mix #4 (100%) In 2gal now, will transplant to 5 gal (or should I go bigger?)
3. GH coco coir (100%) In 2gal now, will transplant to 5 gal (or should I go bigger?)
We'll see in couple weeks. To stay with theb thread, I will not be defoliating only clearing the under brush on this run. Eveything below the scrog line as I would usually do. I did notice the buds were denser where I left the leaf but that was also the spot that had the PM. Thinking it was on the older leaves and the denisty was great place to hide from the KHCO3.
I'd probably just go with the Sunshine #4 but what to do with all that dirt after the grow????
hey buddy my Strain is Pure Power Plant i just love the high great yields i think your making a good choice from not defoilating as for how big of a pot i think your on the right track with transplanting into 5 gallon if you go to big of a pot to fast it can slow growth ,
but if you can going into flower try one plant week in flower transplant one of them 5 gallons into 10 gallon pot and give us a yield report once you get them chopped
Here is a good read for some of you thinking of Defoilating your plants
Gas Exchange in Plants
In order to carry on photosynthesis, green plants need a supply of carbon dioxide and a means of disposing of oxygen. In order to carry on cellular respiration, plant cells need oxygen and a means of disposing of carbon dioxide (just as animal cells do).
Unlike animals, plants have no specialized organs for gas exchange (with the few inevitable exceptions!). The are several reasons they can get along without them:
Each part of the plant takes care of its own gas exchange needs. Although plants have an elaborate liquid transport system, it does not participate in gas transport.
Roots, stems, and leaves respire at rates much lower than are characteristic of animals. Only during photosynthesis are large volumes of gases exchanged, and each leaf is well adapted to take care of its own needs.
The distance that gases must diffuse in even a large plant is not great. Each living cell in the plant is located close to the surface. While obvious for leaves, it is also true for stems. The only living cells in the stem are organized in thin layers just beneath the bark. The cells in the interior are dead and serve only to provide mechanical support.
Most of the living cells in a plant have at least part of their surface exposed to air. The loose packing of parenchyma cells in leaves, stems, and roots provides an interconnecting system of air spaces. Gases diffuse through air several thousand times faster than through water. Once oxygen and carbon dioxide reach the network of intercellular air spaces (arrows), they diffuse rapidly through them.
Oxygen and carbon dioxide also pass through the cell wall and plasma membrane of the cell by diffusion. The diffusion of carbon dioxide may be aided by aquaporin channels inserted in the plasma membrane.
Leaves
The exchange of oxygen and carbon dioxide in the leaf (as well as the loss of water vapor in transpiration) occurs through pores called stomata (singular = stoma).
Normally stomata open when the light strikes the leaf in the morning and close during the night.
The immediate cause is a change in the turgor of the guard cells. The inner wall of each guard cell is thick and elastic. When turgor develops within the two guard cells flanking each stoma, the thin outer walls bulge out and force the inner walls into a crescent shape. This opens the stoma. When the guard cells lose turgor, the elastic inner walls regain their original shape and the stoma closes.
Time Osmotic Pressure, lb/in2
7 A.M. 212
11 A.M. 456
5 P.M. 272
12 midnight 191
The table shows the osmotic pressure measured at different times of day in typical guard cells. The osmotic pressure within the other cells of the lower epidermis remained constant at 150 lb/in2 (~1000 kilopascal, kPa). When the osmotic pressure of the guard cells became greater than that of the surrounding cells, the stomata opened. In the evening, when the osmotic pressure of the guard cells dropped to nearly that of the surrounding cells, the stomata closed.
Opening stomata
The increase in osmotic pressure in the guard cells is caused by an uptake of potassium ions (K+). The concentration of K+ in open guard cells far exceeds that in the surrounding cells. This is how it accumulates:
Blue light is absorbed by phototropin which activates
a proton pump (an H+-ATPase) in the plasma membrane of the guard cell.
ATP, generated by the light reactions of photosynthesis, drives the pump.
As protons (H+) are pumped out of the cell, its interior becomes increasingly negative.
This attracts additional potassium ions into the cell, raising its osmotic pressure.
Closing stomata
Although open stomata are essential for photosynthesis, they also expose the plant to the risk of losing water through transpiration. Some 90% of the water taken up by a plant is lost in transpiration.
In angiosperms and gymnosperms (but not in ferns and lycopsids), Abscisic acid (ABA) is the hormone that triggers closing of the stomata when soil water is insufficient to keep up with transpiration (which often occurs around mid-day).
The mechanism:
ABA binds to receptors at the surface of the plasma membrane of the guard cells.
The receptors activate several interconnecting pathways which converge to produce
a rise in pH in the cytosol;
transfer of Ca2+ from the vacuole to the cytosol.
These changes
stimulate the loss of negatively-charged ions (anions), especially NO3− and Cl−, from the cell and also
the loss of K+ from the cell.
The loss of these solutes in the cytosol reduces the osmotic pressure of the cell and thus turgor.
The stomata close.
Open stomata also provide an opening through which bacteria can invade the interior of the leaf. However, guard cells have receptors that can detect the presence of molecules associated with bacteria called pathogen-associated molecular patterns (PAMPs). LPS and flagellin are examples. When the guard cells detect these PAMPs, ABA mediates closure of the stoma and thus close the door to bacterial entry.
This system of innate immunity resembles that found in animals. Link to discussion.
Density of stomata
The density of stomata produced on growing leaves varies with such factors as:
the temperature, humidity, and light intensity around the plant;
and also, as it turns out, the concentration of carbon dioxide in the air around the leaves. The relationship is inverse; that is, as the concentration of CO2 goes up, the number of stomata produced goes down, and vice versa. Some evidence:
Plants grown in an artificial atmosphere with a high level of CO2 have fewer stomata than normal.
Herbarium specimens reveal that the number of stomata in a given species has been declining over the last 200 years — the time of the industrial revolution and rising levels of CO2 in the atmosphere
These data can be quantified by determining the stomatal index: the ratio of the number of stomata in a given area divided by the total number of stomata and other epidermal cells in that same area.
How does the plant determine how many stomata to produce?
It turns out that the mature leaves on the plant ( You know the ones your taking off hahaha ) detect the conditions around them and send a signal (its nature still unknown*) that adjusts the number of stomata that will form on the developing leaves.
Gas Exchange in Plants
In order to carry on photosynthesis, green plants need a supply of carbon dioxide and a means of disposing of oxygen. In order to carry on cellular respiration, plant cells need oxygen and a means of disposing of carbon dioxide (just as animal cells do).
Unlike animals, plants have no specialized organs for gas exchange (with the few inevitable exceptions!). The are several reasons they can get along without them:
Each part of the plant takes care of its own gas exchange needs. Although plants have an elaborate liquid transport system, it does not participate in gas transport.
Roots, stems, and leaves respire at rates much lower than are characteristic of animals. Only during photosynthesis are large volumes of gases exchanged, and each leaf is well adapted to take care of its own needs.
The distance that gases must diffuse in even a large plant is not great. Each living cell in the plant is located close to the surface. While obvious for leaves, it is also true for stems. The only living cells in the stem are organized in thin layers just beneath the bark. The cells in the interior are dead and serve only to provide mechanical support.
Most of the living cells in a plant have at least part of their surface exposed to air. The loose packing of parenchyma cells in leaves, stems, and roots provides an interconnecting system of air spaces. Gases diffuse through air several thousand times faster than through water. Once oxygen and carbon dioxide reach the network of intercellular air spaces (arrows), they diffuse rapidly through them.
Oxygen and carbon dioxide also pass through the cell wall and plasma membrane of the cell by diffusion. The diffusion of carbon dioxide may be aided by aquaporin channels inserted in the plasma membrane.
Leaves
The exchange of oxygen and carbon dioxide in the leaf (as well as the loss of water vapor in transpiration) occurs through pores called stomata (singular = stoma).
Normally stomata open when the light strikes the leaf in the morning and close during the night.
The immediate cause is a change in the turgor of the guard cells. The inner wall of each guard cell is thick and elastic. When turgor develops within the two guard cells flanking each stoma, the thin outer walls bulge out and force the inner walls into a crescent shape. This opens the stoma. When the guard cells lose turgor, the elastic inner walls regain their original shape and the stoma closes.
Time Osmotic Pressure, lb/in2
7 A.M. 212
11 A.M. 456
5 P.M. 272
12 midnight 191
The table shows the osmotic pressure measured at different times of day in typical guard cells. The osmotic pressure within the other cells of the lower epidermis remained constant at 150 lb/in2 (~1000 kilopascal, kPa). When the osmotic pressure of the guard cells became greater than that of the surrounding cells, the stomata opened. In the evening, when the osmotic pressure of the guard cells dropped to nearly that of the surrounding cells, the stomata closed.
Opening stomata
The increase in osmotic pressure in the guard cells is caused by an uptake of potassium ions (K+). The concentration of K+ in open guard cells far exceeds that in the surrounding cells. This is how it accumulates:
Blue light is absorbed by phototropin which activates
a proton pump (an H+-ATPase) in the plasma membrane of the guard cell.
ATP, generated by the light reactions of photosynthesis, drives the pump.
As protons (H+) are pumped out of the cell, its interior becomes increasingly negative.
This attracts additional potassium ions into the cell, raising its osmotic pressure.
Closing stomata
Although open stomata are essential for photosynthesis, they also expose the plant to the risk of losing water through transpiration. Some 90% of the water taken up by a plant is lost in transpiration.
In angiosperms and gymnosperms (but not in ferns and lycopsids), Abscisic acid (ABA) is the hormone that triggers closing of the stomata when soil water is insufficient to keep up with transpiration (which often occurs around mid-day).
The mechanism:
ABA binds to receptors at the surface of the plasma membrane of the guard cells.
The receptors activate several interconnecting pathways which converge to produce
a rise in pH in the cytosol;
transfer of Ca2+ from the vacuole to the cytosol.
These changes
stimulate the loss of negatively-charged ions (anions), especially NO3− and Cl−, from the cell and also
the loss of K+ from the cell.
The loss of these solutes in the cytosol reduces the osmotic pressure of the cell and thus turgor.
The stomata close.
Open stomata also provide an opening through which bacteria can invade the interior of the leaf. However, guard cells have receptors that can detect the presence of molecules associated with bacteria called pathogen-associated molecular patterns (PAMPs). LPS and flagellin are examples. When the guard cells detect these PAMPs, ABA mediates closure of the stoma and thus close the door to bacterial entry.
This system of innate immunity resembles that found in animals. Link to discussion.
Density of stomata
The density of stomata produced on growing leaves varies with such factors as:
the temperature, humidity, and light intensity around the plant;
and also, as it turns out, the concentration of carbon dioxide in the air around the leaves. The relationship is inverse; that is, as the concentration of CO2 goes up, the number of stomata produced goes down, and vice versa. Some evidence:
Plants grown in an artificial atmosphere with a high level of CO2 have fewer stomata than normal.
Herbarium specimens reveal that the number of stomata in a given species has been declining over the last 200 years — the time of the industrial revolution and rising levels of CO2 in the atmosphere
These data can be quantified by determining the stomatal index: the ratio of the number of stomata in a given area divided by the total number of stomata and other epidermal cells in that same area.
How does the plant determine how many stomata to produce?
It turns out that the mature leaves on the plant ( You know the ones your taking off hahaha ) detect the conditions around them and send a signal (its nature still unknown*) that adjusts the number of stomata that will form on the developing leaves.
The idea of wanting more yield is fine, cutting off leaves, not so much. I have been working towards the former for 3 years.
I am now in my 3rd gen DIY 21st Century F & D system. It allows me to 'flood' during late veg- midflower every 30 minutes. Growth is explosive, nugs are big and fat.
I started a new thread in Indoor Hydro section
I am now in my 3rd gen DIY 21st Century F & D system. It allows me to 'flood' during late veg- midflower every 30 minutes. Growth is explosive, nugs are big and fat.
I started a new thread in Indoor Hydro section
Yes Steve i have seperate rooms, i have grown all styles having lets just say 1400 plants in all different stages of growth in the past.
You mentioned you checked out my last grow, not bad ya think ??? 76 oz 5 plants ?????? with out C02 stick around wanna see 140 0z 10 plant with c02 and that is without taking any important leafs away
Here is a better concept if your trying to get more light to lower bud sites place vertical bulbs, run 1000's they penetrate like no other, stretch plant out (sideways )
tie them. this will allow lower bud sites to get light, anyways removing leafs is only
going to effect osmosis yes osmosis leafs transpire , and resperate like putting your self in a big plastic bag and making you run 5 miles in the heat that is more or less what your doing to a plant, where do you think plant takes up c02 ??? and a plant releases 02, why do you think animals have thick hair is it for winter months ??? it also cools them down in the summer months
St3ve you mentioned slower vegging systems ????? you actually think soil is slowest vegging system ???? i take it your a hydro guy ??? plants grow differently in different environments, when a person has a room so dialed in a fart can be detected with rooms being dialed in , and lots of light this creates a perfect grow
St3ve i take it you litterally flip plants at a premature age ???
if you think soil is the slowest growing method i would re think that thought here is a pic i think its 35 days vegged and day 9 flowering from flip pretty slow growth you think for soil
PS: the scrog table was set @ 5 foot height
It looks to me you're pretty boss at growing no doubt. Yes I am a hydro guy.
So given your dialed room, you think you could grow soil as fast as you could grow hydro in the same room?
And what do you mean flip plants at a premature age? I'm not sure where you gathered that from.
And as I have said a few times now.. its not about getting light to the lower budsites.. its about changing the structure of the plants in veg.
And yes, that was an awesome yield.. as I already said.
St3ve Yes i believe i can grow from clone just as fast then guys do in hydro,
as for Yields i think per plant again i can out do hydro i have learned root mass = Yield most hydro growers like work in small areas packing into 4" - 6"rockwool cubes or 5 gallon pails etc running 80 plants growing from clone and veg a week or to and flip flood an drain what ever Feeding them 1600 ppm hell in soil i need to feet my big girls 1600ppm specially in flower
Don't get me wrong it works sure you see some nice root mass , but then you see root mass out of a 34 gallon tote is a total different league in its own and you will be shocked at the amount of roots pretty much the same as growing out door plants
to maximize yields its not worrying about lower bud sites its about creating many top bud sites having a even canopy
as for Yields i think per plant again i can out do hydro i have learned root mass = Yield most hydro growers like work in small areas packing into 4" - 6"rockwool cubes or 5 gallon pails etc running 80 plants growing from clone and veg a week or to and flip flood an drain what ever Feeding them 1600 ppm hell in soil i need to feet my big girls 1600ppm specially in flower
Don't get me wrong it works sure you see some nice root mass , but then you see root mass out of a 34 gallon tote is a total different league in its own and you will be shocked at the amount of roots pretty much the same as growing out door plants
to maximize yields its not worrying about lower bud sites its about creating many top bud sites having a even canopy
conehead
Active member
To Defoliate or not to Defoliate?
To Defoliate or not to Defoliate?
Hi K33ftr33z, Nice thread bro. I am a bonsai teacher & defoliation Does not harm most plants. If done by hand & a very clean (sterile) & sharp cutting tool is used. I know this is not about bonsai but....
I defoliate my deciduous bonsai plants at the start of Spring/Fall, just as plant fills out Then I defoliate the whole plant again towards the last month of Summer. By doing this I can decrease the size of the leaves produced by the plant by 75% & up to 90% of original size. This method needs to be repeated for about three years & then the plant will get the message.
Plants I have treated with this method over many years has shown me many times over that the defoliated plants are stronger & more vigorous than any counter part plant that has grown under normal conditions.
Do not defoliate stressed out plants & bonsai mums/moms unless full vigor is visable, Only Defoliate when plants are strong & vigorous in general.
To Defoliate or not to Defoliate?
Hi K33ftr33z, Nice thread bro. I am a bonsai teacher & defoliation Does not harm most plants. If done by hand & a very clean (sterile) & sharp cutting tool is used. I know this is not about bonsai but....
I defoliate my deciduous bonsai plants at the start of Spring/Fall, just as plant fills out Then I defoliate the whole plant again towards the last month of Summer. By doing this I can decrease the size of the leaves produced by the plant by 75% & up to 90% of original size. This method needs to be repeated for about three years & then the plant will get the message.
Plants I have treated with this method over many years has shown me many times over that the defoliated plants are stronger & more vigorous than any counter part plant that has grown under normal conditions.
Do not defoliate stressed out plants & bonsai mums/moms unless full vigor is visable, Only Defoliate when plants are strong & vigorous in general.
It sounds like you are a better grower than I am. I have done many styles of soil and hydro and I could never grow soil as fast as I can grow hydro.
I would be interested in how you could perform with a properly defoliated plant. If someone like me can increase yields with it, I'm sure you could probably hit 5-6# with it. And because you keep talking about lower bud sites, I am going to say this very slow:
Defoliating is most effective in that it changes the structure of the plant in veg creating more tops and more budsites.
Sorry if it sounds like I'm being an ass, but I keep saying this and you keep responding with "its not about light to the lower bud sites". That plant you just posted looks awesome. However, what if you could have squeezed in 30% more tops?
St3ve show me one of your plants with more tops from defoilating you mention how i would perform with a proper defoilated plant ????? sorry to rain on your parade but i own a garden center that has bin family run for over 50 years i think i would know a thing or 2 about plants and horticulture
Also i think your the one mentioning lower bud sites as to defoliate so light can get to lower bud sites
and to be honest like myself i don't care about lower bud sites as well most commercial growers get rid of lower bud sites or just make hash / oil out of them cause they never really mature like middle of plant and up and there is no way in hell a bud site on bottom end of plant near soil will ever come near the size of a top bud so really bottom line lower buds become fill and shake yea you throw a little of that stuff to make a 1/2 pound bag other then that
Buyers of pounds of weed want decent sized buds not shake
you mention how i would perform with a proper defoilated plant ????? sorry to rain on your parade but i own a garden center that has bin family run for over 50 years i think i would know a thing or 2 about plants and horticulture Also i think your the one mentioning lower bud sites as to defoliate so light can get to lower bud sites
and to be honest like myself i don't care about lower bud sites as well most commercial growers get rid of lower bud sites or just make hash / oil out of them cause they never really mature like middle of plant and up and there is no way in hell a bud site on bottom end of plant near soil will ever come near the size of a top bud so really bottom line lower buds become fill and shake yea you throw a little of that stuff to make a 1/2 pound bag other then that
Buyers of pounds of weed want decent sized buds not shake
T
TribalSeeds
St3ve show me one of your plants with more tops from defoilating
Also i think your the one mentioning lower bud sites as to defoliate so light can get to lower bud sites
and to be honest like myself i don't care about lower bud sites as well most commercial growers get rid of lower bud sites or just make hash / oil out of them cause they never really mature like middle of plant and up and there is no way in hell a bud site on bottom end of plant near soil will ever come near the size of a top bud so really bottom line lower buds become fill and shake yea you throw a little of that stuff to make a 1/2 pound bag other then that
Buyers of pounds of weed want decent sized buds not shake
^1st page^
Remember kiddos : "Those saying a thing cannot be done, should never be interrupting someone doing that thing successfully"
I gotta admit, that I havent done it yet. If you look at my plants they would be a good example of what happens when defoliation goes wrong!
Again to create more tops Fimming technique Super cropping , LST, topping create tops not plucking leafs hahaha i so can't wait to pull 10 pounds off 9 - 12 plants my next grow with no plucking of leafs hell i let plant suck up all the starches, sugars in leafs to make big hard packed Nugs that don't shrivel up to nothing when dryed 
hell i let plant suck up all the starches, sugars in leafs to make big hard packed Nugs that don't shrivel up to nothing when dryed
Leaves are like solar panels. What is going to give you more juice, the huge ones that are mounted on a roof or a 6"x9" one used to charge AAA batteries?
Do you cut the leaves off an apple tree because the apples are in the shade?
It's your plant, but I'd think about it before you get happy with the snips.
Stress induced by removing leaves causes the plant to produce auxins too recover, this is good and bad, too much can make plants stretch fluffy buds and unexpected pheno. expressions. only remove leaves that are completely dead tug on them if they come off easy then plant has used all that it needed from them
Do you cut the leaves off an apple tree because the apples are in the shade?
It's your plant, but I'd think about it before you get happy with the snips.
Stress induced by removing leaves causes the plant to produce auxins too recover, this is good and bad, too much can make plants stretch fluffy buds and unexpected pheno. expressions. only remove leaves that are completely dead tug on them if they come off easy then plant has used all that it needed from them
T
TribalSeeds
Dr. you have awesome plants! How much room do they take up?
I feel you didnt read the OP and missed the point here, or you wouldnt have set yourself up like that...
The OP says that his take up 32" cubed under 400 W's produces the same total per plant(12oz) as yours under 1000W. Im sure the OP could fit more plants in that space youre using and produce more bud with defoliation using more plants in the same space. I cant imagine his results with 1000Wers! He already soaks the plant from top to bottom with just 400's
Since you didnt read the first post by the OP you might have missed the cliff notes version! Its easy reading bro!
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=3885667&postcount=1381
I feel you didnt read the OP and missed the point here, or you wouldnt have set yourself up like that...
The OP says that his take up 32" cubed under 400 W's produces the same total per plant(12oz) as yours under 1000W. Im sure the OP could fit more plants in that space youre using and produce more bud with defoliation using more plants in the same space. I cant imagine his results with 1000Wers! He already soaks the plant from top to bottom with just 400's
Since you didnt read the first post by the OP you might have missed the cliff notes version! Its easy reading bro!
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=3885667&postcount=1381
I feel like I'm beating my head against the wall. I am trying to explain to you what I HAVE ACTUALLY experienced many times over, just like the OP. You continue to share the science of plants which is not relevant in what this thread is about. All of your analogies don't change what I know to be fact from my own personally experience.
I give up DrFever.. apparently you got it all figured out. Can't teach an old dog new tricks..
I give up DrFever.. apparently you got it all figured out. Can't teach an old dog new tricks..
S
sweetestsin420
i LIKE to trim huge fan leaves,not so much in veg,but in flower,after the stretch is over.obviosly the leaves SERVE a purpose,thats biology 101,but i think the plants can afford to lose alot of the fan leaves,with no ill effect,especially considering the perfect conditions and nutrient rich solutions theyr grown indoors,i think if a plant is sick,stressed or in general bad condition,then yeah trimming too much can harm them even MORE,but if theyr in very good condition,then they will benefit from the increased light penetration.
i have personally done this,and no i did not notice any stress,the plants continued growing as if nothing happened.
also,i feel that each grower has to determine of a trimming is even necesary,iv seen alot of indica dominant plants grow huge,fat fanleaves,with small buds,and i just cant help but think "damn that guy should have trimmed"..then iv seen some viney,sativa like plants,that practically look defoliated with no trimming at all (think trainwreck,og kushes)
i have personally done this,and no i did not notice any stress,the plants continued growing as if nothing happened.
also,i feel that each grower has to determine of a trimming is even necesary,iv seen alot of indica dominant plants grow huge,fat fanleaves,with small buds,and i just cant help but think "damn that guy should have trimmed"..then iv seen some viney,sativa like plants,that practically look defoliated with no trimming at all (think trainwreck,og kushes)
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