Defoliation: Hi-Yield Technique?

[!!!]

People have been saying the same thing in this thread for nearly a year and not a single person has produced results. So i wont hold my breath..

maybe because nobody gives a shit about you? Why would we take pics and post them on this thread if it doesn't benefit us AT ALL?

If YOU care, then feel free to PM people you deem experienced growers and ask them for their personal opinion and experience. You'd have more luck than waiting for replies here.

 

[JWP]

maybe because nobody gives a shit about you? Why would we take pics and post them on this thread if it doesn't benefit us AT ALL?

If YOU care, then feel free to PM people you deem experienced growers and ask them for their personal opinion and experience. You'd have more luck than waiting for replies here.

Get real. All of you defoliators would give your left nutts for some evidence to post here and say "in yo face"..

The truth is you cant produce evidence because it is impossible or it would have been done a year ago at your first opportunity.

 

[LivingKoan]

Get real. All of you defoliators would give your left nutts for some evidence to post here and say "in yo face"..

The truth is you cant produce evidence because it is impossible or it would have been done a year ago at your first opportunity.

I think there is plenty of evidence for its effectiveness. From my own personal experience I can tell you, defoliating stimulates branching and budding. When you expose lower branches to light they are stimulated to grow. If a growth tip doesn't receive light, it will not grow. That seems fairly obvious to me. The same way the lower parts of the plant don't bud as well as the tops, they aren't exposed to light.

In nature the plant receives light from different angles all through out the day, so in an artificial setting you have to maximize your canopy and light penetration.

Also, please quit acting like a pompous asshole.

 

[JWP]

I tkhin there is plenty of evidence for its effectiveness.

If there is plenty of evidence it shouldnt be too much trouble to point it out...

 

[LivingKoan]

If there is plenty of evidence it shouldnt be too much trouble to point it out...

I gave you my anecdotal evidence, read my post.

 

[JWP]

Also, please quit acting like a pompous asshole.

I gave you my anecdotal evidence, read my post.

Anecdotal evidence;

(1) Evidence in the form of an anecdote or hearsay is called anecdotal if there is doubt about its veracity; the evidence itself is considered untrustworthy.
(2) Evidence, which may itself be true and verifiable, used to deduce a conclusion which does not follow from it, usually by generalizing from an insufficient amount of evidence.

I'm not the one perpetuating bullshit, convincing noobs to destroy their plants. So really who is the pompous asshole..

 

[dramamine]

JWP as "Mr. Furious" in Mystery Men...

Furious: "Rage...taking over !"
Casanova Frankenstein: "Ja, ja.. We have heard this before."
Furious: (Grinning maniacally) "No. Rage... REALLY... taking over !"

 

[TruthOrLie]

maybe because nobody gives a shit about you? Why would we take pics and post them on this thread if it doesn't benefit us AT ALL?

If YOU care, then feel free to PM people you deem experienced growers and ask them for their personal opinion and experience. You'd have more luck than waiting for replies here.

See, this here is what I just don't get.

Let's take a little trip over to the Colloidial Silver thread.

In this thread we have someone claiming to have a way to turn a female into a male and pollinate itself or other females.

Where would this thread be without PROOF?

"Oh, just try it yourself. Buy some silver, buy some wires, plug it in, spray it for a month, and wallah. If you don't believe me then shove it"

IT JUST DON'T WORK LIKE THAT FOLKS.

You're suggesting people take their expensive ass hobby and play around with it with no pictures showing substantial proof?

That might work fine for the peanut gallery, but not for me.


THANKS TO ALL THOSE IN THE COLLOIDIAL SILVER THREAD for showing AMPLE _proof_ that the method works.


Furthermore, no one is disputing that you can cut the leaves off your plant and it will still grow.

Also, no one is disputing that cutting the leaves off the plant alters its structure as it continues to grow.

The argument is, does defoliating really do anything beneficial, or just help you compensate for poor forsight on grow set up?

Are you just bored and want to do something to your plants to feel "involved"?

I'll be honest, when a leaf starts looking bad, I pull it. I tell myself not to because the plant isn't done juicing the leaf, but I do pull leaves off sometimes.

Hi-yield technique? DOUBT it.

 

[LivingKoan]

Anecdotal evidence;

(1) Evidence in the form of an anecdote or hearsay is called anecdotal if there is doubt about its veracity; the evidence itself is considered untrustworthy.
(2) Evidence, which may itself be true and verifiable, used to deduce a conclusion which does not follow from it, usually by generalizing from an insufficient amount of evidence.

I'm not the one perpetuating bullshit, convincing noobs to destroy their plants. So really who is the pompous asshole..

Heres the definition I understand anecdotal evidence as:
non-scientific observations or studies, which do not provide proof but may assist research efforts.

That is to say, just because some fucking guy in a lab coat hasn't written about the phenomena, doesn't mean it isn't true.

You didn't even address the points I made. You're still the pompous asshole, sorry.

 

[!!!]

Get real. All of you defoliators would give your left nutts for some evidence to post here and say "in yo face"..

The truth is you cant produce evidence because it is impossible or it would have been done a year ago at your first opportunity.

There's absolutely no reason anybody here needs to provide you or anyone else with "evidence." Why do I care if you use this or any other technique?

You remind me of a lot of new growers who are scared shitless of topping their plants. The expression on their face is priceless when I walk in and just rip the tops off with my hand. It's not that serious.. but I noticed the best growers are the ones that are open to trying things out rather than lagging behind by waiting on the rest of us to do all the R&D for them.

Nearly the entire Cannabis community is based on anecdotes and so most of our word is no better than the original post anyway.

My experience #1: When I first read this I defoliated a few plants completely to see if they will survive. They did. Then I defoliated some plants in late flower and growth was stunted by 1-2 weeks. Plants finished late and yield was hurt.

My experience #2: Several heavy defoliations in veg gave me plants a lot of small leaves instead of large fan leaves. Plants did not shade each other in flower, and after the first defoliation (after stretch) plants recovered quickly and had ample light throughout canopy. Again, no shading, and this resulted in a higher yield than normal but smaller buds. Previously I only had big buds above the canopy.

If I had lollipopped heavily and had space between non-defoliated plants, my yield would have probably been higher, but indoors space and lumens are limited.

This technique works for ME by letting me make the most out of my 600w and small area. It's a training method like LST/scrog/topping. Do I always use it? No. I'm lazy, but it's a great tool in my arsenal.

I'm not going to go rip every leaf off my plants based on any "evidence" presented here and neither should you. Try it on a few plants and decide for yourself.

 

[LivingKoan]

Also, I'd like to mention; how do you prove this? Yield is subject to many environmental factors. Someone address the points I made on the previous page please, so we can have a serious discussion.

 

[TruthOrLie]

I think there is plenty of evidence for its effectiveness. From my own personal experience I can tell you, defoliating stimulates branching and budding. When you expose lower branches to light they are stimulated to grow. If a growth tip doesn't receive light, it will not grow. That seems fairly obvious to me. The same way the lower parts of the plant don't bud as well as the tops, they aren't exposed to light.

In nature the plant receives light from different angles all through out the day, so in an artificial setting you have to maximize your canopy and light penetration.

Also, please quit acting like a pompous asshole.

Read my post from the previous page so we can have a serious discussion? Sounds pompous to me.

Anyway, here you go:

You think there is plenty of evidence for its effectiveness?

Where?

All I see are people taking pictures of defoliated plants.

In order to demonstrate effectiveness there should be plant with all of its folliage grown under the same conditions showing subpar development. This would be demonstrating effectiveness.

All I see throughout this thread is proof that your plants KEEP GROWING even if you defoliate them.

I can't argue with that!

 

[TruthOrLie]

Also, I'd like to mention; how do you prove this? Yield is subject to many environmental factors. Someone address the points I made on the previous page please, so we can have a serious discussion.

You take a plant (A).

You defoliate plant A in veg. Give (A) two more weeks of veg time.

Then you take another plant (B). Don't defoliate (B) in veg.

Give plant B the SAME ammount of veg time as (A).

put both plants into flower at same time, far enough apart so (A) is not shadowed by (B) and they are both equal distance from light source.

Water plant A accordingly (probably will need less food/water than plant B)

Continue to defoliate plant A throughout flower, do not defoliate plant B.

HARVEST BOTH PLANTS AT SAME TIME.

DRY.

WEIGH.

SMOKE SAMPLE.

Equivalent quality? Equivalent quantity? Who outperformed who?


IS ANYBODY UP TO THIS CHALLENGE?

 

[!!!]

IS ANYBODY UP TO THIS CHALLENGE?

This hobby doesn't provide much surplus space/plants for any sort of rigorous testing. But RedSpaghetti is conducting a test AFAIK.

 

[TruthOrLie]

This hobby doesn't provide much surplus space/plants for any sort of rigorous testing. But RedSpaghetti is conducting a test AFAIK.

So a newbie, who has never tried or tested this method is supposed to just give it a shot...

But no one who KNOWS it works will take the time to demonstrate.

Sounds fishy?

 

[JWP]

This hobby doesn't provide much surplus space/plants for any sort of rigorous testing. But RedSpaghetti is conducting a test AFAIK.

Wake up to reality! Your telling me all you defoliators arent running at least two plants? How simple is this? Surely your defoliating them both as this is the best way for you to max your yield.

How hard is it to simply leave one plant alone????

Apparently its really hard.

 

[JWP]

I would bet that more than one defoliator has tried to do the side by side but the results didnt turn out favorable so they didnt post the results.

Why else would this silly thread be going on for a year with no results???

The longest thread in history where people have been in disagreement from the start. More than ample opportunity to shove results in our face and say "there now stfu and go away".. but still nothing.. just more words

 

[Greensub]

You take a plant (A).

You defoliate plant A in veg. Give (A) two more weeks of veg time.

Then you take another plant (B). Don't defoliate (B) in veg.

Give plant B the SAME ammount of veg time as (A).

put both plants into flower at same time, far enough apart so (A) is not shadowed by (B) and they are both equal distance from light source.

Water plant A accordingly (probably will need less food/water than plant B)

Continue to defoliate plant A throughout flower, do not defoliate plant B.

HARVEST BOTH PLANTS AT SAME TIME.

DRY.

WEIGH.

SMOKE SAMPLE.

Equivalent quality? Equivalent quantity? Who outperformed who?


IS ANYBODY UP TO THIS CHALLENGE?

This particular challenge is unnecessary, I think we can agree that with this method plant B will most likely win, it's going to be bigger overall.

None of us here on the defoliation side are suggesting that defol during veg will increase yields unless it is accompanied by a longer veg time.

We're willing to admit to the negative of having to veg for longer with this technique.

My own test that I plan on trying in the future is similar but takes extended veg time into account.

Take 2 clones (A & B)

Grow clone A naturally to a specific height or size and place into flower.

DF clone B and veg to Identical height or size (this will take longer, we all admit this) place into flower

Harvest each plant when it's ready, keep track of length of veg & length of flower times for comparison purposes.

DRY.

WEIGH.

SMOKE SAMPLE.

Equivalent quality? Equivalent quantity? Who outperformed who?

You might say that this is unfair... the DF'd plant get's longer in veg and more growth time overall... I would say that's the whole point. More veg time & more time alive (an older more mature plant) isn't that generally an accepted high yield technique... grow the plant longer?

The point with DF'ing is that you have an older, denser, bushier (i.e. Bigger) but it takes the same cubic footprint in your flowering space as a younger, less dense, not so bushy non-defoliated plant.

I'm still playing with it myself...

 

[Greensub]

Ok, Head....just for you brother. The numbers are in and I am super stoked! A little history for you first. The tent that they are in has been ran 6 times. 2.7x 2.7 foot tent with the same 3 strains. Querkle, Space Dawg, and Grapefruit. Average yield 8 oz, but the Space Dawg yields best and Querkle is the poorest yielder.

I started defoliating in flower, about 3 to 4 weeks after the flip. Nothing in veg. The buds were visibly larger, and had zero waste. Here are the numbers.

Space Dawg 1: 110.4g
Space Dawg 2: 65.8
Querkle : 63.4
Grapefruit : 92.4

Total: 331.0 g

So, there you have it that comes out to 11.82 oz. in a small tent. That is about a 25% increase in yield. This was in 1 gallon Smart Pots. My one plant alone was over 4 oz. I have never heard of that big of a yield in a 1 gal pot. Not an easy thing to accomplish in such a small container.

Well there you have it, told you my scale did not lie! I apologize for bickering with you, but I had to prove my point. I am passionate about my hobby. I hope you can see that I am not making shit up, and everything I told you was the truth about knowing I had more by just looking at it.

Any questions or comments are welcome. And for the other people who chime in with negative things to say. I told you so!

What fault did you guys find with slowandeasy's comparisons? He explained his rotating schedule very clearly in other posts and how he was comparing weights. It made sense to me... Unless you're just calling him a liar?

 

[DankSide]

Okay so is it pretty clear then that defoliation in veg isn't a good idea?
It seems this method is best applied to leafy sativas about a month into flower.

By someones advice earlier in the thread, I defoliated 2 in veg. The 2 defoliated were the runts of the pack, low yield in comparison.

Maybe defoliation if right for the situation will be effective, but what about compared to other methods.

LST and FIM/Topping are what I hold as effective. I don't believe defoliation can contend with those 2.