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Cops Rock!

NiteTiger

Tiger, Tiger, burning bright...
Veteran
That's right, I think police officers, in general, rock. I'm very glad they are here!

Now, obviously, this post is made with an inflammatory headline meant to garner responses. However, that does not mean it is a subject to be handled lightly.

Often here on ICMag, reports of law enforcement activity are met with a knee-jerk reaction of "cops suck". This is understandable, considering our diametrically opposed views. However, I don't think many think that phrase all the way through.

Police officers, in general, are just trying to do their jobs as bestt they know how. We can all disagree about the methods and laws themselves, but the police officer is no different than other wage slaves.

Let's clarify this early: I do not defend or support cops that abuse their powers. Cops that are merely thugs hiding behind a badge are no more than that - thugs, no matter their costume.

However, the vast majority of cops I've met are not like that. To be fair, I've probably had a much greater number and depth of cop encounters than your average IC magger. This gives me a broader spectrum to make that judgment than most.

That being said, the simple fact is that most cops are no different than me. I choose to grow pot to help the sick and needy in the community I can reach. Most police officers are merely trying to do their job - enforcing the laws the community has chosen.

In other words, the majority of cops I have met are genuinely concerned about protecting and helping people. Obviously, there are some that cast a poor shadow on the others. That's no different than any other job on this planet, however.

Next point - Many here on IC have such a virulent hatred of the "drug warrior" that they extend that perception to everyone wearing a badge. This is wrong. Justify it however you want, but the simple fact is that most references to police on this site bring such an overwhelming and virulent hatred and violence that it is nigh overwhelming.

That is not outside of reason, given the wildly drastic positions each side has. What is outside of reason is the violence engendered by this atmosphere of "supported hate". Pot supporters, by and large, present an attitude of tolerance and acceptance in most aspects of their lives. However, the viciousness of those they turn on is frightening.

All pot smokers are violent criminals preying on schoolkids.

All cops are violent Nazi pigs intent on killing anyone that dares oppose them.

Both those statements are both wrong, not only factually, but in spirit as well. Generalizations are meant to engender hate and dismissal. Hate is one thing - it can be fought with knowledge. Dismissal is a purposeful ignorance - an active desire to perpetuate division.

This cuts both ways.

By labeling any section of the population, you devalue them. Devaluation is the first step to dehumanizing. Dehumanizing a group makes it okay to treat them as animals. Before you know it, that group is lined up in gas showers.

It's an excuse. You want someone to hate, you want someone to blame. You can't blame yourselves, since that would hit too close to home. So you have to avail yourself of the easiest target you can find. And where is the easiest target? The one who enforces.

People whine and bitch incessantly about the abuses of cops, but no one points out their value. I, for one, can see beyond my own horizons.

I'm very glad that cops are out doing their jobs. They keep idiots in check, and provide a modicum of stability in our day to day lives. The people willing to attack me, for whatever reason, are at least somewhat discouraged by the fact that armed, trained men are willing and ready to defend me with nothing more than a phone call.

Hell, there are more than a few people I'd have scrubbed off the face of this earth if it weren't for the threat of swift a decisive punishment. :D

In short, I challenge you cop haters. You're no better than the stoner haters. You hate someone merely by association and prejudice. That makes you no better than a KKK member. And yet you choose to trumpet this fact as a badge of honor.

Those 'general haters' need to fucking grow up. An intelligent human being attempts to look outside their own narrow viewpoint. The ignorant, and deliberately stupid work to perpetuate their own excuse for hatred.

Which are you?

More importantly, why?

I ask you not to use this thread as a vent for your unmitigated hatred. Instead, I ask you to justify it. Challenge yourself, and find compassion and understanding.

Discuss.

[Full disclosure] - I've worked on both sides of the badge, both training cops and circumventing them. I've experienced both sides of the handcuffs. You cannot hide behind bullshit from me, I'll spot it immediately, and make you feel like the stupidest motherfucker that ever logged onto the internet.
 

love?

Member
I know you shouldn't believe what you see on TV but...

Ever watch COPS or one of the gazillion shows like it? The cops are on camera so you'd think this is the one time, if ever, that they'd behave but even still a lot of them act like total scumbags and don't treat the people they are supposed to serve like people at all.

There seems to be a lot of differences between countries though. For example UK cops are real assholes and this isn't just based on TV either, lol, no idea where the myth of the friendly bobby is from. But cops aren't as bad everywhere.
 

treewizard

Member
I've met police from a few very different areas. Cops in the south tend to be more the "thug with a badge" type. Out west they seem to be more reasonable. However, cops in Portland are famous for excessive force. They never seem to get in trouble for beating people to death. So how can you blame people for hating them? Not only that but in the words of Einstein:"The prestige of government has undoubtedly been lowered considerably by the Prohibition law. For nothing is more destructive of respect for the government and the law of the land than passing laws which cannot be enforced. It is an open secret that the dangerous increase of crime in this country is closely connected with this." Yet police intrest groups lobby to keep this going all of the time.

With that being said cops that are over 55 usually seem to be very reasonable people. There are good people who are cops. With that being said though I used to do day labor with a crack dealer who was a pretty decent guy. I don't hate cops for being cops however I would mention that there seem to be a lot of wife beater cops out there too.
http://www.seattlepi.com/police/
That took me 2 seconds to find. My aunt and her oldest son had their lives ruined by an abusive cop husband/father. It seems like the more draconian the State the worse police corruption and brutality are.

Lastly I have trouble respecting someone who signs up to be the long arm of a criminal organization(govt) The laws that they enforce were not enacted by me or my peers. Consent is manufactured and the vote is basically a farce.
Just to keep things even:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urUhLD0fSFI
 

NiteTiger

Tiger, Tiger, burning bright...
Veteran
Tree - It's interesting you mention the age thing. I've noticed the same. Older cops tend to know what is worth their time and what is not. I've seen many more older cops dump a baggie on the side of the road than younger guys.

Is it just a natural desire to perform, do you think? Any 'young buck', in any given field, tries to shine. Does that mean a rookie/younger cop is more likely to yank your chain? In my experience, yeah, it does.

Is this a matter of baptism by fire - they have to experience it to learn - or is it something we as a community can address?
 
U

ureapwhatusow

cops like everyone else are human

through my many relationships with women and my profession (computers) I have met many

that said I have been given many courtesies and passed and know many that are quality people

this does not make them any less dangerous

see what most ppl dont discuss is the huge overlap of criminal and crimefighter

yes, many cops posses the same criminal mind set as the people they are after

couple that with the fraternal brotherhood being greater than right or wrong itself and in the greater scheme there is a growing aspect of "police state"

there are still many out there with integrity and compassion but IMHO the changing credo of protecting and serving the public vs fighting wars on drugs and crime is undermining the quality of the American dream

One big reason i don't have a record and get passes for minor shit liek traffic tickests (and no not all the time)

Im white

it real, I see it with my own 2 eyes, and I think it sucks shit that people could pledge allegiance to the flag and american, represent it in its purist form

and be grossly racial

that in of itself is one of the corner stone of police corruption

not hating, must be a amazingly tough job but the state of things makes me wonder
 

FreeMan

Member
I agree with some of what you are saying NiteTiger, but I'm not a major fan of the police in the same way I'm not a fan of the military. Large numbers of people willing to perform the slave masters command without any self assessment of the situation is dangerous regardless of whichever banner you fly under. There is a human being under every uniform, but in most cases these individuals are acting as a node for the corporation and not in a human capacity. I'm generally unimpressed with any individual who does no act with their own mind, but hate at LEO is just fuel for the fire. They need a hug!
 
Cops can be really cool and they can be very bad, luckily in my town it is major chill. if you deal pot the cops know about it within a week (rumors are horrible it takes literally 1 day for everyone in town to know someones business once revealed) If you don't have a gun/are not selling to minors/are not selling any hard drugs they literally don't care (except the rookies trying to make a name for themselves) even then cannabis charges are droped down to traffic charges even if it is a grow (unless huge) I know 2 people who have gotten off with only a warning for growing 8 plants or less. they don't arrest good people either only scumbags. I was having a party at my apartment in town a stones throw from the police station techno music strobe lights and bellows of smoke could be seen heard and smelled coming out the window as we were passing around a 3 gram joint 2 bongs and 3 bowls. I decided to accompany my mate downstairs cuz he wanted a cigarette and some fresh air (oxymoron in my opinion) anyway we opened our door and 7 count them 7 sheriffs from different towns were standing less than 3 feet from our door in a semi circle. They questioned us if we were an individual they were looking for who had shot at someone in the town (rarely happens so a big deal) the one goes man you guys look ripped both our jaws droped we were like fuuuuuuck there was smoke pouring out the windows loud music 15 people in our apartment partying with strobe lights we could smell the weed so strong then they seen the looks on our faces and just laughed and the one who said we looked ripped said don't worry were not gonna bust you. We sat there and had a half hour conversation with these cops under these conditions I have never had a repercussion of this event that was 3 years ago. They could have busted us good I had a QP and a grow at the time. This = 7 cool assed cops I am proud and honored to have such people protecting me and my family. On the other hand there are some cops I know of that are horrible horrible people that should be imprisoned for the injustice they have caused to good people and I wouldn't want to be withing 500 miles of them whether they were a cop or not. there are moral people who are able not to abuse their power just the same as there are people who grow for the right reasons and those who grow for wrong reasons.
 

NiteTiger

Tiger, Tiger, burning bright...
Veteran
I see what you're saying there Ureap, and I agree with a lot of it.

First and foremost, you're right - the fact they were a badge only serves to make them more dangerous.

Keep in mind, no matter your definition of freedom and democracy, the police officer holds a power unlike any other in the US. A president may order a war, but has to be funded by Congress. A judge may impose a sentence, but relies on others to effect it. A police officer, and a police officer alone, can take your life away, either through incarceration or literally. No other in our government possess such far reaching and immediately devastating power.

Now, as to the the criminal mindset of officers. It's an old line, from time immemorial, "How often can you confront evil before the evil taints you?"

To be honest, I would rather have a cop that was a "bad" kid, got popped for a missy or two, and "straightened out" than a straight laced "Straight Edger". One, at least, knows of which he speaks.

To your assertion of a changing credo, I agree 100%! It seems the role of police has become more about threat and revenge than about helping communities. One of the best lectures I ever audited was by a police chief of a tiny little podunk town no one has ever heard of, discussing community oriented policing.

His talk focused on what he called STP - Solve the Problem. He went on to make the point that, in many cases, the best resolution to a law enforcement problem was often not an arrest. In many cases, the problem can be solved by community intervention, without leaving an aspiring/current community member with a criminal record. He was a huge advocate of parents and neighbors. As he said "You're only there for a few hours at most, these people live it every minute - How is it you think you know their community better than they do?"

He also pointed out that often, a call to a juveniles parents can be much more devastating, punishment-wise, than a trip to Juvenile Hall. Why? Because Juvie can only keep them a matter of time, the parents are always there.

But the point was that he was trying, through his departments responsibility, to solve the problems the community was having. If that meant an arrest, then so be it. But he encouraged his officers to try a different approach, if it would potentially be more effective. He wasn't worried about his arrest record, he was worried about his community.

And, surprise surprise, his county, despite being woefully out-funded and over-staffed, maintained an unprecedented approval rate. It was ridiculously high, in the 80s for general public, but over 90% IN THE COUNTY JAIL. Simply, the guys who were there knew they'd done wrong, and knew he he was right to lock them up.

It is a shame to see that attitude in the minority of LEO :badday:

I do not argue with the perception of cops being racist. In fact, it is actually healthy for a cop to be somewhat of a snap decision maker. However, despite the obvious few, I feel that the inherent racism we perceive from police officer to be no more than an extension of the racist and biased laws they enforce.

If they enforce it, they're racist pigs. If they don't, they're hypocrites, enforcing only the laws they see fit.

The worst case is when one of the bad few rises to a position of power in a department, imho.

Edit: damn fast posters, these other posts weren't here when I drafted this response :D I'll address them after I've read them well.
 

High Country

Give me a Kenworth truck, an 18 speed box and I'll
Veteran
I must admit I have never had any problems with cops, police, pigs, whatever you want to call them. Those I have known in the past generally engage in the same practice we do. "SOW THE SEED GROW THE WEED". THANKS KOG
 

NiteTiger

Tiger, Tiger, burning bright...
Veteran
FreeMan - Exactly! Too many have hidden behind the banner of "following orders"! Nuremburg revealed that we as a human society are no longer prepared to accept that answer. Each individual must be held accountable for their personal actions. But that also means we cannot judge the group by the actions of one.

OTG - I've had similar experiences, and as I said, those young bucks gotta show their stuff. Not excusable, but from any human animal perspective, understandable at the least.

To both - one of the best cops I know was fired and blacklisted for refusing to press charges that weren't deserved. I would be proud to stand with him at any time, because he is a good human who truly cares, not some automaton.
 

Kalicokitty

The cat that loves cannabis
Veteran
The police department as a whole needs to re examine how they operate, because it's a little heavy handed for my tastes.
Some situations do call for a large "shock and awe" show of force, but the vast majority do not, most recently the raid of the home where the two dogs were shot to death in front of the family(child too) for what turned out to be a tiny amount of weed and a bong, these people are now traumtized for life, especially the kid, how would you explain that to your child? Would you tell them how most cops really "rock"? Do you think the kid would care after seeing his beloved pet shot to death in front of him? Kids lucky he didn't catch a stray round and end up dead himself.
I'm sick of doors being kicked in, I'm sick of regular people being tazered to death, I'm sick of priests who panic and reverse out of a parking lot being shot to death. I'm sick of the double standard police have when it comes to themselves and following the law as oppossed to regular citizens.
So it not an individual, it's the whole system thats fucked up and allows them to operate the way they do now with little to no accountability when they abuse their power, which is everyday.
 

NiteTiger

Tiger, Tiger, burning bright...
Veteran
The police department as a whole needs to re examine how they operate, because it's a little heavy handed for my tastes.
Some situations do call for a large "shock and awe" show of force, but the vast majority do not, most recently the raid of the home where the two dogs were shot to death in front of the family(child too) for what turned out to be a tiny amount of weed and a bong, these people are now traumtized for life, especially the kid, how would you explain that to your child? Would you tell them how most cops really "rock"? Do you think the kid would care after seeing his beloved pet shot to death in front of him? Kids lucky he didn't catch a stray round and end up dead himself.
I'm sick of doors being kicked in, I'm sick of regular people being tazered to death, I'm sick of priests who panic and reverse out of a parking lot being shot to death. I'm sick of the double standard police have when it comes to themselves and following the law as oppossed to regular citizens.
So it not an individual, it's the whole system thats fucked up and allows them to operate the way they do now with little to no accountability when they abuse their power, which is everyday.

Agreed. Hate what the system has become, not the gears in the wheels.
 
S

sparkjumper

Cops are just as cool as can be,so long as you never ever forget it is their job to put YOU in a cage.
 

Mr. Bongjangles

Head Brewer
ICMag Donor
Veteran
LOL, pull that cop's dick out of your mouth.

We'll see who is writing paragraphs of praise when they knock down your door and shoot your dog over some bullshit.

You act like the power-tripping cop is the exception, but then go on to say you believe that older cops do it less often? Man, how many old cops are there working the street? It is like, 90% young dudes who have minimal training and minimal intelligence. And they act like it, pulling one newsworthy abuse of power after another.

That shit doesn't happen in say, the Netherlands, where becoming a cop isn't some John Wayne fantasy... Every time I visit, I see the police behaving in ways that are just shocking to me coming from the USA. Mediating conflicts instead of beating both participants and throwing them in the back of a squad car, etc. They are just not on the same power trip.

Your cop friend who refused to press the flawed charges is the exception, not the rule. Nothing you've presented suggests otherwise, and your case for it being the other way around is entirely rhetorical. The fact that he was terminated and blacklisted for not doing it is pretty strong evidence that the corruption you insist is rare is actually the standard order of business.

So yeah, cops suck.
 

A1M-9SW

Member
well I had just 1 episode of a bad cop.. they are generally OK to me.. you can always find those real bad cops...
 

armedoldhippy

Well-known member
Veteran
police around here normally don't make arrests for simple possession unless you have done something stupid to begin with- IE, run a red light, fall asleep at McD's drive-thru window, etc. buddy got caught by mall security burning one in his car before going shopping. local police arrived & told him "mr."smith", i don't have time to be hauling 33 year old pot smokers downtown..." my buddy blurted out "yeah? well, I didn't fucking CALL you..." cop laughed & left! pissed the rent-a-cop off, LOL! :jump:
 

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