is there an issue ...like with soil and nats when using coco? the only issue I have with dirt is the fact I always see some kind of predators like the soil nats or mites etc and lik eto stay away from the chems to kill with....with that tell me please how to rid the nats..when using hydro i never have these issues=== go figure
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know what im gonna do with mine now since they are pretty much worthless to use with tomatoes !!!!!!!!!
C
chefro420
G
Guest 88950
DIATOMACEOUS EARTH and mix it into your medium and it will take care of them. i use coco and mix alot of DE into it w/o measuring and only good results.
i use the DE that's more a powder / small granules.
beneficial insects like ladybugs too.
i use the DE that's more a powder / small granules.
beneficial insects like ladybugs too.
Donald Trump
Member
yes you will most likely see more gnats in coco compared to soil. I recommend the yellow sticky cards all over the room lol... and a 2 inch top dressing of perlite, covering the coco.
also try not to leave standing water in the trays or grow area.
Donald Trump
Member
hey chefro what strain is that in the ss #4 on post 158
C
chefro420
Donald Trump
Member
what is the name of the chunky strain man?
looks like some sour D or somethin..
looks like some sour D or somethin..
heshani1999
New member
I haven't try coco before looking forward to do it.I hope it will work great to my growth as well.
I used coco once and even though I made a lot of mistakes and grew spindly airy buds with it, I could easily see the potential. The only thing I did right it seems was rinse it. But all I used was pure un-pH'd water... Oh well, you live, you learn. Next cycle I'm going hydro but I haven't picked a medium yet. I was thinking rockwool but now that I have this info I might go back to coco. I'm a soil grow at heart, and coco is like the best of both world. I thought you coud add bennies to coco but I wasn't sure so thanks. Hoe often do you have to innoculate the coco with bacteria?
I'm glad you wrote this bro, I was starting to think I'm a fool for watering my ss4 every day now that they've gotten more established in soil, it could also be because I have them in smaller pots that they dry out faster. My mix is sunshine mix4 with 80% perlite, My plants didn't start taking off till I started to water it like it was coco(daily, and I don't let it dry out anymore), shortly after that my roots filled in, I'm treating my media like it's coco, is there n e thing wrong with this? am I not recieving the oxygenation with my ss4?
i have also been using the SSM#4 and i did notice that i have all 5 gallon smart pots and a few 2 or 3 gallon smart pots and i always need to water the smaller pots daily almost ...
the 5 gallon ones need to be watered about every other day ...
Is it better to allow the soil to dry out a bit or stay a lttle moist b4 watering ...
Like if i was to water my 5 gallon pots daily i dont think that they would dry out all the way to the bottom of the pot ...
the 5 gallon ones need to be watered about every other day ...
Is it better to allow the soil to dry out a bit or stay a lttle moist b4 watering ...
Like if i was to water my 5 gallon pots daily i dont think that they would dry out all the way to the bottom of the pot ...
IwannatokeNbone
Member
there is something magical that happens in coco when a plant is fed to its max, it just out grows soil by a long shot.
dizzlekush
Member
im currently running an experiment testing coco and sunshine mix side by side.. im having 20 plant in a 70% coco/ 30% perlite mix, 20 plants in Sunshine Mix 4, and 20 plants in a 50/50 mix of the two, i.e. 50% sunshine mix/ 35% coco/ 15% added perlite.
the strain i will be doing the test with is Afgoo. the coir is from Black Gold and the perlite is Pahroc Giant size 3. i mixed in an even amount of PHC Biopak with all 3 mixes. i will NOT be posting pictures. i will be looking at root growth as well as the obvious top growth and overall health/yield of the plants. the girls were just transplanted 12 hours ago and watered with Roots Excelurator and Subculture B. in my previous grows with a supplemented coco mix called Basement Mix i could have roots shooting out of the bottom of 1 gallon pots by day 5 with this same treatment.
the strain i will be doing the test with is Afgoo. the coir is from Black Gold and the perlite is Pahroc Giant size 3. i mixed in an even amount of PHC Biopak with all 3 mixes. i will NOT be posting pictures. i will be looking at root growth as well as the obvious top growth and overall health/yield of the plants. the girls were just transplanted 12 hours ago and watered with Roots Excelurator and Subculture B. in my previous grows with a supplemented coco mix called Basement Mix i could have roots shooting out of the bottom of 1 gallon pots by day 5 with this same treatment.
dizzlekush
Member
well its been a week and the results are already in. in a comparison of the coco/perlite vs sunshine mix #4, the sunshine mix completely dominated in all aspects.
the plants grown in pure sunshine mix are the happiest. they are at least twice their original size, they are showing zero signs of discoloration or unhappy growth. roots are showing out the bottom of at least half the 1 gallon pots.
the plants grown in 50/50 are looking rather healthy in color although there is some slight "leaf burn" (either Ca deficiency or salt in coco). they are slightly behind the pure sunshine plants in growth although they are growing at a good rate. there is the same amount of roots showing on the bottom of the pots as the pure sunshine. some slight leaf droop is evident.
the plants grown in the 70% coco/30% perlite are not happy. growth rates never really picked up like the sunshine mixes. leaf burn is evident, along with leaf droop. yellowing in all new growth is present. no roots have shown on the bottom of the pots yet.
after the drastic differences in growth after only 7 days i have decided to not continue with the test. when the plants are transplanted, all plants will be transplanted into sunshine mix #4.
after being a coco grower since the start, im now instantly obsessed with peat. the side by side differences is drastic. i suggest any coco growers to do the same as i have to see how much they are limiting their garden.
the plants grown in pure sunshine mix are the happiest. they are at least twice their original size, they are showing zero signs of discoloration or unhappy growth. roots are showing out the bottom of at least half the 1 gallon pots.
the plants grown in 50/50 are looking rather healthy in color although there is some slight "leaf burn" (either Ca deficiency or salt in coco). they are slightly behind the pure sunshine plants in growth although they are growing at a good rate. there is the same amount of roots showing on the bottom of the pots as the pure sunshine. some slight leaf droop is evident.
the plants grown in the 70% coco/30% perlite are not happy. growth rates never really picked up like the sunshine mixes. leaf burn is evident, along with leaf droop. yellowing in all new growth is present. no roots have shown on the bottom of the pots yet.
after the drastic differences in growth after only 7 days i have decided to not continue with the test. when the plants are transplanted, all plants will be transplanted into sunshine mix #4.
after being a coco grower since the start, im now instantly obsessed with peat. the side by side differences is drastic. i suggest any coco growers to do the same as i have to see how much they are limiting their garden.
Y
YosemiteSam
dizzlekush...do you happen to know the alkalinity of the water you are using?
It seems to me that is the most important consideration in coco vs a peat based media. We tend to forget it is not really the pH of our fertigation water that really matters...it is the pH of the media. Peat starts with a much lower pH than coco and resists changes to pH caused by higher alkalinity water. On the other hand if you have low alkalinity water or RO water you are probably going to be happier with coco.
It also depends on the source of N you choose. High NH4 or NH2 % in the total nitrogen will tend to lower media pH over time...or balance high alkalinity water.
Anyways...I think there is a lot more at play here than we tend to think. Which works best for anyone is going to depend on their water source and selection of nutes.
For the record I have low alkalinity water and use nutes with very low NH4 content. Coco works best for me in those situations. Although, if one were to play around with the type and amount of lime on used with peat I am sure they could match my coco results with peat.
Also for the record I never water to runoff, use big pots as soon as possible (cause it builds a much wider plant from the base up...check out the large plants outdoor thread before you go constantly potting up), would never consider using drip clean. It comes down to what you input...wanna use high N ppm then yes you will need runoff...but use the correct amount and you are fine.
http://www.greenhousegrower.com/magazine/?storyid=96
http://www.greenhousegrower.com/magazine/?storyid=560
anyways...sorry about how long the post is...but it is a complicated subject.
It seems to me that is the most important consideration in coco vs a peat based media. We tend to forget it is not really the pH of our fertigation water that really matters...it is the pH of the media. Peat starts with a much lower pH than coco and resists changes to pH caused by higher alkalinity water. On the other hand if you have low alkalinity water or RO water you are probably going to be happier with coco.
It also depends on the source of N you choose. High NH4 or NH2 % in the total nitrogen will tend to lower media pH over time...or balance high alkalinity water.
Anyways...I think there is a lot more at play here than we tend to think. Which works best for anyone is going to depend on their water source and selection of nutes.
For the record I have low alkalinity water and use nutes with very low NH4 content. Coco works best for me in those situations. Although, if one were to play around with the type and amount of lime on used with peat I am sure they could match my coco results with peat.
Also for the record I never water to runoff, use big pots as soon as possible (cause it builds a much wider plant from the base up...check out the large plants outdoor thread before you go constantly potting up), would never consider using drip clean. It comes down to what you input...wanna use high N ppm then yes you will need runoff...but use the correct amount and you are fine.
http://www.greenhousegrower.com/magazine/?storyid=96
http://www.greenhousegrower.com/magazine/?storyid=560
anyways...sorry about how long the post is...but it is a complicated subject.
dizzlekush
Member
@YosemiteSam everything you say makes sense but once you hear the parameters of my test so far you might think the results came from different causes.
the plants are currently 8 days old in 1 gallon pots. each medium was mixed with PHC Boipak (humic acid, seaweed, silica, bacteria, molasses, sugar) and the plants were watered with Subculture B and Roots Excelurator after transplant and the pots haven't dried yet. basically all the plants were DRENCHED in bacteria. i find this makes for a very happy transplanting.
so other than possible microbial dieoff (bacteria are mainly N), the plants have been given no external source of N, my waters pH was adjusted to 6.5 (i like 5.8-6.2 but the closer to 7 the better for bacteria inoculation). i did use tap water, my ppms usually run around 200, but i did make sure to purge all chlorine and monochloramine.
i did NOT "pre flush" the coco or "pre treat" it in any way.
the plants are currently 8 days old in 1 gallon pots. each medium was mixed with PHC Boipak (humic acid, seaweed, silica, bacteria, molasses, sugar) and the plants were watered with Subculture B and Roots Excelurator after transplant and the pots haven't dried yet. basically all the plants were DRENCHED in bacteria. i find this makes for a very happy transplanting.
so other than possible microbial dieoff (bacteria are mainly N), the plants have been given no external source of N, my waters pH was adjusted to 6.5 (i like 5.8-6.2 but the closer to 7 the better for bacteria inoculation). i did use tap water, my ppms usually run around 200, but i did make sure to purge all chlorine and monochloramine.
i did NOT "pre flush" the coco or "pre treat" it in any way.
dizzlekush
Member
God im an idiot. there is a variable in this test i was unaware of previously. The Sunshine Mix #4 is supplemented with small amounts micro and macro nutrients. i thought it was only given a wetting agent. it could be simple nutrient deficiency that is causing the yellowing and difference in growth instead of varying qualities of soilless medium. can i get a facepalm? but that wouln't account for the leaf burn (unless the Ca deficiency is the most significant nutrient deficiency).
Y
YosemiteSam
So that eliminates source of N.
Still curious about the alkalinity of your water. To totally eliminate alkalinity you would have to drop your pH to 4.5...not recommending that, just saying. I would guess (without actually knowing) your alkalinity is probably over 120 ppm on a CaCO3 scale. I have been wrong before though.
But...true confession time. Outdoors I have a few plants, one is in straight coco (no perlite even) and is being fed my normal nutes, one is in 50% coco, 25% coarse perlite and 25% humus (combo of local thermal compost and ewc) and the others are in Tom Hill's mix...the Black Gold peat based potting soil mix, some extra perlite, chicken shit, bone meal and gypsum (based on my high pH but low alkalinity water).
It remains to be seen which will yield best...but brix readings (refractometer) show the organic/peat mix to be about a full point higher....which I associate with healthier plants.
So...given your results and what I see outdoors I will definitely give SS4 a try vs my usual indoor coco. Or just make my own mix of probably Alaska Peat (high microbe content according to microbeman), perlite and local compost and ewc.
I like to add mychorrziae (sp possibly totally wrong) myself. I will also take a look at the product you mentioned as it looks interesting.
And again...not saying I think one is inherently better than the other. Just saying I think a few other things come into play that will determine which is best for an individual.
And I do respect your opinion...so hopefully I do not seem defensive or argumentative at this point.
The two articles I posted are definitely worth a read as is the book Understanding pH in Container Grows (or something close to that) also by Bill Argo.
edit...also for the record, in coco I am feeding my veg formula at 75-100 ppm N from a hair before my clones even really root. I find that if you get em started immediately (rather than letting them yellow to indicate when to start feeding them) they get off to a much better start...and then keeping them healthy rather than trying to catch up is much easier. I am also giving seeds a weak nute from the get go on seed starts and by the second set of true leaves giving them that 75-100 ppm N mix for the same reasons.
Get em started right and quick and the remainder of the grow goes so much easier than when you are trying to play catch up...at least that has been my experience.
again with the edit...also in coco if your media pH is as high as 6.5 you are severely limiting the availability of micros and favoring Ca over Mg. I try to hold the actual media pH (SME method) to 6...and would rather see it as low as 5.5 compared to 6.5.
My outdoor peat plants have snuck up to 6.5 or so without it seeming to hurt a thing...although next year I will add a bit of NH4, NH2 to the mix to try to keep it down to 6.
Still curious about the alkalinity of your water. To totally eliminate alkalinity you would have to drop your pH to 4.5...not recommending that, just saying. I would guess (without actually knowing) your alkalinity is probably over 120 ppm on a CaCO3 scale. I have been wrong before though.
But...true confession time. Outdoors I have a few plants, one is in straight coco (no perlite even) and is being fed my normal nutes, one is in 50% coco, 25% coarse perlite and 25% humus (combo of local thermal compost and ewc) and the others are in Tom Hill's mix...the Black Gold peat based potting soil mix, some extra perlite, chicken shit, bone meal and gypsum (based on my high pH but low alkalinity water).
It remains to be seen which will yield best...but brix readings (refractometer) show the organic/peat mix to be about a full point higher....which I associate with healthier plants.
So...given your results and what I see outdoors I will definitely give SS4 a try vs my usual indoor coco. Or just make my own mix of probably Alaska Peat (high microbe content according to microbeman), perlite and local compost and ewc.
I like to add mychorrziae (sp possibly totally wrong) myself. I will also take a look at the product you mentioned as it looks interesting.
And again...not saying I think one is inherently better than the other. Just saying I think a few other things come into play that will determine which is best for an individual.
And I do respect your opinion...so hopefully I do not seem defensive or argumentative at this point.
The two articles I posted are definitely worth a read as is the book Understanding pH in Container Grows (or something close to that) also by Bill Argo.
edit...also for the record, in coco I am feeding my veg formula at 75-100 ppm N from a hair before my clones even really root. I find that if you get em started immediately (rather than letting them yellow to indicate when to start feeding them) they get off to a much better start...and then keeping them healthy rather than trying to catch up is much easier. I am also giving seeds a weak nute from the get go on seed starts and by the second set of true leaves giving them that 75-100 ppm N mix for the same reasons.
Get em started right and quick and the remainder of the grow goes so much easier than when you are trying to play catch up...at least that has been my experience.
again with the edit...also in coco if your media pH is as high as 6.5 you are severely limiting the availability of micros and favoring Ca over Mg. I try to hold the actual media pH (SME method) to 6...and would rather see it as low as 5.5 compared to 6.5.
My outdoor peat plants have snuck up to 6.5 or so without it seeming to hurt a thing...although next year I will add a bit of NH4, NH2 to the mix to try to keep it down to 6.
