CMH vs LED vs HPS

[zachrockbadenof]

...if you have enough water.

true true... i 4got about water - is the harvest time from the day going 12/12 (or11/13), or from the 1st bud formation.... if i ask 2 people , i get 3 answers...

 

[exoticrobotic]

I will rerun it under CMH but it wont be much of a comparison as the plants will be more mature and not seeded the next time.

I'm looking forward to seeing the resin mature more.

In my experience, LEDs seem to decide categorically when the plant is finished. That's it, no more growth after that.

CMH keeps on maturing the plant and the resins allowing you a greater window of variability with the high.

 

[snakedope]

I love all MH/CMH bulbs for flowering and for veg also, the only thing I find lacking in them is the ppfd numbers they produce...
1/3 less light overall for the same watt as hps
But the end product always looks spectacular (trichome and resin wise) but also colors and nicer leaves somewhat
I'm waiting to find the right clone to dump my yield thoughts and flower it under a 4K or a nice 4200K CMH

 

[kro-magnon]

I will rerun it under CMH but it wont be much of a comparison as the plants will be more mature and not seeded the next time.

I'm looking forward to seeing the resin mature more.

In my experience, LEDs seem to decide categorically when the plant is finished. That's it, no more growth after that.

CMH keeps on maturing the plant and the resins allowing you a greater window of variability with the high.

Seeded plants won't make the best smoke whatever the set-up used to grow them;

 

[Crooked8]

I love all MH/CMH bulbs for flowering and for veg also, the only thing I find lacking in them is the ppfd numbers they produce...
1/3 less light overall for the same watt as hps
But the end product always looks spectacular (trichome and resin wise) but also colors and nicer leaves somewhat
I'm waiting to find the right clone to dump my yield thoughts and flower it under a 4K or a nice 4200K CMH

Really? With sun system 630s we were hitting nearly equal ppfd and in some cases higher ppfd than de hps. Phillips 315s 3100k. Definitely not lower and this was with 630s(2 315w bulbs) over 1000w hitting the same ppfd. This is the meter we use for reference….

PQ-510 Package: microCache and Full-spectrum Quantum with 2 meter cable

The PQ-510 package includes both an SQ-500-SS Full-spectrum Quantum sensor with a 2 m cable and microCache Bluetooth micro-logger. When paired, these two devices are a powerful tool for monitoring photosynthetically active radiation with research-grade accuracy for optimal plant growth.

www.apogeeinstruments.com

 

[igrowone]

Seeded plants won't make the best smoke whatever the set-up used to grow them;

if only you could try some seeded from the 60s/70s
it's amazing how good seeded can be
selection was done on seeded weed and some were home runs

 

[snakedope]

if only you could try some seeded from the 60s/70s
it's amazing how good seeded can be
selection was done on seeded weed and some were home runs

I 2nd that statement, my old 06 big buddah cheese was seeded, not too much, maybe 40-50 seeds total from 3 plants, but it was and still (if I had it haha) killer dope, wayyyy better then what 95% are smoking today, that was with chinese 400 hps

Really? With sun system 630s we were hitting nearly equal ppfd and in some cases higher ppfd than de hps. Phillips 315s 3100k. Definitely not lower and this was with 630s(2 315w bulbs) over 1000w hitting the same ppfd. This is the meter we use for reference….

PQ-510 Package: microCache and Full-spectrum Quantum with 2 meter cable

The PQ-510 package includes both an SQ-500-SS Full-spectrum Quantum sensor with a 2 m cable and microCache Bluetooth micro-logger. When paired, these two devices are a powerful tool for monitoring photosynthetically active radiation with research-grade accuracy for optimal plant growth.

www.apogeeinstruments.com

I didn't mean ppfd maps, I meant total light output, I hate all these terms, that's why I stick with lm (total source intensity or par whatever you want) and ppfd as space light density
A 600w hps has something like 90k lm, I don't think CMH or MH at the same watt will give you that number, maybe 70k, which is not bad for a MH lamp when you consider it's other advantages.

 

[Jaysways]

...and at the same time, this guys does exactly that, sharing nothing but his pure opinion without anything to back it up.


Keep it going guys, this comedy gold.

To be honest dude, it is just purely my opinion because the guys on here don’t seem to take the data into consideration. So what more data can you give from an led grower. I could bring scientific data all day that is available on the internet. But the cig and hps growers trump that with their opinion.

I like to see pics guys, I like data and I love marijuana, because in this confused social media driven world , at least we can have some confidence in science.

LED for the win!

Smoking this yesterday , this is why I am only replying now

 

[Jaysways]

Looks amazing no doubt, I held many like this in my hand buddy you can be sure, all were short lived smoke, in all parameters.
Finding a good led bud almost seems like an impossible mission to me to be honest, I think it will take 3-5 years until we start to see a change, in commerical or hobbiest that look up to commerical ops like they are god, the growers won't change nothing, as they didn't in the past 50 years, but the tech will catch up eventually, although I think not, but that's for another thread.

Don't take it personal like everybody do, I just don't like the end product that LEDs make, but I absolutely love the look of your flowers, viva la small difference

I personally think your doing a great job

I wish you could try my stuff dude, I would have a hard time believing you saying it’s no good if you sat and had a smoke with me

 

[exoticrobotic]

Have you grown with CMH and HPS too @Jaysways.

That bud looks nice.

 

[exoticrobotic]

at least we can have some confidence in science.

Not really.

Cannabis science is tainted with commercial interests. There is scant if any impartial research.

With cannabis, Bro science/anectdotal evidence is often more reliable.

 

[420empire]

Dunno if it was in this thread or the led bud quality one. But one of you guys posted a Really nice pdf paper on a experiment on the difference on HPS and different LED ratio lights. What I could reduce it to is that HPS makes more THC pr. Plant mass total then the others. However blue LED's made a little more THC and more terpenes but yielded less total plantmass. If that makes sense. So maybe a nice HPS rig with added deep blue LED could be the way to go. Could be nice if one u guys could elaborate more on the paper . Taken all this in consideration I have no doubt u can make great herb with LED. If u listen to Bugsbee, Plants dont care of it's LED or HPS. Is all about the photons being blasted at the plants. Would love to see papers on plasma and CMH light, these are not taken to much in consideration..unfortunetly.

 

[Jaysways]

Not really.

Cannabis science is tainted with commercial interests. There is scant if any impartial research.

With cannabis, Bro science/anectdotal evidence is often more reliable.

Yeah true but I’m referring more to science behind LEDs. I know manufacturers numbers can be a lil up there but there is reliable sources to go to like bungee, coco for cannabis light reviews and migro also does honest data.

 

[Jaysways]

Not really.

Cannabis science is tainted with commercial interests. There is scant if any impartial research.

With cannabis, Bro science/anectdotal evidence is often more reliable.

I try to go with my own experience to be honest. Half the advice I have taken from online from anywhere I take with a pinch of salt.

I’ve grown with hps mate but not with cmh. I would definitely try cmh but I’m quite restricted height wise and need my room to run cold so not a viable option for me atm.

All I care about is the end quality, that’s it , I’d grow under anything if that’s my only option

 

[exoticrobotic]

If u listen to Bugsbee, Plants dont care of it's LED or HPS.

The plants may not care but who knows what's going on under the hood wrt different synthesis pathways and their interactions.

I've definetely seen a not so subtle difference using led vs cmh.

cmh product has always been more pyschoactive. I smoke less of cmh bud otherwise its possible i can have a whitey

 

[exoticrobotic]

I’ve grown with hps mate but not with cmh. I would definitely try cmh but I’m quite restricted height wise and need my room to run cold so not a viable option for me atm.

Yes. Leds are good if you have height restrictions, especially as they come in flat units vs the bulky CMH reflectors.

I was often dealing with 90c at canopy level with CMH in the height of summer but with a little training and air blowing between the lights and the canopy the plants loved it.

 

[snakedope]

Dunno if it was in this thread or the led bud quality one. But one of you guys posted a Really nice pdf paper on a experiment on the difference on HPS and different LED ratio lights. What I could reduce it to is that HPS makes more THC pr. Plant mass total then the others. However blue LED's made a little more THC and more terpenes but yielded less total plantmass. If that makes sense. So maybe a nice HPS rig with added deep blue LED could be the way to go.

I did it once, I put 2 small QBs next to a 600 hps, I didn't see any big difference but It was a killer grow yield wise, got 800g from a 90x90cm tent
The quality was nice too, not dank like the old times, but I relate that to low grade genetics I was using, not the light setup.

Could be nice if one u guys could elaborate more on the paper . Taken all this in consideration I have no doubt u can make great herb with LED. If u listen to Bugsbee, Plants dont care of it's LED or HPS. Is all about the photons being blasted at the plants.

When plants are growing they don't care from where the photons are coming, the more the better and the more types of wavelengths is even better, the development of resin and trichomes is a process that takes a lot from the plant, so LEDs as far as I seen will support the building blocks of resin production because it grows the plant very good with a lot of light in the space, is it enough ?
Do resin and trichomes have another issue we are missing ? LEDs grew the plant, but maybe to get to full size trichome heads something else is needed, something that LEDs don't have right now
Maybe intensity, maybe different spectrums, who knows
I tend not to take advice from prof at University, for the sole reason they will say anything for the right amount of money.

Would love to see papers on plasma and CMH light, these are not taken to much in consideration..unfortunetly.

Plasma is the future simply because our sun and moon are plasma aswell, and I really think humans will eventually realize god is smarter then all of them.

 

[snakedope]

How many different growers led bud have you smoked? Exactly which leds were used? Was it grown in soil or hydro? Was the strain you smoked a clone you have also sampled grown better? I'm curious about your exact comparison. Is there a particular clone you have sampled in a true side by side with all the other variables kept identical?

I wanted to answer this but I forgot
So here it goes,
I think I smoked more then a 100 strains grown under LEDs, from maybe 20-25 different growers.
Which LEDs, most HLG QBs, Mars Hydro, Fluence, and other various samsung diodes etc
Grown in hydro mostly, but also soil, not much though.
10 or more of the strains are clones that growers here run for more then 10 years easy, 3 years ago you couldn't handle those clones, PK or Jungle Dream, they were just too killer, people would stay away and smoke the light stuff in fear of being knocked the fuck out hahaha
Today they still have those clones, but the difference is earth and heaven in quality, resin, smell, taste etc
I used to smoke 15-20 grams of it a month, now you smoke it all day without anything happening.
My grinder was stuck every 2-3 flowers and needed a clean, I used to scrap the leftover resin from the grinder when I ran out of bud,
Today, after more then 1kg easy that went through my grinder in the last 2-3 years since quality became so low, there is no resin or oil left in the grinder, never stuck, hilarious.

The most true side by side clone I smoked was the PK, It was outdoor grown for many years, it was killer Bud that you needed to think twice about when your smoking it cuz it fucked up your day totally
They still grow it to this day, but they have changed to LEDs, from there all went downhill.

 

[exoticrobotic]

Unfortunately that is pretty much my experience too.

Lucky i'm not into conspiracy theories or i might start thinking leds are being weaponised by China to turn our beloved herb from sacred medicine to fast food junk.

That's certainly how it feels from a medical use perspective.

 

[zachrockbadenof]

if only you could try some seeded from the 60s/70s
it's amazing how good seeded can be
selection was done on seeded weed and some were home runs

amen... there was some fire in the late 60's/early 70's... n 99.9pct of it was seeded...and grown under the big led/cmh/hps in the sky...

i was n still of the opinion, i have no scientific data to back it up that weed being seeded, n grown outdoors has something that is lacking in indoor grows...