couchlockd
Active member
That is not dimming.
That's setting a dial a watt or select a way ballast to a different setting and using a appropriate bulb at full power.
-
Happy Birthday ICMag! Been 20 years since Gypsy Nirvana created the forum! We are celebrating with a 4/20 Giveaway and by launching a new Patreon tier called "420club". You can read more here.
-
Important notice: ICMag's T.O.U. has been updated. Please review it here. For your convenience, it is also available in the main forum menu, under 'Quick Links"!
CMH vs Doble ended vs Single endend
- Thread starter Semaccio
- Start date
That is not dimming.
That's setting a dial a watt or select a way ballast to a different setting and using a appropriate bulb at full power.
WOW
1. You got some problems friend
what a lunatic!2. Any time, any day, I'll fuck you up all day bro! ROFL meet me in public... No.. No you wouldn't, I'd be waiting for you forever at that designated spot and time. lol. People like you that talk nonsense are hilarious.
You seem like you've lost your way. So filled with vinegar, let me ask, has this all lost it's fun for you? It seems like you are just not enjoying yourself. You really need to lighten up. Or if you really want to get tuned up, you know, I can help you with that too
ROFL punk. I'm more of a giant kitty cat meow.
Yep I'm not an engineer but I know a bit about these different lights, and also have seen many many differing rooms with results from such lights. So, yeah, I am in a position to talk about how these lights work, not as much on a technical level, but in terms of real life application and efficacy.
I have peers who as well know more, and have have the ability to answer anything I want, and I have access to testing equipment as well when it comes to all these.
I love how you have to change up the argument now... Is a 315 cmh going to out compete a higher end brand name bulb like a 600 watt hortilux blue...
Well, MAYBE. I actually agreed that overall yield a hortilux blue will, or should even, out yield the 315, but WHATEVER fuck me right for agreeing with you!
Fine fuck you I'll just disagree with you now then and say on no basis whatsoever that you are just plain wrong and, especially considering the results other people are getting that prove you wrong. Jerk
That being said, I'll know shortly from some really good tests. As it stands the yield on that test is looking well close to a 600 watt equivalent and I believe this is without additional CO2 but never count the chicks before that kitten lays eggs.
For some with the 315 now it seems they are doing just that, as compared to other bulbs. I will also find out personally... For your person, well no, you fucked up somewhere probably, what can we all say, you still got a pretty good yield off of it given your situation is likely grower error or something else
Who cares what you paid.. What does that have to do with anythiing. What you got is either not performing as it should, or you are not performing as you should. I'm still going with the latter, since my X ray scans present to me that you are a person with a vile attitude looking to attack attack attack everything (online), and you have no hilarious bones. Not even a good looking bone, they are all mangled and gnarled. This bone here, you want to pick. Forget about giving any dogs your bones, that'd make em sick as dogs. And if you pop a boner, careful you might break it!
Last edited:
couchlockd
Active member
WOW
1. You got some problems friend
2. Any time, any day, I'll fuck you up all day bro! ROFL meet me in public... No.. No you wouldn't, I'd be waiting for you forever at that designated spot and time. lol. People like you that talk nonsense are hilarious.
You seem like you've lost your way. So filled with vinegar, let me ask, has this all lost it's fun for you? It seems like you are just not enjoying yourself. You really need to lighten up. Or if you really want to get tuned up, you know, I can help you with that too
ROFL punk. I'm more of a giant kitty cat meow.
Yep I'm not an engineer but I know a bit about these different lights, and also have seen many many differing rooms with results from such lights. So, yeah, I am in a position to talk about how these lights work, not as much on a technical level, but in terms of real life application and efficacy.
I have peers who as well know more, and have have the ability to answer anything I want, and I have access to testing equipment as well when it comes to all these.
I love how you have to change up the argument now... Is a 315 cmh going to out compete a higher end brand name bulb like a 600 watt hortilux blue...
Well, MAYBE. I actually agreed that overall yield a hortilux blue will, or should even, out yield the 315, but WHATEVER fuck me right for agreeing with you!
Fine fuck you I'll just disagree with you now then and say on no basis whatsoever that you are just plain wrong and, especially considering the results other people are getting that prove you wrong. Jerk
That being said, I'll know shortly from some really good tests. As it stands the yield on that test is looking well close to a 600 watt equivalent and I believe this is without additional CO2 but never count the chicks before that kitten lays eggs.
For some with the 315 now it seems they are doing just that, as compared to other bulbs. I will also find out personally... For your person, well no, you fucked up somewhere probably, what can we all say, you still got a pretty good yield off of it given your situation is likely grower error or something else
Who cares what you paid.. What does that have to do with anythiing. What you got is either not performing as it should, or you are not performing as you should. I'm still going with the latter, since my X ray scans present to me that you are a person with a vile attitude looking to attack attack attack everything (online), and you have no hilarious bones. Not even a good looking bone, they are all mangled and gnarled. This bone here, you want to pick. Forget about giving any dogs your bones, that'd make em sick as dogs. And if you pop a boner, careful you might break it!
Well I got a phantom 315 going to be picked up today, we will see.
Last edited:
couchlockd
Active member
And don't give me that I'm doing something wrong I've been doing this since 2003 I didn't all the sudden forget what I'm fucking doing
Last edited:
I did not flag the attack post 'cause it serves as fair warning to any threads he may appear in, I agree with the "wow" part but direct back at him.
I personally am a fan of the Ceramic arc tube Metal Halide HID bulbs. The HPS bulbs were discontinued in my garden after a year of side by side testing.
The difference in yields, on a scale, was twenty percent in favor of CMH with equal photon counts.
I brought in an HPS gardener who taught me totally different methods, plus we used equal watts instead of equal photons (HPS puts out half again as many photons as CMH for the same wattage). HPS photons are green, yellow, and orange, in that respective order. Even without blue and little deep red with the correct techniques the equal watts yielded matched weights. The CMH bud tested a whole percentage point higher in THC, not enough I could tell the difference at the pipe.
With growing techniques geared to the spectrum of light available 600 watts of HPS will out grow 315 watts of CMH by a lot. Treat the HPS the same as the CMH and it does become questionable.
By not making it personal I have tried it both ways deliberately and went with the one I liked. I also don't get pissy with folks that like coconut, although it makes me puke.
I personally am a fan of the Ceramic arc tube Metal Halide HID bulbs. The HPS bulbs were discontinued in my garden after a year of side by side testing.
The difference in yields, on a scale, was twenty percent in favor of CMH with equal photon counts.
I brought in an HPS gardener who taught me totally different methods, plus we used equal watts instead of equal photons (HPS puts out half again as many photons as CMH for the same wattage). HPS photons are green, yellow, and orange, in that respective order. Even without blue and little deep red with the correct techniques the equal watts yielded matched weights. The CMH bud tested a whole percentage point higher in THC, not enough I could tell the difference at the pipe.
With growing techniques geared to the spectrum of light available 600 watts of HPS will out grow 315 watts of CMH by a lot. Treat the HPS the same as the CMH and it does become questionable.
By not making it personal I have tried it both ways deliberately and went with the one I liked. I also don't get pissy with folks that like coconut, although it makes me puke.
You put the lime in the cocount and drink them both together.
I can vouch for Hammerhead . I have some of his buds here that were grown under cmh. It's fire. Very good smoke
I'm considering going to a 630
I can vouch for Hammerhead . I have some of his buds here that were grown under cmh. It's fire. Very good smoke
I'm considering going to a 630
Semaccio
Active member
Thank you everybody for the ansewr, I never image someone answer to my stupid doubt.
@Hammerhead
U are a professional grower and u grow with a lot of watt and different bulb so maybe is difficoult to do a comparison in a big space and with all this light no?
I have 5"x5" (more or less i have to buy a new tent) and 600/800w to use for grow and I can't do a wrong choice or spent without be sure is the really right way for me.
I like CHM I read a lot of your post and I see how u use it but I see just u I need more people to make an opinion.
@Phaeton
Can you link me your test I'm really curious about ^^
@couchlockd
I like and appreciate you buy a CMH and u want test it but try to don't quarrel with other members
_____________________________
I hope everyone understand me, my english isn't too good.
@Hammerhead
U are a professional grower and u grow with a lot of watt and different bulb so maybe is difficoult to do a comparison in a big space and with all this light no?
I have 5"x5" (more or less i have to buy a new tent) and 600/800w to use for grow and I can't do a wrong choice or spent without be sure is the really right way for me.
I like CHM I read a lot of your post and I see how u use it but I see just u I need more people to make an opinion.
@Phaeton
Can you link me your test I'm really curious about ^^
@couchlockd
I like and appreciate you buy a CMH and u want test it but try to don't quarrel with other members
_____________________________
I hope everyone understand me, my english isn't too good.
couchlockd
Active member
Aside from his insults right no one saw that in his first post to me.
Its ok
He's sure it was grower error on my part,
Although the run right after the chm runs, I went back to the hortilux 600 hps's and yield came right back .
But I got a phantom today! Yay! And a bank spanking new cdm elite 3k we will see, it going to replace a single 600w hortilux hps in a 2x5 do it closet.
No way am I taking down the 3 600's in my main room, unless I see this thing do it in the closet.
I may consider doing 3 DE 630's in the main room to replace the hps's but wanna see this phantom kill it first.
NOW, SO THERE ARE "DUFFERENT RULES" WHEN GROWING UNDER CMH
like what are these differences? Light distance, feeding (I do built organic soils, everything is there in abundance, but can go to bottles for extra umph if need be)
Temperatur requirements? Humidity requirements?
Enlighten me, nothing would please me more than to see the money spent on these bulbs and ballasts
Also sorry for derailing the thread and getting crazy the other day.
Sorry cannabologist, sorry OP.
GOT some stresses going on right now, and vented them here for no reason
Its ok
He's sure it was grower error on my part,
Although the run right after the chm runs, I went back to the hortilux 600 hps's and yield came right back .
But I got a phantom today! Yay! And a bank spanking new cdm elite 3k we will see, it going to replace a single 600w hortilux hps in a 2x5 do it closet.
No way am I taking down the 3 600's in my main room, unless I see this thing do it in the closet.
I may consider doing 3 DE 630's in the main room to replace the hps's but wanna see this phantom kill it first.
NOW, SO THERE ARE "DUFFERENT RULES" WHEN GROWING UNDER CMH
like what are these differences? Light distance, feeding (I do built organic soils, everything is there in abundance, but can go to bottles for extra umph if need be)
Temperatur requirements? Humidity requirements?
Enlighten me, nothing would please me more than to see the money spent on these bulbs and ballasts
Also sorry for derailing the thread and getting crazy the other day.
Sorry cannabologist, sorry OP.
GOT some stresses going on right now, and vented them here for no reason
Last edited:
Technically but if ur ballast is a 1k and u are able to dial it down didnt u essentially dim it ? I get what ur saying but dimmable is the appropriate word
Once ur able to reduce power u dimmed it ..there sold as dimmable ballast not bulbs ..
Anywho i agree with you i didnt think cmh could out yield hps but who am i ..this is why im here trying to get the proper info b4 i make assumptions TBH cmh looks just like my plants i get when i use MH ..no stretch/ tight internodes/rich green color/frostier/but the yield was never as much or the nugs never swell like hps but they didnt drink water like the hps plants
I think 315 vs 400 watt high lumen hps is a fair comparison i think we need like a 530w bulb i think that would compete fairly with a hps the 630 is only 2 315s same watts but im not convinced its gonna make it penetrate more than a real 600
couchlockd
Active member
Well if you,use a 1000 watt ballast with a 1000 watt bulb, and set the dial to 60% or 600 watts, yes your dimming a 1000w bulb to 600 watts.
But if you set the ballast to 60% or 600 watts and use a 600 watt bulb your firing a 600 full power on a 600w setting on an adjustable ballast.
The ballasts that have 250, 400, and 600 settings those are normally called select-a-watt or dial-a-watt ballast. Those ballast usually say to match the correct bulb to setting.
Then the dimmable ones that are 600 (for example sake we will use this) they have settings at 75% (450 watts) and 50% (300 watts)
There are no 450 watt bulbs, or 300 watt bulbs so they say to dim your original lamp.
Although I'd like to see a 430w son-T-agro hps ran on a 450w setting see if it lasts.
And then the 1000 watt ballast set on 75% should ideally fireca 750 watt bulb
But I still do not think a 120$ lamp should be dimmed.
Fwiw, I have other ballasts right next to each other in my closet set up, I can just pull power and lamp cord from a 600 and pop it into the 400 and change bulb if I want less power
But if you set the ballast to 60% or 600 watts and use a 600 watt bulb your firing a 600 full power on a 600w setting on an adjustable ballast.
The ballasts that have 250, 400, and 600 settings those are normally called select-a-watt or dial-a-watt ballast. Those ballast usually say to match the correct bulb to setting.
Then the dimmable ones that are 600 (for example sake we will use this) they have settings at 75% (450 watts) and 50% (300 watts)
There are no 450 watt bulbs, or 300 watt bulbs so they say to dim your original lamp.
Although I'd like to see a 430w son-T-agro hps ran on a 450w setting see if it lasts.
And then the 1000 watt ballast set on 75% should ideally fireca 750 watt bulb
But I still do not think a 120$ lamp should be dimmed.
Fwiw, I have other ballasts right next to each other in my closet set up, I can just pull power and lamp cord from a 600 and pop it into the 400 and change bulb if I want less power
I see it as special rules for HPS.
I do not use HPS and the testing was many (11) years ago. Nate came over and set up the lights and schedules and checked to see they were followed. He used a lot more intensity than I would ever consider and underwatered them them severely. The nute mix was different as well, but I still read the labels on the bottles to mix mine even today. I do lights, not food.
The science behind some of his changes are obvious, in other areas it seemed paradoxical.
Chloroplasts build antenna arrays to collect off-frequency energy when they feel it appropriate. When full spectrum light energy strikes the leaf the red and blue are used directly. However, this turns the chlorophyll opaque (thing blood:artery and vein) to red/blue. Antenna arrays in the next layer pull in 7% of the green passing through, up to their halfway point.
If the available full spectrum light energy rises above that 50% rate the leaf begins manufacturing more antenna arrays to funnel in more green. When the maximum is reached (1600 umol,young leaf,average) fully 52% of the total energy used can be from the green spectrum. Our yellow sun has lots and lots of green but smaller amounts of blue, less than 1/2 of 1% is UVB.
This is an easily seen effect, many changes go on through feedback mechanisms to tailor the leaf structure to available light. The blue spectrum can for the most part be made up for. There are some violet and ultra violet reactions that become almost nonexistent without blue. HPS uses Mercury to start the arc, so enough blue/violet do exist for the plant to make higher order organic molecules, albeit at a slower pace.
More antenna arrays make for a thicker leaf. A thick leaf cools slower but is stiffer and can take more airflow. It also sheds water differently.
All these differences require getting a feel for. It took years for me to get where I am with the lights I use. It would take years to get the same feel for HPS light. The reverse is true for HPS growers. Harvests would suffer for at least a year after the change.
As stated earlier, an experienced HPS gardener can match wattages with anybody. If supplements are allowed then it no longer matters, the spectrum can be filled in.
Personally I use five brands of LED, two of HID, KHz digital, 77 Hz digital, magnetic ballast, fluorescent UVB, and stand alone Far Red in three different brands.
HPS alone does not fit into my head at all. I did talk Nate into a pair of HPS specialized LEDs on his light rail, it quickened his plants.
Last edited:
couchlockd
Active member
Jesus...that's a lot to deal with
A lot of what's been said in this thread leaves me scratching my head because it's contrary to my limited experience. When I replaced my 1000w rig with twin 315's I didn't change anything other than turning down the fans. They're even in the same (now modified) reflector. The plants thrive, temp control is easier & the electric bill less. Other than that, it's mostly the same results of ~4 oz/plant with 4-6 weeks veg from seed & 10-12 weeks of bloom in 5 gal fabric pots, depending on the variety. That's what I got w/ 1000w of HPS, as well. I don't prune anything other than some lower branches, don't scrog- just let 'em grow. I could probably veg longer for bigger plants but I don't like fighting with them getting up into the light so I don't. The soil mix I use will carry the plants to harvest on water alone furnished by blumats. It's def the lazy man's grow style.
I'm just an A64 personal grower & way too old for jail so I stick to the plant count maximums. Growing regulars, I start 12 in 1 gal airpots & hope for 6 females but it doesn't always work out that way. Growing fems I just do 6. No clones, no mothers & never any money for what we produce.
Growers who want to wring out every last gram may well see it differently. For anybody who sees it the way I do then CDM's are a good answer particularly since prices have come down. I'd also remind everybody that they're stealthier. Any time that the orange-pink glow of HPS gets out it's a dead giveaway because nobody uses them for anything other than growing & street lights.
I'm just an A64 personal grower & way too old for jail so I stick to the plant count maximums. Growing regulars, I start 12 in 1 gal airpots & hope for 6 females but it doesn't always work out that way. Growing fems I just do 6. No clones, no mothers & never any money for what we produce.
Growers who want to wring out every last gram may well see it differently. For anybody who sees it the way I do then CDM's are a good answer particularly since prices have come down. I'd also remind everybody that they're stealthier. Any time that the orange-pink glow of HPS gets out it's a dead giveaway because nobody uses them for anything other than growing & street lights.
There is a Facebook group discussing how to use CMH grow light
There is a Facebook group discussing how to use CMH grow light
A Facebook group is discussing CMH grow lights. Here is the link: https://www.facebook.com/groups/248519675519386/
There is a Facebook group discussing how to use CMH grow light
A Facebook group is discussing CMH grow lights. Here is the link: https://www.facebook.com/groups/248519675519386/
couchlockd
Active member
Pretty much dovetails in with what Nate did. 1000 watts HPS is WAY more intense than 630 watts of CMH and similar growth is achieved with either.
Trying to use the same intensities with both is just one of the problems when comparing the two, dialing the plants in for optimum gives quite a few more differences. Then there is the adaptability of the marijuana plant giving reasonably good growth and harvests no matter what is done to them.
I find few reasons to disparage anyone's methods that bring a plant to harvest. Being on the lazy side I prefer full spectrum due to it being more forgiving with the rules.
