CMH vs Doble ended vs Single endend

[Jhhnn]

See what the bulb manufacturer says.
.won't even warranty a dimmed bulb if they find out.

Except that doesn't hold for Philips 210-315 CDM tech. If they wouldn't warranty dimmed lamps they wouldn't have dimming built in to the ballasts-

http://images.philips.com/is/conten...807_001-UPD-en_US-IZTMH-210315-R-01-10-14.pdf

I don't understand why people want to dim their lamps, anyway, other than temp control on really hot days in air cooled systems. Twin 315's vs the previous 1000w solved my temp control issues entirely while providing very much the same results. They're ideal for small grows despite the higher up front costs, especially where electric rates are high.

The reason they work as well as they do is that they don't waste energy in the infrared the way HPS lamps do-

http://www.cycloptics.com/sites/default/files/USU_spectral_analysis.pdf

You'll notice that none of the HPS lamp maker charts show that big spike.

 

[couchlockd]

Except that doesn't hold for Philips 210-315 CDM tech. If they wouldn't warranty dimmed lamps they wouldn't have dimming built in to the ballasts-

http://images.philips.com/is/conten...807_001-UPD-en_US-IZTMH-210315-R-01-10-14.pdf

I don't understand why people want to dim their lamps, anyway, other than temp control on really hot days in air cooled systems. Twin 315's vs the previous 1000w solved my temp control issues entirely while providing very much the same results. They're ideal for small grows despite the higher up front costs, especially where electric rates are high.

The reason they work as well as they do is that they don't waste energy in the infrared the way HPS lamps do-

http://www.cycloptics.com/sites/default/files/USU_spectral_analysis.pdf

You'll notice that none of the HPS lamp maker charts show that big spike.

I own 3 sunplix 315 cdm ballasts and use Phillips bulbs. I was not impressed.

They were billed as being able to yield line a 600w hps. Yeah right, didn't even out yield 3 400w hortilux how they replaced

 

[Cannabologist]

Like another has said I've seen tons of results with 315 watt phantom 2 CMH's with people killing it. If you aren't getting results with them it is grower error. Otherwise you bought ballasts from a crap manufacturer - this is often the case with people who skimp out thinking they can buy cheap options when it comes to LEDs or other bulbs/ballasts.

In my opinion there is no real reason to dim a bulb or LED, and especially LEDs, they should just be run at 100% if dimmable. It's called chain/light risers, move up that light!!

 

[couchlockd]

So your able to match yield of a 600w psl or hortilux en with a 315?

I'm,sorry im not a noob, I get very consistent yield, no way all of a sudden when I ran a few 315's did I forget how to grow.

Yeah they came above a 400 watt, slightly, much better quality (almost what i'd say is "night and day" as far as color and bag appeal) but they do not go heat to head with a 600w hps.

 

[Phaeton]

So your able to match yuld of a 1k with a 630?

Back when I had a testing room and tracked this sort of stuff, overloading various frequencies one at a time, side by sides with different brands, UVB increasing to plant death, lights underneath, pretty much anything I could think of for the two years the room saw use.
It took roughly 800 watts of CMH to match 1000 watts of HPS, depending on brand.
The techniques needed for HPS are not the same as CMH, trying to use the same intensities and heat ranges with both will skew the results by a third or more.
This is a major reason HPS gardeners are resistant to change, the learning curve is like starting over, not fun and harvests go down for several runs. Changing to HPS is the same, new techniques need to be learned, the HPS optimum is no where near similar to the CMH optimum.

 

[couchlockd]

Back when I had a testing room and tracked this sort of stuff, overloading various frequencies one at a time, side by sides with different brands, UVB increasing to plant death, lights underneath, pretty much anything I could think of for the two years the room saw use.
It took roughly 800 watts of CMH to match 1000 watts of HPS, depending on brand.
The techniques needed for HPS are not the same as CMH, trying to use the same intensities and heat ranges with both will skew the results by a third or more.
This is a major reason HPS gardeners are resistant to change, the learning curve is like starting over, not fun and harvests go down for several runs. Changing to HPS is the same, new techniques need to be learned, the HPS optimum is no where near similar to the CMH optimum.

So what is different?

Like major points needing adjusted from hps to cdm?

 

[Freet]

The 315watt lec sure takes a beating with this crowd

The 315watt lec sure takes a beating with this crowd

I sold my 600hps and bought better lights... Granted i only ran 30"x 24" screens.... Here's my first run with two ss315 watt.. Finished 26 oz for the two plants....
They will do the work of a 600hps, but they do have a small footprint, 32"x 32" is the coverage they advertize... I use a smaller screen.... If you can't kill it with this light, you need to work on your skills..

 

[couchlockd]

I sold my 600hps and bought better lights... Granted i only ran 30"x 24" screens.... Here's my first run with two ss315 watt.. Finished 26 oz for the two plants....
They will do the work of a 600hps, but they do have a small footprint, 32"x 32" is the coverage they advertize... I use a smaller screen.... If you can't kill it with this light, you need to work on your skills..

I had mine with glass in an air cooled reflector. Is this killing the extra benefits if the 315?

I was told that's the reason for less than stellar results

 

[Freet]

This is a 430watt hps, this was running at the same time as the above plants... It's not all about the light, 50% is the grower...

 

[Freet]

Don't know if that makes a big difference... The first two were in waterfarms, the hps plant was grown in 5 gal coco/perlite....

 

[couchlockd]

What was the yield of the 430?

You said 728 grams off the 315. (26oz, 2.31gpw)

And were you using air cooled glass covered on the 315? How about the 430, glass or no glass?

 

[Jhhnn]

So your able to match yield of a 600w psl or hortilux en with a 315?

I'm,sorry im not a noob, I get very consistent yield, no way all of a sudden when I ran a few 315's did I forget how to grow.

Yeah they came above a 400 watt, slightly, much better quality (almost what i'd say is "night and day" as far as color and bag appeal) but they do not go heat to head with a 600w hps.

First you claimed that a 315 won't out-yield a 400w HPS & now you say they will, with better quality.

Claims that a 315 is the equal of a 600w HPS are marketing hype. At least it's not as bad as the marketing hype for a lot of LED's.

 

[couchlockd]

Came above in terms of quality, but did not say they out yielded it. I worded that statement weird because of the comma I hit on accident.

Came close to 400's. They were less, same plant count, same soil, same pot size. The buds did look better over all. Nicer color for sure, LOOKED FROSTIER/MORE POTENT but really have no way to measure that aspect for sure. Tasted about the same.

Easy now.

 

[Storm Shadow]

I tested out CMH years back and came to the conclusion that spectrum is weak sauce for yields... its honestly garbage

If it aint broke... dont fit it

 

[Freet]

The coco/perlite was in a 28"x 42" space.. Supreme CBD kush from Nirvana.... I only got a little over 8 zo, but wasn't disappointed... I usually get about 20-25% less from coco/perlite, than with a waterfarm... Before i bought a chiller, it was my go to in the summer...
Next grow with my waterfarms will be the first with a chiller to keep the summer water temps down... I've worked my way down to the cheapest, least demanding system... I don't do long term grows since i veg and flower in the waterfarm... 3- 120 day grows is what i try for...

Now for the bad news.... I did it using the Lucas Formula with FloraNova Bloom... I've used it for years, but am switching to Maxibloom lucas formula..
GH took out the 3% citric FNB used to contain as a buffer... Repeated e-mails asking why haven't been answered... I may need to adjust the maxibloom.. Cal-mag and a little silica..

http://lucasformula.com/

 

[couchlockd]

The coco/perlite was in a 28"x 42" space.. Supreme CBD kush from Nirvana.... I only got a little over 8 zo, but wasn't disappointed... I usually get about 20-25% less from coco/perlite, than with a waterfarm... Before i bought a chiller, it was my go to in the summer...
Next grow with my waterfarms will be the first with a chiller to keep the summer water temps down... I've worked my way down to the cheapest, least demanding system... I don't do long term grows since i veg and flower in the waterfarm... 3- 120 day grows is what i try for...

Now for the bad news.... I did it using the Lucas Formula with FloraNova Bloom... I've used it for years, but am switching to Maxibloom lucas formula..
GH took out the 3% citric FNB used to contain as a buffer... Repeated e-mails asking why haven't been answered... I may need to adjust the maxibloom.. Cal-mag and a little silica..

http://lucasformula.com/

Dude you said 26 oz of of 2 315w . I asked if you used glass enclosed air cooled or open fixtures.

Also asked the yield of the 430, and if open or enclosed fiztures.

Were did the 8oz answer come from?

 

[Freet]

CL that's two lights,630 watts =1.15 gpw.. The 430 watt hps is the cbd its yield was 8z...... three lights 2 ss315, 1 430watt hps.... three plants...
All older ss315 lights are bare bulb... No way to cool the older 315s.. I think even the new air cooled 630s are bare bulb...

 

[couchlockd]

CL that's two lights,630 watts =1.15 gpw.. The 430 watt hps is the cbd its yield was 8z...... three lights 2 ss315, 1 430watt hps.... three plants...
All older ss315 lights are bare bulb... No way to cool the older 315s.. I think even the new air cooled 630s are bare bulb...

So air cooled with no lens?

You replaced 2 600's with the 315's?

Just got some questions, as I may do a small closet setup that's 2x5 with a 315, but it would have to be air cooled in a daystar AC.

 

[Muleskinner]

The PAR benchmarks allow you to compare the horsepower of all grow lights. The Philips 315w 3100K CMH bulb is 601 umol. 400w HPS are around 725. So the 400w HPS should yield a little more.

More of the CMH's PAR output falls within the preferred wavelengths of red and blue that plants like for photosynthesis. So it's possible that the CMH yield could be better at the same PAR number. But the PAR number is a good guideline - all the wavelengths help the plant. The 315w bulb is starting at almost a 20% PAR disadvantage, the improved spectrum has to make up that gap and then some.

if it was 315cmh vs. 315 watts of HPS I think most people would choose the CMH specrum all the way, it's nicer to look at, more efficient, more blue to reduce stretch, etc.

 

[couchlockd]

The PAR benchmarks allow you to compare the horsepower of all grow lights. The Philips 315w 3100K CMH bulb is 601 umol. 400w HPS are around 725. So the 400w HPS should yield a little more.

The CMH does have more of the red and blue wavelengths that plants like for photosynthesis. So it's possible that the CMH yield could be better at the same PAR number. But the PAR number is a good guideline.

So basically the wheel has not yet been re-invented?

Imma fit a 600 in that space