Ceramic Metal Halide (CMH)

[rrog]

I see. Thanks Simba. The question could also be phrased "would it be worthwhile to add more blue during veg"

I'm only thinking about a blue / red ratio change in addition to photoperiod change. I always thought the color ratio change was an important signal as well. Perhaps not?

 

[amoril]

color can be a signal, but its easily overriden.

the 'trigger' for flowering is phytochrome, a chemical which responds to the wavelength of light it recieves (blue, red, far red).

so long as the time periods allow for the phytochrome to revert to it's Pr state from Pfr, the wavelength of light shouldnt matter much

 

[rrog]

What a great reply amoril. Thank you for that. So at non-light resting state the phytochrome is in Pr state. Then when excited by whatever wavelength it's designed to receive, it converts to its Pfr state. After some time period, it reverts back to Pr.

I gather that longer days (like an 18 hours veg) don't allow that Pfr time to revert. Also, I gather that there are different phytochromes for different wavelengths?

Thanks again. Very interesting

 

[ugmjfarmer]

I have a question for you CMH gods out there. I have been studying a bit and was wondering what everybody thought of switching my 2000w of dual arcs out for 8 400w CMH's.

The room size is 8x7, and I'd like to make the best use of the whole room with a 6x6 grow area. With my two points of 1000w light this means I'll have to use movers.

So if I had to cram 8 CMH's over a 6x6, what reflectors, and would this be lit better than with my 1000's?

 

[simba]

you could go 5 400's even 4 if u really wanted (id go 4 400s then a 250 in center vertical down at plant level not above much
same wattage but allot more usable energy than 2k just by inv sq law of light then the spd nice...
..x......x..
.....x
..x......x..
reflectors are really dependent on your air cooling requirements etc..

 

[ugmjfarmer]

Hmm.. 1200w of CMH? I was thinking 1600w would work better, 5 points of light. What I really wanted to do is hang one 400w CMH over each 2x3ft tub, 6 of them in total. This is a large scale medi-grow, and right now I'm limited to 24 plants if I choose to run legal, but I could use the affirmative defense to cover a SOG setup.

Air cooling wise, I have an 8" intake 8" exhaust with a can filter 100. Both fans push 747cfm (cap valueline 8"). I had no problem with 2000w of bare bulb MH keeping it cool when I ran a stadium. I've adapted this cooling system to now include an additional 6" exhaust for my 2000w of lights, which are now in Yieldmaster 6's.

I anticipate that this will be too much cooling for the upcoming season and I will be running CO2 and attempting to not exchange air for the next grow. I calculated that with the lights bare bulb, I was able to cool the room to within 10 degrees of ambient, when the ambient was 70's, I was in the 80's. This was before I moved the ballasts out of the grow room and added the aircooled reflectors.

With winter coming up, I'm looking at being able to cool to within 10 degrees of 32 or below.

Heat will not be an issue, even with 8 400w non aircooled CMH's (which I hear run cooler anyways).

 

[aggregatebuzz]

if you don't need the 1000w penetration or as vegg phase lighting it could be a possible improvement

 

[Woall]

quick question...

In order to experience bad effects from the UV rays the CMH bulbs put out, do you have to be directly under it? Is there any danger in "working in the garden" while the light is on? If you wear sunglasses and don't look directly at it, is there any risk of "eye inflammation," as it reads on the label? Just trying to get an idea of how much exposure is bad, I like to be around my plants.

 

[zenoonez]

quick question...

In order to experience bad effects from the UV rays the CMH bulbs put out, do you have to be directly under it? Is there any danger in "working in the garden" while the light is on? If you wear sunglasses and don't look directly at it, is there any risk of "eye inflammation," as it reads on the label? Just trying to get an idea of how much exposure is bad, I like to be around my plants.

Always a smart thing to wear uv eye protection when working around bright objects or outside.

 

[tommyboi_420]

electricity......

LOL!!!!!!!!!! ........

 

[tommyboi_420]

I know I'm new here but I wanted to share these bud shots that I thought fit this thread. These Jack Herer x Herijuana nuggs were grown under a 400 W CMH bulb. I have a freind who grows under CMH and I am out to get one real soon. He has huge yeild and high potency.

DAMN!!!! BIG V...THATS ONE FINE AZZ LOOKIN FEMALE!!!!!!!!

 

[hoosierdaddy]

Woall, the sun puts out far more UV than any bulb could, and we manage to deal with it pretty well.

"Momma always told me not to look into the eyes of the sun...but Momma, that's where the fun is!"

 

[VerdantGreen]

OK i'm in

i have a 250 watt maxigrow compact ballast with a 'large edison screw' type bulb

will my ballast work with cmh? will they deliver to UK????

thanks

V.

 

[TrickHomie]

Hi guys,
I really want to give those CMH bulbs a go. Problem is those HPS Retro White bulbs that you mention are a product for the US and North America.
Browsing in the european catalogue of Philips I stumbled upon Philips Master Color CityWhite bulbs. red a ton of info on them, and they seem to be the same CMH as the RetroWhite, they are also designed as a retrofit for HPS system (SON as named by philips). Examined the spectral power distribution diagram, seems to be the same.
The only thing that concerns me is that this bulb is classified as "outdoor lighting", now as "outdoor" I understand two things:
1) ballast designs allows longer wire spans (designed for luminaries on poles)
2) It heats up BIG TIME!

That second thing concerns me a lot. I am interested in CMH mainly because of the low temps.
Now I really hope that "outdoor" means only that it is a heavy duty lamp, but I prefer to check with you guys.
Has anyone used the Philips Master Color CityWhite lamp? Does it perform similar to the HPS RetroWhite?

I have also found in their catalog another CMH bulb, called the CosmoWhite, a CMH designed on a brand new socket (it is not a direct retrofit for HPS), also designed to work with electronic ballasts exclusively. this one is also qualified as "outdoor". spectral distribution is the almost the same (no UV, because of the quartz outer bulb, but I can always add UV with wide angle diodes). And it is so very efficient compared to retrofit bulbs.
A 90W CosmoWhite bulb puts out ~10500 lumens, that is equivalent to a standard 100W HPS (Philips SON-T PIA PLUS), which is amazing. A CMH that matches the efficiency (even exceeds it) of HPS in the lower mid-wattage range (Considering that SON-T PIA PLUS are not "standard", a stanrart 100W HPS gives out ~9000 lumens).

So has anyone used the Philips MASTER CityWhite CDO-TT bulbs?

In the German catalog of Philips I found MasterColour CDM-TT. The "CDM" supposedly means, that this bulb is designed for (semi)emclosed spaces, as opposed to "CDO" (O for outdoor).

Has anyone used any of those bulbs? Master CityWhite CDO-TT, Master Colour CDM-TT or Master CosmoWhite CDM... all made by PHILIPS, available in the EU?

I'm interested in low wattages, the power envelope of 60W to 250W fits my needs perfectly.

 

[bicyclebenny]

I noticed the CityWhite color temp is 2800k. Here's a retailer: http://www.udopea.de/product_info.p...IPS--Masters-City-White-CDO-TT--150-Watt.html

 

[onegreenday]

I noticed the CityWhite color temp is 2800k. Here's a retailer: http://www.udopea.de/product_info.p...IPS--Masters-City-White-CDO-TT--150-Watt.html

Nice light. In the lamp link it states this:

"The already mentioned exellent colour reproduction (RA > 80) is caused by the inserted CDM-burner."

anybody know what a CDM-burner is? thanks.

 

[ThinkGREEN]

anybody know what a CDM-burner is? thanks.

CDM = Ceramic Discharge Metalhalide .. is actually the same as CMH = Ceramic Metal Halide

I use many different types of CDMs (CDM-T Elite 930 & 942 RA 90 and CDM-TD 830) .. .. from 35W -150W .. they are way better then the CMH Retro-Whites

http://www.lighting.philips.com/gl_...al&parent=4390&id=gl_en_country_sites&lang=en

at the moment I find the OSRAM HCI Powerball technical-data very interesting .. I`m testing them now.
http://www.osram.com/osram_com/Prof...mps/Product_overview/POWERBALL_HCI/index.html

@ TrickHomie
only the the CDM-TP / CDM-EV and 330W/205W CDM lamps with AllStartTechnology are fit for use in open fixtures .. nothing else
http://www.lighting.philips.com/no_no/tools_downloads/luminaire/broschures/philips_cdm_tp.pdf

 

[onegreenday]

CDM = Ceramic Discharge Metalhalide .. is actually the same as CMH = Ceramic Metal Halide

I use many different types of CDMs (CDM-T Elite 930 & 942 RA 90 and CDM-TD 830) .. .. from 35W -150W .. they are way better then the CMH Retro-Whites

http://www.lighting.philips.com/gl_...al&parent=4390&id=gl_en_country_sites&lang=en

How are they better than CMH? Thanks.

 

[TrickHomie]

Thanks for the info @ThinkGREEN

So I am stopping my sight on Philips MasterColor CDM-T bulbs based og G22 sockets (that's what I can get hold of here). But ballasts for those are a bit strange...
For 70W and 150W bulbs it's easy. There are 70W and 150W ballasts:
HID-PrimaVision Compact P CDM 220-240V 50/60Hz
and
HID-PrimaVision Compact I CDM 220-240V 50/60Hz

But when I try to find 250W ballasts, I find this:
HID-PV 210 /S CDM 220-240V 50/60Hz
and
HID-PV 315 /S CDM 220-240V 50/60Hz

Both of these ballasts's manuals say they are designed for 250W CDM bulbs. But when you go down the speciaffication tables - one says
Rated Ballast-Lamp Power 315W
other says
Rated Ballast-Lamp Power 210W

What gives ?!? Does one overdrive the bulb and the other run it on decreased power???
Why isn't there a ballast that is 250W? Thre strangest thing is that both ballasts are designed for 250W bulbs.
Can someone please help me figure this one out???

 

[ThinkGREEN]

How are they better than CMH? Thanks.

first of all ,.. the SPD is much higher ... Temps lower...

Both of these ballasts's manuals say they are designed for 250W CDM bulbs. But when you go down the speciaffication tables - one says
Rated Ballast-Lamp Power 315W
other says
Rated Ballast-Lamp Power 210W

those are only the for the CDM-TMW / CDM-MW

What gives ?!? Does one overdrive the bulb and the other run it on decreased power???
Why isn't there a ballast that is 250W? Thre strangest thing is that both ballasts are designed for 250W bulbs.
Can someone please help me figure this one out???

for CDMs you just need a standard Electronic/Magnetic HID Ballast, just like for MH/HQI (aquarium-lightning) ...