Can't figure this deficiency out

[Three Berries]

Where do you get it? Is it in powder form? Any issues I should be concerned about with an acetate?

I got it off ebay. $11 a pound. A pound is a lot. It's lightweight and hydroscopic, a mild inhalation irritant. Basically they dissolve calcium carbonate in acetic acid(vinegar) and get the Calcium acetate. This is highly soluble in water and when the plant finds it the Ca is absorbed and the acetate turns back into vinegar. So it lowers soil pH but it's rather an insignificant amount. 25% Ca by weight. A pound comes in a pint container.

A 1/2 teaspoon is 1 gram, I use 2 gr per 500 ml water per plant.

They say do not mix with phosphate or sulfates, or if you do add it last.

 

[Three Berries]

Here is a petition with the USDA to list it as an organic fertilizer. Good info in the application on what it does and how it reacts.

https://www.ams.usda.gov/sites/default/files/media/PetitionCalciumAcetate.pdf

And another site explaining how to use as fert.

https://patents.google.com/patent/WO2015190905A1/en

 

[f-e]

So at this point my game plan is going to be...

1) Adjust the feed up to where it needs to be
2) Continue using calmag until I can get 20% well water in my tanks
3) Keep a much closer eye on the inputs and runoff

What are your thoughts on Potassium Silicate as a buffer? I use it weekly in Veg but I don't in flower. I've seen a few threads here and there that suggest using it for a buffer. at 1ml/Gallon it would require me to use a small amount of pH down(I currently use sulfuric acid) to get the pH to ~5.8.

I actually use the tap as my pH up. I could overshoot then come back down with P-acid for a bit more buffering. I think I ran out though, I just have N-acid which can't be used like that.

I have to go to work.. I will try and check back later.

 

[Three Berries]

Clear ammonia is a powerful pH up. Though it competes with the carbonate cation.

 

[ButterflyEffect]

I got it off ebay. $11 a pound. A pound is a lot. It's lightweight and hydroscopic, a mild inhalation irritant. Basically they dissolve calcium carbonate in acetic acid(vinegar) and get the Calcium acetate. This is highly soluble in water and when the plant finds it the Ca is absorbed and the acetate turns back into vinegar. So it lowers soil pH but it's rather an insignificant amount. 25% Ca by weight. A pound comes in a pint container.

A 1/2 teaspoon is 1 gram, I use 2 gr per 500 ml water per plant.

They say do not mix with phosphate or sulfates, or if you do add it last.

Thanks! That's very helpful. I'll look into this today.

When you say add last, do you mean the acetate or the phosphates and sulfates?

 

[ButterflyEffect]

I actually use the tap as my pH up. I could overshoot then come back down with P-acid for a bit more buffering. I think I ran out though, I just have N-acid which can't be used like that.

I have to go to work.. I will try and check back later.

Look forward to more of your wise input!

 

[ButterflyEffect]

Clear ammonia is a powerful pH up. Though it competes with the carbonate cation.

I like the effects of the potassium silicate overall, so I'll see where this takes me for now.

 

[Three Berries]

I'm also using a new fertilizer mix. They also offer a recipe that adds Epsom salt and Calcium Nitrate. They caution that when mixing the nutes, first their fertilizer blend, then the MG, THEN the Calcium Nitrate. it just needs to be added last so it doesn't get beat out by the phosphates, as I under stand it anyway.

Here is the MasterBlend fertilizer and the label directions.

 

[ButterflyEffect]

I'm also using a new fertilizer mix. They also offer a recipe that adds Epsom salt and Calcium Nitrate. They caution that when mixing the nutes, first their fertilizer blend, then the MG, THEN the Calcium Nitrate. it just needs to be added last so it doesn't get beat out by the phosphates, as I under stand it anyway.

Here is the MasterBlend fertilizer and the label directions.

Hmm. Those numbers look pretty good. I'll have to throw them into the calculator to see how it all looks. I currently use Jacks 5-12-26, so similar. I have to perform the same order for mixing, as well.

I just picked up a new bag of Jacks, but when I start to run low this may be a great option. Thanks!

 

[f-e]

Jacks & MB both say calnit last. It just seems to be forums saying calnit first.

Some say, the difference between Jacks and MB, is just the Mg

 

[ButterflyEffect]

Jacks & MB both say calnit last. It just seems to be forums saying calnit first.

Some say, the difference between Jacks and MB, is just the Mg

I'm not sure who would say to put in the calnit first, or why for that matter. IIRC, it has something to do with the Mg needing to be well mixed in prior so something doesn't precipitate out, the calcium maybe?

 

[Three Berries]

Hmm. Those numbers look pretty good. I'll have to throw them into the calculator to see how it all looks. I currently use Jacks 5-12-26, so similar. I have to perform the same order for mixing, as well.

I just picked up a new bag of Jacks, but when I start to run low this may be a great option. Thanks!

We will see how it does in FF Happy Frog next grow. The low nitrogen would be good for that soil I think and great for when it goes to flower. It has the trace minerals too that the Miracle Grow I was using and FF Ocean Forest seems to lack.

 

[f-e]

I'm not sure who would say to put in the calnit first, or why for that matter. IIRC, it has something to do with the Mg needing to be well mixed in prior so something doesn't precipitate out, the calcium maybe?

You don't want to make calcium phosphate or gypsum
The calcium nitrate poses the calcium phosphate risk with your feed.
The calcium nitrate poses the gypsum risk with the epsom salts.


I have continually found I'm mixing in the wrong order over the years. It's all liquid though. Even my epsom salts is in solution that matches my calmag in strength (1.5% elemental). I think I would of run into trouble with actual salts, but have no evidence of issues from my mistakes with liquids.

 

[ButterflyEffect]

We will see how it does in FF Happy Frog next grow. The low nitrogen would be good for that soil I think and great for when it goes to flower. It has the trace minerals too that the Miracle Grow I was using and FF Ocean Forest seems to lack.

I was thinking that it might make a better flower formula than the Jacks. When I get the time I'll run the numbers and maybe I'll pick up a bag. I'm gonna need more CalNit soon anyway and I wanted to upgrade to the Haifa Prime stuff, provided I can get it without getting gouged for the shipping. I mean, I'm only paying like $70 shipped for the Jacks CalNit 25# bag now.

 

[ButterflyEffect]

You don't want to make calcium phosphate or gypsum
The calcium nitrate poses the calcium phosphate risk with your feed.
The calcium nitrate poses the gypsum risk with the epsom salts.


I have continually found I'm mixing in the wrong order over the years. It's all liquid though. Even my epsom salts is in solution that matches my calmag in strength (1.5% elemental). I think I would of run into trouble with actual salts, but have no evidence of issues from my mistakes with liquids.

Luckily I've never had a problem with any precipitation or fallout. I mix concentrates of both Part A and CalNit and I no longer use Epsom as the Jacks has plenty and I was inducing calcium deficiencies when I used it. I'll occasionally do an Epsom foliar since there are LEDs in my Veg room (First and second stage lights are half T5 and half LED and third stage is a CMH).

 

[Three Berries]

Here is some discussions of the incompatibility of fertilizers and mineral supplements.

When mixing fertilizers, it is important to check fertilizer compatibility before application. If incompatible fertilizers are mixed, they form insoluble precipitations that can clog drip emitters and damage sprayers used to apply foliar fertilizers. This article discusses a few scenarios for which special attention should be paid on the solubility of mixed fertilizers.

*****************************************

Scenario 1. A grower is using 20-20-20, a complete fertilizer to fertigate tomatoes. To prevent blossom end rot, he decided to add calcium nitrate in his fertigation program. However, problems may be caused by the application of these two fertilizers. The reason is that calcium from calcium nitrate and phosphate from ammonium phosphate in the complete fertilizer may form calcium phosphate, which is insoluble in water.

Scenario 2. A soil test indicates that tomato plants are low in magnesium. Epson salt (magnesium sulfate) is recommended to correct magnesium deficiency. The grower should avoid applying Epson salt together with complete fertilizers because magnesium from Epson salt forms an insoluble compund when it meets phosphate in the complete fertilizer. In both cases, calcium nitrate and magnesium sulfate should be applied separately with the complete fertilizers.

Scenario 3. The grower wants to apply both calcium nitrate and magnesium sulfate through drip to add calcium and magnesium during the season. These two fertilizers also should not be applied together because calcium nitrate and magnesium sulfate form calcium sulfate, which has a low solubility.

Scenario 4. A grower wants to foliar apply a high phosphorus fertilizer at blooming stage to increase flowering and help fruit set. He also wants to apply a foliar micronutrient fertilizer solution because plant tissue test indicates plants are low in Boron and Zinc. However, several cations (such as Boron, Zinc, Copper, Iron etc.) in the foliar fertilizer solution are insoluble with phosphate, especially if they are not in a chelated form. The high phosphorus fertilizer should not be applied together with the foliar nutrient solution.

It is impossible to list all the incompatible fertilizers. The best approach is to conduct a jar test before mixing fertilizers. When doing a jar test, the fertilizers should be mixed in the same concentration as intended to be used. If you see the mixed solution has a milky appearance, the fertilizers should not be mixed and applied together.



https://vegcropshotline.org/article/fertilizer-compatibility/

 

[f-e]

How are my plants still alive, and how will I ever feed them again. Them things are coming together at some point. Even if it's in the substrate. There is just no way around it.

I'm not going to sleep now. Telling me horror stories like this. You are a bad man Three Berries

 

[ButterflyEffect]

Here is some discussions of the incompatibility of fertilizers and mineral supplements.

When mixing fertilizers, it is important to check fertilizer compatibility before application. If incompatible fertilizers are mixed, they form insoluble precipitations that can clog drip emitters and damage sprayers used to apply foliar fertilizers. This article discusses a few scenarios for which special attention should be paid on the solubility of mixed fertilizers.

*****************************************

Scenario 1. A grower is using 20-20-20, a complete fertilizer to fertigate tomatoes. To prevent blossom end rot, he decided to add calcium nitrate in his fertigation program. However, problems may be caused by the application of these two fertilizers. The reason is that calcium from calcium nitrate and phosphate from ammonium phosphate in the complete fertilizer may form calcium phosphate, which is insoluble in water.

Scenario 2. A soil test indicates that tomato plants are low in magnesium. Epson salt (magnesium sulfate) is recommended to correct magnesium deficiency. The grower should avoid applying Epson salt together with complete fertilizers because magnesium from Epson salt forms an insoluble compund when it meets phosphate in the complete fertilizer. In both cases, calcium nitrate and magnesium sulfate should be applied separately with the complete fertilizers.

Scenario 3. The grower wants to apply both calcium nitrate and magnesium sulfate through drip to add calcium and magnesium during the season. These two fertilizers also should not be applied together because calcium nitrate and magnesium sulfate form calcium sulfate, which has a low solubility.

Scenario 4. A grower wants to foliar apply a high phosphorus fertilizer at blooming stage to increase flowering and help fruit set. He also wants to apply a foliar micronutrient fertilizer solution because plant tissue test indicates plants are low in Boron and Zinc. However, several cations (such as Boron, Zinc, Copper, Iron etc.) in the foliar fertilizer solution are insoluble with phosphate, especially if they are not in a chelated form. The high phosphorus fertilizer should not be applied together with the foliar nutrient solution.

It is impossible to list all the incompatible fertilizers. The best approach is to conduct a jar test before mixing fertilizers. When doing a jar test, the fertilizers should be mixed in the same concentration as intended to be used. If you see the mixed solution has a milky appearance, the fertilizers should not be mixed and applied together.



https://vegcropshotline.org/article/fertilizer-compatibility/

The incompatibilities are still only one piece of the puzzle, too. Then there's the antagonisms and stimulations from too much of a particular element, let alone the deficiencies from not enough of one.

 

[Three Berries]

This grow was showing the yellow leaves between the veins at the top. I'm going to use some Calcium and Magnesium chloride to make my Cal Mag. Been adding some 1200 ppm CaCl directly, 1/4 cup per plant. Seems to have fixed the led yellowing issue.

 

[Creeperpark]

If you are using a quality potting mix and a complete fertilizer there's no reason to have a deficiency. If a plant is showing deficiency after using quality mix and fertilizer then it's a watering issue. He said it's only one plant out of many with this problem so that tells me the one container was getting more water than the others by holding a more dense amount of soil. When all the plants were watered that pot took more water and held more water. The plant processes too much or too little calcium it can bronze the leaves and appear as a deficiency but it's not a deficiency. It's a water or watering issue.

Note: telling anyone to put something in their soil without knowing their soil chemistry is being very irresponsible. Fertilizer isn’t medicine for sick plants. If plants are ailing for other reasons, fertilizer won’t help plants snap out of it.