Cannabis is already Legalized in California (and I'm going to prove it)

[Hydro-Soil]

Except for the part of taxing Cannabis atleast $50 per ounce. Errr wrong sorry, it's trash.

You still hung up on that?

So stupid since 90% of us wouldn't even come close to a taxable situation. Sure, pharma and other industries will be paying that tax and I can definitely see it being knocked down lower within a year.


Best thing to come down the pike since 215 and you're hung on a tax. Lame.

Oh, and in case anyone is confused.... the California Cannabis Initiative 2010 is NOT the Oaksterdam initiative.

 

[FreedomFGHTR]

So stupid since 90% of us wouldn't even come close to a taxable situation.

Obviously you aren't aware of Trickle Down economics. Unfortunately the taxes will trickle down to the consumer and they will ultimately be the ones who suffer. Since I do own a business a $50 and ounce Tax gives me a few options, take away pay and benefits for employees or make my Cannabis more expensive. Sorry but I would rather not have to deal with either.

Sure, pharma and other industries will be paying that tax and I can definitely see it being knocked down lower within a year.

Too bad the language of your treasonous initiative calls for ATLEAST $50 per ounce. This is on top of Sales tax, income tax, corporate tax, and federal tax, payroll tax. Tax tax tax. Fuck that we don't need anymore taxes. Those who would give up Taxes in order to have Cannabis deserve neither their money nor their weed.

Best thing to come down the pike since 215 and you're hung on a tax. Lame.

It's not good enough for Dennis Peron, it's not good enough for me. It is not the best thing. Anything that puts controll taxes or regulations on Cannabis is bullshit and treasonous to all pot smokers, including our founding fathers who fought to have hemp free from taxation.

Oh, and in case anyone is confused.... the California Cannabis Initiative 2010 is NOT the Oaksterdam initiative.

No it's not but all the proposed initiatives and AB390 are crap. Don't buy the arguments that taxes make it politically palatable. 215 was passed to be unrestrictive and to not have our weed taxed. A doctors visit once a year for $100 is cheaper than $50 an ounce for most people.

 

[707Corridor]

I said "Generic", not as a put down on your name, simply that "California Cannabis" is a common phrase, and I don't think you can copyright those...it would be like opening a Brewery, and calling it, "Cold Beer"...you could not make ppl not use that phrase--

A better example then Washington Apples is everyones Favorite beer...Natural Ice

You cannot get anymore generic then that.

Goodluck FF and Godspeed.

 

[Hydro-Soil]

Too bad the language of your treasonous initiative calls for ATLEAST $50 per ounce. This is on top of Sales tax, income tax, corporate tax, and federal tax, payroll tax. Tax tax tax. Fuck that we don't need anymore taxes. Those who would give up Taxes in order to have Cannabis deserve neither their money nor their weed.

Just because YOU as a small cash cropper won't make any money, doesn't mean it's not a fantastic deal for the rest of the general population. I won't EVER pay that tax and since I'm a medical user that's awesome.

Same goes for your average Joe that's 21 or over.


Believe me.... once it gets passed and large scale industry starts.... that AT LEAST will go away FAST! You act like the tax is set in stone and that's ridiculous.

 

[FreedomFGHTR]

Hydrosoil why does that initiative set an age limit at 21? That is totally unfair and biased. I started smoking Cannabis at 17. You can be old enough to die for your country and fight for our freedom but you cannot spark a joint or plant a seed? Thats not right.

and how about this

(d) The unauthorized sale of cannabis shall be subject to civil and regulatory penalties to be determined by the Legislature.

Penalties??? 215 says nothing of penalties yet this initiative does??? Bet you the fines are going to be real steep. Honestly I will benefit regardless of which Initiative passes. But in general everyone else loses. We stand to lose more freedom's by the passage of those bills, and more to gain and an easier challenge by simply going to court.

The Legislature shall create a system for the fair and orderly taxation of commercial production, sales and other cannabis business related activities within one year of the passage of this Act. The rate of taxation shall be initially set at no less than Fifty United States Dollars per ounce of Cannabis.

In the history of the world when have you seen taxes that have gone down? Maybe if you are in the top 1% income bracket. But anything that taxes a consumable item will always get worse.

 

[Hydro-Soil]

You can't see the forest for the trees.

Yes, taxes have gone down in any case where it's been detrimental. Currently the legislation is being drafted by people that don't understand the impact this is going to have.

Would it be better without the tax? Hell yes! Is it better than anything else going at the moment? HELL YES! Or would you rather see people continue to sit in prison for cannabis? That alone is worth signing for and there are too many benefits to list that are indirect results of this passing.


Age limit? I don't see that one going away anytime soon due to the recreational aspect of it. Hoping that some legislation will come down the pike that will allow kids free access to it for other than medical reasons is some big wishful thinking. I can see it coming down to around 18 but that's about it.
Total and complete legalization like Lettuce is still a long way off. This initiative will be a big step forward in that direction.


People need to step back and take a real look at ALL the areas where this will be a benefit. The parts everyone is complaining about will definitely be fixed. All it takes is awareness of the facts. 15 years after prop 215 and this state is STILL full of people that are clueless. It's time to explode the industry.... it'll spread the information much faster.

 

[nephilthim]

You can't see the forest for the trees.

Yes, taxes have gone down in any case where it's been detrimental. Currently the legislation is being drafted by people that don't understand the impact this is going to have.

Would it be better without the tax? Hell yes! Is it better than anything else going at the moment? HELL YES! Or would you rather see people continue to sit in prison for cannabis? That alone is worth signing for and there are too many benefits to list that are indirect results of this passing.


Age limit? I don't see that one going away anytime soon due to the recreational aspect of it. Hoping that some legislation will come down the pike that will allow kids free access to it for other than medical reasons is some big wishful thinking. I can see it coming down to around 18 but that's about it.
Total and complete legalization like Lettuce is still a long way off. This initiative will be a big step forward in that direction.


People need to step back and take a real look at ALL the areas where this will be a benefit. The parts everyone is complaining about will definitely be fixed. All it takes is awareness of the facts. 15 years after prop 215 and this state is STILL full of people that are clueless. It's time to explode the industry.... it'll spread the information much faster.

every individual has the right to their own opine another inititve changes nothing from a federal stance . we have de facto legalization with prop 215
so whats your point?
my point is I don't wish to subsidize the excess of goverment through the proverbial low hanging fruit.everyone seems to think it needs to be taxed or regulated but as I have said before: I feel it's hypocritical to subsidize the very people who have fought,jailed,openly controvert known medical science and california law.

 

[FreedomFGHTR]

You can't see the forest for the trees.

Probably because I have my nose deep in law books right now.

Currently the legislation is being drafted by people that don't understand the impact this is going to have.

Which is precisely the problem. They don't understand the impacts of a ballot initiative and their signifigance. My FRIENDS got 215 passed. I am pretty sure they understand the impacts that illogically thought out legislation pose. And that is why we have the same position.

Would it be better without the tax? Hell yes!

Then why support taxation?

Is it better than anything else going at the moment? HELL YES!

Check the original post. We have had the best thing since 1996. Finally federal pressure is off so lets roll with the best we ALREADY HAVE.

Or would you rather see people continue to sit in prison for cannabis? That alone is worth signing for and there are too many benefits to list that are indirect results of this passing.

Have you been to prison? I have. Have you lived in the same cell with a person doing 75 to life for weed and a gun? I have. You sir are in no position to lecture me on matters of prison. Infact I am the one who is sticking their neck out to get case law to clarify prop 215 once and for all. That right there will keep people out of prison for cannabis.

Age limit? I don't see that one going away anytime soon due to the recreational aspect of it. Hoping that some legislation will come down the pike that will allow kids free access to it for other than medical reasons is some big wishful thinking.

Did you read prop 215? No age limit dude. Easy to back up in court. So you would let kids goto war and die for this country and it's politics but not let them smoke? Remember people under 21 do vote too.

People need to step back and take a real look at ALL the areas where this will be a benefit. The parts everyone is complaining about will definitely be fixed. All it takes is awareness of the facts. 15 years after prop 215 and this state is STILL full of people that are clueless. It's time to explode the industry.... it'll spread the information much faster.

See once an initiative collects signatures it is a done deal. Once it gets on the ballot and arguements are presented it is clearly framed. If the voters pass it, guess what it's hard to change or modify it. Thats the beauty of prop 215 and the only thing that can change it is another voter initiative. Sadly the proposed ones do more harm than good.

Yes people including lawyers, cops, politicians, activists, growers, and smokers are clueless. That is why this thing is going to get settled in court. Remember it was a court case that got abortion legal Roe v Wade.

 

[Babbabud]

Nice work FF thanks

 

[aligee]

Nice work FF thanks

I agree! Sounds like this is your calling I read thru this thread and am impressed with your words and can say i agree with just about all you have said Respect bro ~aliG~!!

 

[ChronJohn]

FF I feel you on the age limit and tax. That has always been my biggest issue with all these legalization efforts (RTC 2010, TRC 2010, AB390) and always will be. For one thing, $50 floor is asinine that'll barely let mom and pop shops compete with the black market. 21 age limit is stupid because I think just like you do (and feel the same way about alcohol, or any drug for that matter..) an 18 year old can sign away his life to the Army, or a credit card company but cant go out and get fucked up when they realize that they just fucked up? That's stupid. So I feel you. However what I like about THC 2010 is that it doesn't affect medical users at all. If an 18 year old really wants to smoke or grow, they can get a rec. That's what happens now, and that's how it will (hopefully) always be. Since you're in the business of MEDICAL marijuana, why do you care how it affects recreational users/sellers? Obviously you're going to want to expand into the recreational market, but as you said you will be unaffected no matter whether they pass or not, or not matter which of them passes. I think letting people out of jail and clearing their rrecord of cannabis offenses is a fucking awesome deal considering I know a lot of people who are jobless or working sub-par jobs just because of a cannabis offense being on their record. I too have been a POW in the war on drugs... and I never want to go back or ever worry about anyone else going there either and would like to see all POWs released ASAP. So I honestly don't see what the big deal with passing THC 2010 is. But your idea sounds pretty bamf I just don't know how it would affect people's records or people currently in jail for cannabis offenses. Good luck man and godspeeeeddddd

 

[Hydro-Soil]

However what I like about THC 2010 is that it doesn't affect medical users at all.

Your facts are wrong. Under THC 2010 no medical patient will EVER be able to practice proper horticulture with the grow limits they've set. Only large institutions will be able to afford the licensing to bypass that one.



I wish all the best of luck with Prop 215. It's a better result if you can force the hand but the CCI 2010 stands a better chance and sooner.


EVENTUALLY all this crap is going to go away..... the only difference is in HOW LONG it takes.. Are you willing to wait another 20 years to 'Prove' in courts that 215 is all we need? I'm not.

 

[Hash Zeppelin]

I hope freedom fighter wins, it would be the best way to have things. true freedom.

 

[Blue Dot]

However what I like about THC 2010 is that it doesn't affect medical users at all. If an 18 year old really wants to smoke or grow, they can get a rec. That's what happens now, and that's how it will (hopefully) always be.

Ugh. Not EVERYONE is sick.

Yes, prop 215 allows for "any serious medical condition for which MJ provides relief" but there are PLENTY of 18 year olds with no medical conditions at all.

Your logic is what dilutes the value of prop 215.

 

[FreedomFGHTR]

Ugh. Not EVERYONE is sick.

Yes, prop 215 allows for "any serious medical condition for which MJ provides relief" but there are PLENTY of 18 year olds with no medical conditions at all.

Your logic is what dilutes the value of prop 215.

All use is medicinal. Even recreational use is for Therapeutic Stress Relief. Seriously man. Its all medical we all need a head change for our own mental health. If you need to smoke to have fun, you have a medical issue. Hell if you smoke enough weed like me you can have your doctors diagnose you with Cannabis Dependency and still get a rec to smoke.

It doesn't dilute prop 215 it shows the true beauty in it's simplicity and wide range of application.

 

[FreedomFGHTR]

I wish all the best of luck with Prop 215. It's a better result if you can force the hand but the CCI 2010 stands a better chance and sooner.

Newsflash prop 215 was passed in 1996. Really we are at the end of the war and it's just a properly defended trial that goes to the 3rd district court away. Then it will be feds only. Which have said they will leave those who follow state medical marijuana law alone. So lets keep with the easiest laws to follow which is what we have now. Why complicate the matter and piss off the feds, which by the way will then start busting grows indiscriminately.

EVENTUALLY all this crap is going to go away..... the only difference is in HOW LONG it takes.. Are you willing to wait another 20 years to 'Prove' in courts that 215 is all we need? I'm not.

That is how long it would take for any of the proposed initiatives to work their way through the courts. It is a process that all laws go through. Even ancient laws get changed by new court decisions and thinking.

 

[ChronJohn]

Your facts are wrong. Under THC 2010 no medical patient will EVER be able to practice proper horticulture with the grow limits they've set. Only large institutions will be able to afford the licensing to bypass that one.

I didn't see anything saying that medical users were bound to any limits, nor did I see any specific limit in there at all. All I see is "amounts reasonable to personal use". Currently the "law" (being challenged in the courts, but still law) is 6 mature, 12 immature right? Well this law has no floor or ceiling and if your doctor says that your "personal" needs are say 30 plants then that should be substantial enough to show that it's an "amount reasonable to personal use". At least that's what I think, if the law affects Prop 215 at all. Again I have my issues with the law (age limit, tax) but we must also learn how to make concessions since this IS the real world and not some stoner fantasy land, and I think that the less people have that their lives fucked up because of an MJ arrest the better. It's time for us to move forward as a society and realize that prohibiting something that is god-given and natural, is, well, unnatural.

Ugh. Not EVERYONE is sick.

Yes, prop 215 allows for "any serious medical condition for which MJ provides relief" but there are PLENTY of 18 year olds with no medical conditions at all.

Your logic is what dilutes the value of prop 215.

Not "any serious medical condition", rather any "seriously ill Californian.. [whose] health may benefit.. from the use of marijauna in the treatment of.. any.. illness for which marijuana provides relief" <--- intentionally written loosely (who are we to judge who is ill enough to deserve MJ and who isnt?).
And not my logic, but reality. Sorry to say but there are plenty of doctors, or "doctors" who will be happy to take your $150-$200, hear "my back hurts" or "I can't sleep", give you the rec, and have you on your way. Are they seriously ill? Not really. Is it what the voters intended? Doubt it. Is it a good thing? If it keeps people out of jail then idc and frankly neither should you. This is about having legal access to medicine which helps people, and choosing a substance safer than any prescription. It's good for what ails ya.


All this said I'd love to see FF succeed but legalization is bound to happen through other avenues by the time there is any precedent made in any court.

Peace and Jah bless.

 

[FreedomFGHTR]

All this said I'd love to see FF succeed but legalization is bound to happen through other avenues by the time there is any precedent made in any court.

You should check out a copy of the Annotated Health&Safety Code. It lists plenty of precedents already.

That is why I know this will succeed. Honestly the only "legalization" effort with any stream is Richard Lee's. He has the money to get the signatures and get it on the ballot. But his is the worst of the bunch by far, so it won't happen anyways.

 

[Hydro-Soil]

I didn't see anything saying that medical users were bound to any limits, nor did I see any specific limit in there at all.

GAAAAH! Bad meds, my attitude and focus have been slipping big-time the last few weeks. *sigh*

You're quite correct, it's the Oaksterdam "ROT 2010" that would restrict the medical growers and keep horticulture in the hands of big business.

 

[The Bling]

SO PER-SAY A DOCTOR WENT ON TELEVISION AND MABE A PUBLIC STATEMENT I RECOMMEND THAT ALL ADULTS SMOKE MARIJUANA TO ALEVIATE THE HYPERTENSION CREATED BY A FAILING ECONOMY/TO ENSURE RESTFULL SLEEP OR WHAT EVER THEN WEED IS LEGAL FOR EVERYONE RIGHT THATS AN ORAL RECOMMENDATION TO ME !!!!? I WONT EVER RENEW MY RECOMMENDATION AGAIN I KNOW THAT