Can Not Shake This Calcium Deficiency/Lockout For The Life Of Me!! Why???

[gmanwho]

Based on what I see in your first posts, you are over feeding your plants in my opinion.

Under and over feeding can look the same on leaves. Looking at your crown leaves curling up you are def giving her too much EC, or your medium is drying up too much between waterings causing EC/PH issues.

the messed up thing is a unhealty rootzone will show like overfeeding or underfeeding. you chase things in both directions.

 

[Rabbi]

Rabbi. ya the bene route doesnt always work. it does work well after you get everything in check.

i was in the same boat. i cut back all flower rooms to nothing.

i took as many as i could an turned into moms. i treated the moms with banrot( yes its ornamental only). treated feedings with pool shock always an occasionally hydrogen peroxide w/ peracetic acid. Of like 25 Different genetics i lost only one. but there was a hell of a learning curve on knowing with the hydrogen peroxide peracetic acid. i lost alot of mothers. but after a few treatments things began to rebound.

few generations of clones later with no banrot, things seem to be on 75% on track. i run a good amount of plants an i have maybe 500 containers so i dont expect to get everything in one shot...



the pool shock. i take 68% hypochlrite powder an weigh out 45 grams to one gallon ro. i then administer that stock solution at 3 mill per gallon , 2 mill per gallon, or 1 mill per gallon. Free chlorine will be absorbed an deposited like calcium in the the leaves. it will then evaporate in the cell an destroy the cell leaving marks just like heavy cal def. thats when i know to start lowering the mill per gallon.

simply put, If the free chlorine is occupied in the water, or the rootzone, it will be less absorbed. so if your feeding 3mpg an dont see cal spotting theres activity preventing the chlorine from making it to the roots.

Banrot 40WP i measured in at 1 mill per gallon, 2 feedings in a row. then waited 2 weeks or so with another follow up 2 treatments. after 2 treatments moms began to get healthy again. i had lesions an bark forming where fungi once occupied the main stalk. i have some sick stalk photos i should upload


after those clones where taken i stopped the banrot. a few generations later the clones should be clean an free from the systemic fungicide.


2 ingredients in banrot

Etridazole
https://efsa.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.2903/j.efsa.2010.1823

Thiophanate-methyl
https://efsa.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.2903/j.efsa.2018.5133

again, i would only use the banrot to get the moms healthy to take fungal free clones. then banrot would not be used. every watering chlorine is added an possibly alternate feedings with hydrogen peroxicide.

all irrigation lines replaced. pumps,fittings, ph pens, soaked scrubbed in bleach. then removed an soaked in SEPERATE hydrogen peroxide peracetic acid solution. when chlorine an hydrogen are mixed together in concentrate it will off gas something fierce. u can do light concentrations together, but there is a fine line....

I've been using this formula for my dosage:

"I have some calcium hypochlorite (pool shock) that says 49% available chlorine. How much do I add to get 2 ppm of chlorine to a 100 gallon reservoir?
To figure for 2 ppm of TOTAL chlorine is simple.

Remember 1mg/L = 1 ppm

So 2 ppm would be 2 mg per liter of water.

100 gallons = 378.5 liters. So 378.5 x 2 = 757 mg

But its only 49 percent strong. So 757/.49=1545 mg or 1.545 g"


But came across this calculator yesterday that does it all for a guy:

https://www.manicbotanix.com/calculators/dilution-concentration-calc.php

First couple days I dosed for 10ppm. Then I panicked cause I thought it was way too much so I ran a new res yesterday and dosed for 3ppm. Now I feel like that's not enough as I'm already starting to see brown tips on the end of some roots and thinking of adding 5ppm today.

Idk, maybe I should stick with 10ppm for a while. At this point I'd rather see them fucked over from too much chlorine as opposed to root rot. Almost ready to just toss them anyway so not afraid to go high with the chlorine.

Yes I will definitely be soaking and scrubbing everything down in bleach before tossing my seedlings into action.

What a shit show this has been.

 

[Rabbi]

the messed up thing is a unhealty rootzone will show like overfeeding or underfeeding. you chase things in both directions.

Yep, totally.

 

[gmanwho]

I've been using this formula for my dosage:

"I have some calcium hypochlorite (pool shock) that says 49% available chlorine. How much do I add to get 2 ppm of chlorine to a 100 gallon reservoir?
To figure for 2 ppm of TOTAL chlorine is simple.

Remember 1mg/L = 1 ppm

So 2 ppm would be 2 mg per liter of water.

100 gallons = 378.5 liters. So 378.5 x 2 = 757 mg

But its only 49 percent strong. So 757/.49=1545 mg or 1.545 g"


But came across this calculator yesterday that does it all for a guy:

https://www.manicbotanix.com/calculators/dc-calc-result.php

First couple days I dosed for 10ppm. Then I panicked cause I thought it was way too much so I ran a new res yesterday and dosed for 3ppm. Now I feel like that's not enough as I'm already starting to see brown tips on the end of some roots and thinking of adding 5ppm today.

Idk, maybe I should stick with 10ppm for a while. At this point I'd rather see them fucked over from too much chlorine as opposed to root rot. Almost ready to just toss them anyway so not afraid to go high with the chlorine.

Yes I will definitely be soaking and scrubbing everything down in bleach before tossing my seedlings into action.

What a shit show this has been.

the brown tips could be bad bacteria.
i like that calculator, math is not my strong suit. i forgot about maniacbotanix. i used to order often till i found customhydronutrients dot com.

tell me about it, i have lost irreplaceable genetics an 100's of thousands of dollars due to this. good thing im in a legal state

 

[Rabbi]

the brown tips could be bad bacteria.
i like that calculator, math is not my strong suit. i forgot about maniacbotanix. i used to order often till i found customhydronutrients dot com.

tell me about it, i have lost irreplaceable genetics an 100's of thousands of dollars due to this. good thing im in a legal state

Yes brown tips are never a good sign. Think I'll add 5ppm today and up it if I don't see improvements over the next couple days.

My only concern is adding too much, frying the roots and then mistaking it for rot.

 

[LAION]

Before figuring out I had a bad root disease I tried many different levels of EC(high, low, none) and even tried several different nutrient brands. The problem turned out to be nutrient lock out, due to rotting roots.

No way root rot was the origin of problem here. We are talking about 2-3EC runoff concentration if not more by the time you tried to fix the problem.

Your plant(s) locked out and you attempted to fix the problem by adding more salts/nutrients/water as method of fix, but roots had already stopped taking water due to EC and pH spiking.

Next time you experience such issue(s), I would recommend you to flush your grow with 10-20% base nutrient solution and measure runoff until it matches your input more or less. Pots have to dry up before you even consider watering again. Water minimal and allow roots to do their work and just work from there up. Never use water only, this will only make things worse and delays recovery time.


This can and will take 7-14 days for the plant to recover.

​

 

[Rabbi]

No way root rot was the origin of problem here. We are talking about 2-3EC runoff concentration if not more by the time you tried to fix the issue/looking at leaves.

Your plant(s) locked out and you attempted to fix the problem by adding more salts/nutrients/water as method of fix, but roots had already stopped taking water due to over feeding and EC spiking.

Next time you experience such issue(s), I would recommend you to flush your grow with 10-20% base nutrient solution and measure runoff until it matches your input more or less. Pots have to dry up before you even consider watering again. Water minimal and allow roots to do their work and just work from there up. Never use water only, this will only make things worse and delays recovery time.


This can and will take 7-14 days for the plant to recover.

​

No offense but you have no idea what you're talking about.

I did not "attempt to fix the problem by adding more salts/nutrients/water as method of fix" and YES, root rot was and still is the problem.

 

[Rabbi]

Here's what my mothers look like, for those who seem to be doubting my root rot issues.

 

[LAION]

No offense but you have no idea what you're talking about.

I did not "attempt to fix the problem by adding more salts/nutrients/water as method of fix" and YES, root rot was and still is the problem.

Sorry. Thought you were growing in coco coir. Blurred clay pellets got me and honestly I did not bother to look further from pictures. I saw this thread on the side-bar.

I can only speak for coco medium and everything I said is still stands when it comes to coco as medium. Sorry again, but no need to be rude. If you knew what you were talking about you would not be here looking for help.

 

[Rabbi]

Sorry. Thought you were growing in coco coir. Blurred clay pellets got me and honestly I did not bother to look further from pictures. I saw this thread on the side-bar.

I can only speak for coco medium and everything I said is still correct if you are using coco coir as medium. Sorry again, but no need to be rude. If you knew what you were talking about you would not be here looking for help.

My bad buddy, didn't mean to come off as rude, just got a little butt hurt I guess when you made assumptions that weren't true lol. My apologies to ya bro.

 

[LAION]

My bad buddy, didn't mean to come off as rude, just got a little butt hurt I guess when you made assumptions that weren't true lol. My apologies to ya bro.

All good. I understand your frustration. Could have corrected me when I was talking about medium drying up.

Have you considered going coco/soil?

 

[Rabbi]

All good. I understand your frustration. Could have corrected me when I talked about medium drying up.

Have you considered going coco/soil?

lol, well in all fairness over watering happens tons in hydro too.

I've never tried coco tbh but I absolutely hated soil.

This is the first time I've ever had real root issues so never really had a reason to switch to something else. I've enjoyed hydro up to this point.

 

[siftedunity]

do you have an update?? it would be cool to see how this panned out for you..

 

[40AmpstoFreedom]

Butthead, "hheuh. Dude." "You got pythium."
Beavis, "Yeah, yeah, yeah, hehehuh Yeah. Pythium."

 

[madalasatori]

Looks like c02 issue to me

 

[Lyfespan]

Here's what my mothers look like, for those who seem to be doubting my root rot issues.


View Image

wow this doesn't look like any type of feed issue, but rather fungus, from anaerobic bacteria. bet that mom smells like a dirty fish tank.

2 possible ways to go, overcome bad bacteria with good, or kill everything with peroxide and hopes the extra oxygen helps carry plant through.

 

[Lyfespan]

take clones of that mom if you dont wanna loose her

 

[Lyfespan]

Looks like c02 issue to me

check out his roots, even 10,000 ppm on co2 cant mess with roots below wterline

 

[beta]

Looks like c02 issue to me

Don't bother dude, he is not hearing it.

 

[beta]

check out his roots, even 10,000 ppm on co2 cant mess with roots below wterline

My suspicion is that his gas based C02 generator is not completely combusting his NG, which causes severe problems that I experienced first hand. I told OP all about it, and he doesn't even want to consider that it's a possibility.

Here's a thread on the problem over at THCF, not that it matters.

https://bit.ly/2UzoT5T