can neem seed meal influence taste?

[waveguide]

this thread pretty much keeps turning into "woah there's something wrong on the internet!"

if someone is a douche, you ain't gonna fix it. leave them to their fate (apparent to some, not to others and you ain't gonna fix that either) and be a model of addressing forward moving points.

please.. please help prevent diarroeah thread.

 

[Weird]

Heya Weird..

Off topic.. I remember your posts about using nighttime temperature differentials to increase resin. Is this a technique you still work with?

yes but it doesn't increase resin as much as influence its composition.

Outdoors the differential of night time temp, combined with dew and sun also offered more of a visual differential. IMHE it lends to potency, but It is very strain dependent, it is not a technique I invented just something I read about and observed thereafter.

I only stumbled upon it because in the early 90s I used to thermo regulate with outside air. after don't thermo-regulate for it in my room. Some plants hate it some love it, conversely some plants like a warmer environment than would be considered the norm.

I personally grow plants that like that differential in the winter and more sats and sat leaning cuts in the warmer months. Less room regulation for me.

As for the bolded quote,
Those flavor enhancers seem to be sugars and fruit/plant extracts and/or extracted terpenes. If they actually change the flavor, does that put a question mark on the idea of what plants can and can not uptake, or do you think it can be explained by the enhancer's effects on microbiology?

Well I think it is a confusing topic because the plant has several methods of uptake.

In a completely natural process the plant produces exudates that tell the soil microbiology what it needs and the biology responds, as well as biology outside the plants influences constantly cycling components of the soil food web.

Kinda like a buffet where a plant in a healthy environment has everything it has evolved to expect and require for optimal natural expression.

Conversely there are some components of plants and man made chemicals and other organic substances that can effect a plant directly, that is it can be taken up without any complex relationship. They are available in ionic form. Some organic substances like salt in excess will kill life regardless of its sources.

It is the natural process that makes it most available to the plant nutrition in a way it has evolved to understands best.

The variables become pretty overwhelming.

Modern gardening techniques where born from accident and developments for maximizing biomass in a artificial environment.

Both techniques sit at the separate side of the spectrum in as far as they work.

In the reverse engineering of plant nutrition scientist reverse engineered the minimum environment for biomass production.

We haven't discovered enough of the underlying mechanisms to know the true differentials in all regards. This is where science is in complete.

Neem meal as are many other natural components is broken down and processed by microbiology so its not a direct interaction.

Science has been putting in great efforts to enhances what happens in a truly balanced natural system because they haven't been able to completely replicated it.

If you look at the chemicals science has developed in for the use of processed food you can see there is great evidence science has taken nutrition a step backwards from a healthy natural paradigm resulting in many of our diseases today.

diabetes is a good example.

I find the artificial analog unsatisfactory to a natural one, optimally expressed side by side.

I have had enough personal exposure to side by side results to come up with some very conclusive decision.

Neem meal even late in flower does not affect taste, but if you need it then, you are using it in a reactive ohh shit I have an issue manner. It works that way when used appropriately.

But its not the way it is normally used in a healthy organic system so the fear of its use becomes unfounded.

You can make a foliar from it, and as I a said if you put something on the leaf all bets are off in this regard. Doesn't mean its a bad foliar.

The context of how you use things in a natural system which is far more dynamic and thus different than how you use it in a artificial one.

I haven't used the sweeteners but I have smoked weed from people that I simply said you used a sweetener (i have grown the same many times) and they said yea

It tasted like the flavor sweetener that they had used. So as far as experientially there seems to be some way to influence taste directly. it was like water with a flavoring agent versus a glass of real juice, organics brings out a wider range of flavors, undertones and overtones and living soil expands up on that and even offers pre established microbiology that jump starts resin via SARS activation (my observational hypothesis at least) and I am not the only one who has similar life experience doing the same thing getting like results. I am willing to wager there are more interactions as well.

Not that organic amendments don't influence taste, it is that the infleunce isn't direct.

Organics grown with manures doesn't taste like shit but different manures really infleunce taste differently.

Bat and seagull quanos influence taste but not in any direct way but differently than cow or chicken manures.

That's why many organics guys go for a diverse combination. But the correlations aren't direct and some are more subtle than others and they can have cumulative effects.

Most of the "cutting" edge product from aptus to tanio exploit this premise. Power of biodynamics, of organics and the organic process.

I enjoy it thoroughly, the efforts and the results.

Hope this helps

 

[Kygiacomo!!!]

Potassium silicate does not emulsify neem oil.

Polysorbate 80. Use that or something like it to emulsify neem.

Thank spurr for that little tid bit.

i just put it in a blender and then pour it into the container that i have aloe vera in and shake..never had a issue with it in the blender,but a pain in the ass to do the shake shake shake method,but im new to neem this is first year i started useing it on a few indoor plants ( not cannabis) to control fungas gnats
where can i get the polysorbate 80?
i have this product as well that i just got recently i havent tested it yet though bc its only a 8oz bottle and i want to wait till i do a foliar this spring to see how it will work

 

[bigshrimp]

Originally Posted by rasputin View Post
Potassium silicate does not emulsify neem oil.

Polysorbate 80. Use that or something like it to emulsify neem.

Thank spurr for that little tid bit.

But i seen it dun, i was there wit mine own eyes.

 

[Kygiacomo!!!]

found many posts on a search about the success rate of potassium silicate as well as seeing it my self to bigshrimp..i happen to have the exact same recipe as u do..there is many people with success postings talking about potassium silicate works as a emulsifyer

"As inexpensive as silica/ProTekt is, I just "prefer" to use this as the emulsifier, and aloe as the emulsifier - only as the surfactant. I will say that I've never tried using aloe as the surfactant. It really works this way? I didn't think it did - the time I mixed the neem and aloe first before the silica it seemed to make a mess. If I remember correctly Elle Dee told me to mix the neem and silica first, (in a cup of water) and then the aloe last just because of this.

Then again I didn't boil it either... I thought heat degrades neem, which is why it is (at least the Ahimsa brand) cold pressed, and not extracted with heat...

Always lots to learn!

My Lily of the Desert brand aloe says on the bottle that it contains over 70 biologically active microorganisms. I wouldn't think that boiling this would not be good for them either?

Now that I've used it a bunch I just love the ProTekt silica as my emulsifier. As soon as you stir it up the neem oil is emulsified. By only using the recommended 1 teaspoon per gallon that jug is going to last about forever.

Since I started using the Ahimsa neem oil, ProTekt and aloe recipe I haven't seen one single mite or fungus gnat - nor do I expect to."

 

[stoned-trout]

not sure..i do believe different inputs in soil can affect taste tho...for sure

 

[bigshrimp]

No boiling required xD, just mix the emulsified neem/protekt into lukewarm water.

I do notice a certain taste when using neem meal, sort of a rich lung expanding feeling?
Pretty tough to pinpoint to a single ingredient though.

 

[Weird]

So I presented some science that concluded a compound of neem is systemic and translocates throughout the plant. I then opined that "we do not know if neem seed meal influences the taste of cannabis" (topic of this thread...funny thing). Weird obviously has taken the opposing position (believing neem DOES NOT influence the taste) but when asked for the basis of his opinion, he cites ROLS and soil food web concept.

I just want to emphasize one point--after all that senseless babble, Weird has yet to produce one iota of science or link to a professional that supports much yet shares his opinion. (He is on his own island on this one).

Now, his condescending position is--if you do not grow like Weird (ROLS)...you ain't shit. Got it, now we are playing the narcissistic card. BTW, ROLS is a minority in the growing world--"the exception to the rule is not the norm".

At least I have an open mind...and I certainly RESPECT other points of view/opinion, but "opinions" are not "fact". I believe there are many roads to the same destination and there is no wrong or right way--just my way and your way...and sometimes we disagree. I don't see the need to force one's growing style on others. IMHO, it is those that are unsure of themselves or insecure in their thinking that demand others to "conform" with their actions/views....I say live and let live!

BTW...when someone runs out of facts--sometimes they take it to the next level with pointless personal attacks. Guess Weird ran out of gas--as he is going "personal and making shit up" which is WAY OFF TOPIC and almost "troll-like". Who needs the truth when yah got a vivid imagination and a propensity to pontificate? LOL...too funny!

All this hostility and hatred, who needs it?...bad vibes I say!

A repost of what I originally said--


This is what Weird disputes I guess.

No, what happened is you asked a question that if you had applied any experiential observation to, would give you an answer.

Replace the word neem meal with molasses.

You ever use molasses? plenty of people have. are there minerals or other things in molasses that are taken up as it, taste an all?

Do you taste the magnesium, sulfur or other ingredients?

See what you were implying is that because azadactrine sp* is systemic that the other parts of neem might be.

If you have any experience with organics or have read about the organic system you would know it doesn't work that way, causation is indirect because organic matter goes through a series of natural processes.

Of the few compounds we have knowledge of like macro and micro nutrients in ionic form, which effect taste directly?

Does sulfur taste like sulfur? can you grow good resin with out?

I simply asked you to think for yourself since science hasn't completely answered the question and our own experiencing are the most powerful tool we have in finding this information out.

You immediately critiqued it because you didn't understand it, that is not on me.

The fact is you have started conflicts in the organic threads time and again because you question people's experiences base don your google searches.

IMHO you smoked some weed, thought about the uptake of azadactrine sp* and thought you would change the grow scene by showing us something we didn't know

Then when the logic started to unravel you get all upset and argue further, but without any experience of your own to back it up.

Please show me the value add of your constant question peoples experiences based on what you search on google

It is a real bunk old school method of questioning people "called banging them up" until they give up the "right" information

your not trying to make a sale your trying ot uncover the truth

i gave the truth your ego is just too fragile to accept it

 

[EclipseFour20]

Don't feed the troll...or he will psychoanalyze you and make statements only to incite a personal response (while contributing zero to the discussion).

Weird--out of the blue, you try to stir shit up and that's OK; you are entitled to do what you want, but I really am not in the mood to play in the sandbox with you today. So let me try saying it this way:

1. All you offered in this thread is 100% "opinion" (which I respect, but disagree with). You have used personal experiences instead of sound arguments with compelling evidence. You have presented "anecdotal evidence" (personal experiences) to support your conclusions--zero science or any concurring opinions (compelling evidence). In other words, your argument is not based on "fact" (something that can be verified or tested) but based on your "opinion" (what happened to you).

2. Your analysis fails to account for the differences between individuals...differences like: age, ailments, immunity, medical history, tolerances, allergies, etc. The foundation of your argument is: If it did not happen to me...then it is "impossible" or "will not/can noto" happen to anyone else (as in "we are all the same"). I reject that logic. I believe we are all different, "one size does not fit all", and each of us possess different levels of "sensory capacities".

So Weird, please stop being so negative and get with the spirit of things. OK?

BTW...my original post--which I still stand behind:

Weird, Thanks for sharing your rates...and no one is discounting the benefits of Neem--just trying to determine if it influences the taste of cannabis (the topic of this thread).

And my logic says...if something it is in the plant (be it systemic or residual)--then detectable levels most likely will be in the flower. This study is rather definitive proof that Neem has systemic abilities and that root applications are almost as powerful as foliar sprays.

Now...what about cannabis? Does neem influence the taste? I don't think we really know.
...

I truly believe we really don't know if it does or not. We can speculate all day, but without definitive proof/evidence (fact)....then all we have is "stoner logic" (opinion).

 

[Team Microbe]

Triple Action & 70% neem are made from hydrophobic clarified extract. No, thanks.

Pure, cold pressed neem oil is where it's at. Why would I want an extract that is missing a very important part, the azadirachtin, when I can get the whole enchilada? Same deal with buying just azadirachtin products that are missing the oil. Check the labels when buying neem, some companies have become skilled at wording it in such a way to confuse even experienced buyers.

And no, it doesn't mess with the taste/flavor. Neither do guanos. That's some bro science gardening myth bullshit.

^ Listen to Rasputin ^