can neem seed meal influence taste?

[EclipseFour20]

Weird, lets just say in order for you to "disagree", you have to "put words into my mouth" or have to make shit up as you go--nothing you said I said..did I say. Not interested in getting into a pissing contest with you...THAT'S BORING! Since I am closer to 65 than I am to 60--let's just say, "been there, done that...no thanks."

But your are funny, when asked to substantiate "your claims"--you bless us with long winded replies that are "generous" with "opinions" but extremely "charitable" with "facts/science".

As to science of neem's other compounds and plant residual levels, I believe I covered that when I said: "Logic says--if something is in the plant (aztadirachtin residue) at the time of harvest, then flowers should also have detectable levels of aztadirachtin. Therefor, all the other properties of Neem (many we do not fully understand) could also reside in harvested flowers...."

OK? You speak as if "we know" and I say "we don't know"--if neem seed meal influences the taste of cannabis. All we really have is "he said/she said"...aka anecdotal evidence (not too trustworthy).

 

[Weird]

If you are swift enough to figure out neem meal contains aztadirachtin then you can figure out what else is in it and use google to serve you up what science says about them individually in regards to plant uptake and nutrition, and we both know this.

That either means there is no conclusive information or you are too lazy to google further for articles, which is ironic since you trust more than testimony from people with real life experience.

At some point you may come to find that either the information does not exist OR IS PROPRIETARY.

However, if you understood the food web and plant uptake from organic and non organic standpoints you would understand that in regards to organic matter not everything is readily available to a plant.

The food soil web breaks down the organic matter making what you put in the soil available, albeit indirectly. Some chemicals in the organic matter like aztadirachtin are readily available.

The soil transforms organic matter through a series of different natural processes, and as such certain things don't translate directly, i.e. if you squeeze orange juice into your soil your not going to get orange bud.

if you really think it works that way, then try it and be the best grower on the block.

if your logical assumptions are put into real scenarios and make no sense then your logic is faulty

observations in real life put against scientific observations can often lead to a different understanding

Anyone can carouse the internet, regurgitate what they read, and defend their logic based on it.

When you have a life of practical experience you have a different lens upon which you view that information.

If you want to find a DIRECT correlation between organic uptake and taste, go for it.

Not every organic compound works directly like a specific chemical compound, you have to get past your paradigm that this is how organic systems work to understand how organic matter relates to plant growth.

Read teaming with microbes, read teaming with nutrients, stop approaching plant growth from a scientific lens, its primitive and evolving towards balanced living systems, not componential chemical controls.

 

[Weird]

 

[EclipseFour20]

Weird, how does all your "hot air" & pointless babble relate to the topic of this thread? But I am glad you recently discovered the soil web concept...it works great, especially outside. Unfortunately not all those concepts are 100% transferable for indoor container gardens, especially when the grow medium is "fresh" for each grow.

 

[Weird]

lol dude you make up your own reality, there is a reason the ROLS guys took of for greener pastures (literally)

I have been running the same soil for over a year without tilling it, and before that, since 08' I had been building my soils from used soil.

My pots are filled with microbiology including worms
worm

worm shit

ROLS (middle row of plants removed) garden

GG4 in ROLS

Stardawg in ROLS

 

[Former Guest]

Stop being insulting.

 

[Former Guest]

I hope the ROLS gurus stay there personally. Greener pastures smh, less arrogant shitty responses. I'm so sick of organic people fighting over high almighty attitudes, the only group of people to not only fight with others but fight among themselves. One forum is good but the other one where you have to fill out a application for approval? I asked one question and got a shitty response about how I shouldn't ask questions about how to pick out amendments based on sustainability and got banned?! That forum was dead and no one talks. I am much happier with the other where people are civil and disàgree politely! The bus is broken.

 

[Weird]

You don't get it

many people simply put in the effort, they put there time and effort in to see for themselves.

when you challenge personal experience with something you read, that is you don't have any success or failure t forming your own experience, only going by hearsay how is that building up a community or coming to a understanding using "science"?

Put in your due diligence and come to your own conclusions if your too critical to trust experience over what you read and prove me wrong with actual real life testimony.

And guess what, when you do you still might be proven wrong.

If your ego is so fragile you need to spoon fed and nursed like a child then you need to go to romper room, because I refuse to baby sit and nfn your game will always be throttled if your genius is too delicate to be critiqued.

I have used neem meal extensively, but I know you know that.

 

[Mikell]

Weird, I generally like your posts and agree with a few of the points you've made here. That said, most of your replies are barely relevant, particularly the SFW/bud pictures.

This is an open discussion as far as I can tell, all growing styles are relevant.

LLB, on point again. I could care less where a bunch of holier than thou soap boxers end up. They are the biggest hurdle holding back wider acceptance of organic growing. Leave the derision/mockery, rigid idealogy and superior attitude to the likes of Coot.

get real tired when dealing with people who aren't willing to open their mind to my reality

FIFA. I suspect that's the reason many of the preachers buggered off. You aren't coming off cocky or wordy, you're coming off as self righteous and arrogant.

Organic is a great style of growing, but it is not the be-all end-all of horticulture, nor is this forum's motto "Give me organics or give me death". It's a blend of everything, for better or worse.

Used to be (part of ROLS). These days I'd like to think I've thrown ideologies aside. They seemed to be interfering with learning. Reality is so big we almost always need a lens to view it through, but I haven't found any lens large enough to encompass its complexities.

Burbank summing it up for me three pages ago

 

[Weird]

lol how many of you are here looking for answers before you put in the effort to find out yourself?

if your here for the efforts of another person's labors at least have to common courtesy not to argue them with irrelevant answers because you don't have

A) complete scientific understanding

B) any of your own practical experience

you can figure out the answer using logic and simple algebraic Boolean equations if you don't like the answers I gave.

I told you my experiences and how I would test for myself if I was unsure and I gave the links that lead to all necessary scientific information available on teh web.

If you don't have experience or a comprehensive understanding, well I guess I sound cocky, especially when it boils down to the same user and the same irrelevant arguments.

Got trolled hard in teh eagle20 thread and some of the people on my ass don't make the same practices

If I shut my mouth and walked way like a pussy face maybe some people wouldn't have bothered to question exactly what they are doing

Now i'm some markets like Washington state you can't participate of in the legal market if you do grow using those practices

One thing about me, I talk from successful experiences

the ROLS guys put their time in and shared the results and got people questioning them because they read something somewhere or failed at emulating the same process

its all good people wanting to learn, but you don't have to be juvenile about it

 

[Former Guest]

I was more talking to eclipse as I very much enjoy reading weird's posts. I actually take his side on the foliar taste argument of neem. I don't need to read giant threads filled with condescending remarks made to people which has really taken away from the thread making it hard to focus on the meat and that attitude has inspired someone to regurgitate the entire thread on another forum without the bullshit. All this info is online using university sites which is where these guys regurgitate a lot of stuff. You don't need a guru but nice helpful ones are much appreciated. I've found a good home here with good people. The grass is greener on my side. Throw down a blanket, light a doobie and kick off your shoes. We sing Kum By Yah and hold hands

 

[Mikell]

More of that condescending, insulting tone. Lovely.

Adding your experience to the discussion is welcome, though one can see it's hardly objective. Taking it two pages off topic with rambling, irrelevant idealogy? Pointless.

I'm monitoring this thread out of general interest, not some desire to seek answers I can not provide myself. If that was the goal, time well wasted.

The ROLS guys did put in the time, and provided their experiences for the greater good. Then belittled and looked down on anyone not "organic" enough for them.

That went over well.

 

[Weird]

Even professors at Cornell are dispute the plausibility of LOS indoor because of a paradigm, regardless of proof, that's why I apologized before my rant prior.

If you don't intimately understand the evolution of why we grow the way we do in American you wouldn't understand how powerful the paradigm against it is (living soil), and why. Even then you might have a hard time getting past it.

Not everything that is counter intuitive is wrong (LOS vs traditional/transitional gardening)

you can liken it to the differences between physics and quantum physics. Just because something seems to be counter intuitive that it actually is, it becomes all about relative context.

None the less maybe someone could share with me anything you put in the soil that expresses itself just like it goes in?

I guess the green nitrogen solution from GH is an example, does nitrogen tastes green? does green taste like an apple?

How about molasses? or cow shit? how about anything you present to the rootzone regardless of how you garden.

MAYBE just MAYBE some of the flavor enhancers come through as promised, I wouldn't know I have never had the need to use them. At this point I would be ashamed if I needed them.

See if you have ANY experience with any growing you have some basis to start forming an experiential opinion.

Don't need an education to create scenarios that will help you figure this one out, or google, or years of experience.

Grow for a few decades and you will have a tremendous wealth of past experience to use as a litmus to this type of comparative logic.

You don't need to be educated to use algebraic thinking to come up with conclusions based on your experiences, and this is how science gives us answer, except they have far more limited test fieldsw/subjects and a collective body of work.

If every one got past the whole ego phase we could put together a collective of data more powerful than science could replicate but you know with pot heads and growers you tend to get a bit of isolated folks that have a hard time playing nice in the first place.

 

[Former Guest]

They're not inventors or creators of something new. They just took basic stuff farmers outdoors do and brought it inside and I can see how that would be frowned upon and misunderstood but you don't need em or to read the thread which I have barely taken glance after reading the attitude displayed. Google is god. Hehe

There is a full moon going on right now. I've felt rather emotional. Perhaps we all just need to smoke a bowl. Please.

 

[Mikell]

This is painful.

Maybe a tye-die shirt and a few blotters of acid will open up the doors of perception and allow me to pretend I've gotten past my ego.

 

[waveguide]

Your use of the words "magically" and "secret" is telling. This process is neither magical or secret. I think you are confusing saponification with emulsification.

Your post actually supports my point because not only were you incapable of reproducing the result, you also stopped doing it altogether. I have to think that is because you noticed it didn't work.

The two times it did appear to work was likely due to the alkalinity of your solution, not the potassium silicate itself.

contributor

stopped spraying about 10 weeks ago and have put oil in the soil mix since with good results, maybe my spraying days are over lol.

 

[Weird]

mikell

takes 2 to tango, they didn't leave their little place in the world to stir the pot with others i.e. go into other threads on the site. They simply told people who said your doing it wrong or questioned their logic where they could stick it. Not promoting the behavior but when that is the most common result for your contributions it gets played quick.

see when some people smoke pot the inflate and internalize what they read and make it as if it is a personal attack on all their being

this thread is about neem meal which is a regular amendment in my toolbox, ive used it for many, many harvests and in many scenarios, it is a simple no-brainer if you read other peoples use of it or tried it yourself.

have you?

eclipse need a back up cause you think he is being bullied?

you like many others discount the effect of their own being, the bias of the collection of all they have experienced and the manner of how they processed it so powerfully that you think your opinion has more merit than another persons actual experience.

My guess the thought you might have an ego problem offends you.

unless you have actual data to add to the equation your opinion does not trump actual results.

using that as a basis of an argument is never productive, if so please detail how?

when someone has tons of interpretations but very little real life experiential information and then they get butt hurt about it they get all defensive its gets ugly like this.

same song

same dance

Had the same reaction in the eagle20 thread. Didn't start out condescending, just like it started out civilly here.

Been around long enough you get to see the same patterns time and again

ain't hippy speak its reality, one you can deny but not one you can avoid.

 

[EclipseFour20]

So I presented some science that concluded a compound of neem is systemic and translocates throughout the plant. I then opined that "we do not know if neem seed meal influences the taste of cannabis" (topic of this thread...funny thing). Weird obviously has taken the opposing position (believing neem DOES NOT influence the taste) but when asked for the basis of his opinion, he cites ROLS and soil food web concept.

I just want to emphasize one point--after all that senseless babble, Weird has yet to produce one iota of science or link to a professional that supports much yet shares his opinion. (He is on his own island on this one).

Now, his condescending position is--if you do not grow like Weird (ROLS)...you ain't shit. Got it, now we are playing the narcissistic card. BTW, ROLS is a minority in the growing world--"the exception to the rule is not the norm".

At least I have an open mind...and I certainly RESPECT other points of view/opinion, but "opinions" are not "fact". I believe there are many roads to the same destination and there is no wrong or right way--just my way and your way...and sometimes we disagree. I don't see the need to force one's growing style on others. IMHO, it is those that are unsure of themselves or insecure in their thinking that demand others to "conform" with their actions/views....I say live and let live!

BTW...when someone runs out of facts--sometimes they take it to the next level with pointless personal attacks. Guess Weird ran out of gas--as he is going "personal and making shit up" which is WAY OFF TOPIC and almost "troll-like". Who needs the truth when yah got a vivid imagination and a propensity to pontificate? LOL...too funny!

All this hostility and hatred, who needs it?...bad vibes I say!

A repost of what I originally said--

Weird, Thanks for sharing your rates...and no one is discounting the benefits of Neem--just trying to determine if it influences the taste of cannabis (the topic of this thread).

And my logic says...if something it is in the plant (be it systemic or residual)--then detectable levels most likely will be in the flower. This study is rather definitive proof that Neem has systemic abilities and that root applications are almost as powerful as foliar sprays.

Now...what about cannabis? Does neem influence the taste? I don't think we really know.
...

This is what Weird disputes I guess.

 

[hyposomniac]

<snipped and bolded> ...None the less maybe someone could share with me anything you put in the soil that expresses itself just like it goes in?

I guess the green nitrogen solution from GH is an example, does nitrogen tastes green? does green taste like an apple?

How about molasses? or cow shit? how about anything you present to the rootzone regardless of how you garden.

MAYBE just MAYBE some of the flavor enhancers come through as promised, I wouldn't know I have never had the need to use them. At this point I would be ashamed if I needed them.

Heya Weird..

Off topic.. I remember your posts about using nighttime temperature differentials to increase resin. Is this a technique you still work with?

As for the bolded quote,
Those flavor enhancers seem to be sugars and fruit/plant extracts and/or extracted terpenes. If they actually change the flavor, does that put a question mark on the idea of what plants can and can not uptake, or do you think it can be explained by the enhancer's effects on microbiology?

 

[Mikell]

Hah, I was wasting time typing out a reply to your rambling, when I read an imaginary note I leave on the monitor.

Don't feed the trolls.