Can any Breeder/pheno hunter explain to me WTF is going on??

[little-soldier]

You've said multiple times that NObody seems to experience the same as you. That the clones are different than the seed plant.

I don't know where you get that from. It's pretty well documented and as far as I know almost Everybody experiences that the clones are different than the seed plants. There is so much information about this out there.

It is so well known that nany people who are serious about pheno hunting don't even run the seed plants and only run the clones since then they know what they will be working with for real as they continue to clone the line.

Now what your saying about the clones being worse, well that's subjective. They are usually just different. Could be better could be worse. Just depends on the genetic.

Usually clones flower faster and are a bit more potent in my experience. But it's different for every genetic, how the clones translate from the seed plants. Some are very similar some are very very different.

And from then forward the successive clone generations should be very similar to each other. As you said your experience is.

From everything you said your experience seems to line up just fine with what's very well documented and generally known.

And there has been some great and very interesting info in this thread. So thank you for starting it. I had heard about and considered seed plant maturity before but hadn't done a deep dive on it yet

Please show me where this is well documented because I’ve been growing and on forum for pretty much 2 decades and see people taking cuttings from their seeds everywhere and never seen anyone mention this

 

[i.love.scotch]

Please show me where this is well documented because I’ve been growing and on forum for pretty much 2 decades and see people taking cuttings from their seeds everywhere and never seen anyone mention this

Listen to some podcasts with breeders, follow some good growers doing pheno hunting on IG. It gets talked about a lot. Forums are generally not great for getting technical info on growing. Because you'll get a dozen different opinions every which way on every topic. If you search your issue up on forums you get a bunch of noise about genetic drift, what part of the plant you clone from, environment, all kinds of stuff. Even your thread here is just full of random info that isn't really to do with what your asking.

I've just heard so many growers talking IRL and online about tossing the seed plants and only flowering the clones that I guess I took it for granted that everyone knew this. And I've experienced it many times myself that the clones express differently than the seed mother.

And it is also known that if you have a seed plant that shows a little hermi that the clones often won't have the problem. This is especially true with the Blueberry line. People have thrown away probably thousands of Blueberry seed ladies cause they throw nanners but my experience is the clones often do not.

Along with these differences comes a difference in expression as well. Even from clone every run is going to be a little bit different. No two runs are the same. And to me the difference between a seed plant and clone just amplify that.

I don't know the science behind it. If you want to dig into that start by looking into why some outdoor growers prefer seed plants for their huge trees vs clones. They say it's to do with a seed plant having a tap root but I think there are probably other contributing factors as well.

Overall 'age' of the genetic certainly plays a part.

At the very least if your seed plant is not sexually mature and you flower it you are going to have a very different flowering time than a sexually mature plant since it will take a lot longer to respond to the transition than a clone. There's a whole lot of hormones and things at work there. It's all very complex.

Also try reading about hazes and why people often recommend flowering a clone instead of the seed plant for long flowering sativas. That could be a good rabbit hole to go down.

If you've been growing for 2 decades, is this a problem you've always had? If it's something suddenly new then that's a different topic entirely and surely something to do with your inputs or specific new genetic your working with.

LIke I said, I've had some genetics where the difference between clone and seed plant is minimal and others where it's very noticeable.

 

[little-soldier]

Listen to some podcasts with breeders, follow some good growers doing pheno hunting on IG. It gets talked about a lot. Forums are generally not great for getting technical info on growing. Because you'll get a dozen different opinions every which way on every topic. If you search your issue up on forums you get a bunch of noise about genetic drift, what part of the plant you clone from, environment, all kinds of stuff. Even your thread here is just full of random info that isn't really to do with what your asking.

I've just heard so many growers talking IRL and online about tossing the seed plants and only flowering the clones that I guess I took it for granted that everyone knew this. And I've experienced it many times myself that the clones express differently than the seed mother.

And it is also known that if you have a seed plant that shows a little hermi that the clones often won't have the problem. This is especially true with the Blueberry line. People have thrown away probably thousands of Blueberry seed ladies cause they throw nanners but my experience is the clones often do not.

Along with these differences comes a difference in expression as well. Even from clone every run is going to be a little bit different. No two runs are the same. And to me the difference between a seed plant and clone just amplify that.

I don't know the science behind it. If you want to dig into that start by looking into why some outdoor growers prefer seed plants for their huge trees vs clones. They say it's to do with a seed plant having a tap root but I think there are probably other contributing factors as well.

Overall 'age' of the genetic certainly plays a part.

At the very least if your seed plant is not sexually mature and you flower it you are going to have a very different flowering time than a sexually mature plant since it will take a lot longer to respond to the transition than a clone. There's a whole lot of hormones and things at work there. It's all very complex.

Also try reading about hazes and why people often recommend flowering a clone instead of the seed plant for long flowering sativas. That could be a good rabbit hole to go down.

If you've been growing for 2 decades, is this a problem you've always had? If it's something suddenly new then that's a different topic entirely and surely something to do with your inputs or specific new genetic your working with.

LIke I said, I've had some genetics where the difference between clone and seed plant is minimal and others where it's very noticeable.

So true what you said about seedling showing hermies and not the clones, I have experienced it a few times myself. I have grown bag seeds once and I have cloned a plant that had more than just bananas, it had a couple of male flowers at the bottom of the plant but wanted to keep it anyways. I made 100 clones and none had any male flowers and not even a single banana. Finally someone is talking sense here lol. no offence to everyone else its just that I felt like some people were just shoving their opinions down my throat and taking me for an imbecile. I will look more into it Mr. Scotch lol. Maybe I should start drinking again. Being sober is clouding my judgement

 

[Crooked8]

Maybe this will help. I don't know, but neither do you so maybe consider it. Did you get dark heart clones mixed in with the seedlings?Outwest we are experiencing a plague. Drk hart is closed .

Dark heart spread the viroid imo more than almost anyone

 

[maryjaneismyfre]

Dark heart spread the viroid imo more than almost anyone

I'm well removed from Dark heart, other side the planet..and we been importing seeds and clones since day one...I can see it in our gardens going back to mid 2000's. I had seed from late 90s OG seedlot, whether it was the "pre98" lot, or an s1 from SFV or one of her sisters..It was the real deal, I think by the third or fourth time we ran her she was already on the downhill. That was by 2006/7. This has been around F'king us since long before dark heart was an idea in someones head, I can assure you.

Also little soldier, don't get me wrong..you're no imbecile, not trying to shove any opinions..I was for a long time ignorant of this, like many others, then aware and managing it, but now that I have actual clean material to grow side by side, it blows me away...Since we have been measuring, it is no longer about opinion for us, but matters of fact. The effects of ones metrics, we are getting screwed, some are more aware, and most are less aware...we are throwing large %'s away, long before one can see the effects of this, its stealing your bud size. This is so widespread, I cannot stress enough, that it is a hidden filter through which we have all been seeing our plants, the variability one of the main effects as different plants fight different viral loads. The viroid is not called LATENT for no reason. It can sit dormant and one can not see signs for quite some time after infection, or IME on low viral load. It is an uncomfortable truth, but if ones been buying and germing seeds, or buying clones for the last decade, one would have encountered it, there is no way any of us would not have encountered it. And the shit is stable, and spreads like wildfire..so the chances of it being in everything soon enough is very high. And I see this going back almost 20 yrs..it's not rocket science, one can see the maths play out very quickly where this would dominate the landscape. and then one looks at the grows of the last 20 years and its clear..but dont worry..its calmag..LOL

I'm reading a very good thread on rollitup from 2021 thats the same parallel, and they reference threads on IC where we were spending years trying to figure out what was up..but we are long past the age of denial. Once you actually understand how this has skewed our perceptions and experiences of growing weed over the last 20 years, without us knowing..shocking.

 

[Verdant Whisperer]

The answer to your question is because when you take clones the plants hormonal profile changes and will be different from the mother, the older the clone probably will have more characteristics of the original mother plant. the hormone levels of the plants are linked with the production of terpenes, cannabinoids, and flavonoids ect. and that is why the clones taste different.

1. Auxins:
   • Mother Plant: Well-established auxin distribution for balanced growth.
   • Clone: Initially, lower auxin levels due to the absence of a developed root system. However, as roots develop, auxin distribution stabilizes.
2. Cytokinins:
   • Mother Plant: Balanced cytokinin levels for cell division and differentiation.
   • Clone: Initially, potential variations in cytokinin levels until the clone establishes its own growth pattern.
3. Gibberellins:
   • Mother Plant: Balanced gibberellin levels for controlled stem elongation.
   • Clone: Initial differences may occur, potentially influencing the stature and structure of the clone.
4. Abscisic Acid:
   • Mother Plant: Baseline levels with adjustments to environmental stress.
   • Clone: Initial stress response due to cloning process, potentially resulting in altered abscisic acid levels.
5. Ethylene:
   • Mother Plant: Steady ethylene production influenced by environmental factors.
   • Clone: Cloning and transplanting can induce stress, leading to varying ethylene production.
6. Jasmonic Acid and Salicylic Acid:
   • Mother Plant: Baseline levels for defense against pests and pathogens.
   • Clone: Initial differences in response to stress, potentially affecting resistance to stressors.
7. Growth Regulators:
   • Mother Plant: Steady levels of various growth regulators and signaling molecules.
   • Clone: Initial variations may occur, potentially influencing growth and development.

"Remember, these differences are primarily due to environmental factors and the stress of cloning, rather than genetic changes. With proper care, a cloned cannabis plant can stabilize and exhibit characteristics similar to the mother plant over time. It's important to monitor and adjust environmental conditions to promote healthy growth in both mother plants and clones"

* ALSO: I think that the age of plants effects their complexity of terpene profile, for example a short lived plant will have higher levels of what i call base/primary terpenes, ( Limonene, Pinene, Myrcene, and BCP, Phytol), where as the older the plant becomes they will form more complex terpenes i refer to as secondary terpenes. this is because i think when the base terpenes sit around with each other long enough they form into combinations of themselves. heres an example of some of my thoughts how they might combine:

Alpha-pinene – [Primary] Fresh Woody Scent, with Earthy undertones.

Limonene - [Primary] - Light, Fresh, and Sweet Citrus Scent

Myrcene - [Primary] - Herbal Scent, with Earthy and Fruity notes.

BCP - [Primary] - Spicy/Woody

Phytol - [Primary] - Floral and Grassy Scent.

Linalool – [Secondary] – Floral and Spicy notes.

Humulene – [Secondary] Woody, Earthy and Spicy.

Ocimene- [Secondary] Herbal, Citrus, and Woody Scents.

Terpinolene – [Secondary] Sweet, Herbal with subtle hints of Woodiness and touches of Citrus.

Beta-Pinene – [Secondary] Earthy, Woody, Piney.

 

[little-soldier]

Next time I grow seeds I will compare clones taken right before the flip (flowering) and reveged clones from a bud. Curious to see if there will be a difference. I usually stay away from revegging because it makes for handicap plants (3 leaf) and seem to keep that trait.

 

[ost]

"To measure, is to know"
Have you tested your plants?

We tested ours, and many others..found some negative, some positive, some low load, some high load. We then later tested roots, our plants, others, all austrian clone nurseries, dutch tissue suppliers, swiss tissue suppliers, dutch seed plants, cali seed plants, our own seed plants from breeding, all dirty unless from seed. I'm not god, but I've been very lucky the last 4 years to be on a scale that most don't have access to see first hand, and I've got resources behind me that I spent my whole life wishing for..Once we started doing root testing, it was clear..we would only find a clean plant sometimes, if freshly germinated from seed and the seed was not infected, and we bleached the seeds before planting, and it was not a high % either.
You can go buy chinese hemp seed on the shelf of your local health shop and test it and there is a very high likelyhood that you will test positive, that is how widespread this is. I do not however see it in the pics from the fields in Afghanistan, but in african fields I can now see it 100% going back to mid 2000's.

I can look back to my big outdoor grows the year after Jorge blew us away with the humboldt "ten pound plants" and I had it then..I can look at pictures of plants in different parts of the half a football field garden that we did the year before that, assumed ah that part of garden soil or light or something not as good..but now i can see clearly in a field where i know all is infected and i can find you high load plants in shade duddng and low load plants in shade looking amazing. I can look to years prior and I see it now in all the seeds or cuts that we got. Once you see it you cant unsee it. I have between 5 and 10 000 of a plant flowering out now that we contract grow.. I took pics earlier..All same clone. varying degrees of infection. Depends on how many plants you do per run, how many moms you have and hence how often replacing them..low numbers and you dont see the one in thousand cant miss me plants, as you might take ten runs to hit that number of plants to see one dud, even though your whole garden may be low load all the time, most are..Run 10000 of a cut and you see ten of them in a field in front of you...and wonder WTF?..Test and you find out and know..its all a numbers game to spot it, till you trained your eye and done enough testing, at which point you assuming anything, is more likely dirty rather than clean.. I'll post some pics later when chance, might change your mind..If not, no skin off my back, you can wake up when its too late like everyone else is, I am just trying to warn you. All the big players still in business, they are well aware already and managing it. Round my parts most unaware still, even most larger licenses rowing circles in the dark wondering why they can never just dial shit in.

Start PCR testing any material you can find, roots if you can take samples..and you quickly see whats up...its insidious shit..it is EVERYWHERE..you been warned..LOL

thanks for the tips on duding and the other changes caused by viroid infestion and such!

 

[maryjaneismyfre]

Next time I grow seeds I will compare clones taken right before the flip (flowering) and reveged clones from a bud. Curious to see if there will be a difference. I usually stay away from revegging because it makes for handicap plants (3 leaf) and seem to keep that trait.

Look at the youtube vid from medical genomics where they talk about the tolerant clone "jamaican lion" that they found..That explains what you, I and others have found about revegging plants and just having sometimes wierd effects. Often in a tolerant strain, the viroid will be produced and sink to the roots, but the plant has a mechanism to keep it there and block it moving up past the roots back to the rest of the plant like it does with most other strains..that "Jamaican lion" clone would test negative in the leaf 3/4 of the time, and negative in the bud, and all the time positive in the roots, and when they let it go post term, over ripe, and let it almost reveg, the lower popcorn bud now built up a high viroid load and all lower bud then tested positive and carried high viroid. So revegging, even with a tolerant variety, if infected, you are almost guaranteed of only getting heavily infected clones from that reveg. Which explains something I've wondered about since loosing the best weed I ever smoked, a chocolope shiskaberry cross, long ago...she revegged fine many times and was so vigorous that I never kept her as a mom, just revegged her each time and kept her for personal smoke, and then one time I harvested her and she was half the flavour as usual and half the kick but still very nice weed, and she never revegged after that, just fell over and died and rotted. She must have picked up something during the few months before. But yeah revegging..Not as effective as I though two years ago LOL..Opinions change as circumstances and evidence dictates.

 

[maryjaneismyfre]

Next time I grow seeds I will compare clones taken right before the flip (flowering) and reveged clones from a bud. Curious to see if there will be a difference. I usually stay away from revegging because it makes for handicap plants (3 leaf) and seem to keep that trait.

Also take pics...of every grow of each generation and measure temps and time taken to root for clones and hopefully you should see some patterns emerge, or even better dont, indicating you got the russian roulette of seed popping right and managed a few clean plants of good genes to work with. I know of big licences brought to their knees, many actually...I can just imagine what its like in other places seeing as how ignorant everyone seems to be a couple years after the news has gotten out there and everything been validated. Some, all they want is a clean good clone to start up again with..others are just carrying on as they were unaware, wondering if its them or this or that or WTF is going on..I consult with many licences too through my nutrient company, we supply quite a few big places. This is affecting everyone, whether you aware or not, or if you've been very lucky, or aware for a long time. A mate of mine for example comes from growing hops background along with weed for a long time so he was aware even before it was news in the states, he was just waiting for it, already with his production biosecure nothing new in and all run been run for years with no signs, as there was no testing available still. But on closely watching metrics you see it as stuff just becomes off. Even the professors you watch on youtube, teaching us all the tricks from their lab tests, you think this did not affect/is not affecting them? Notice amount of videos 2 years and prior, and then last 2 years..follows the same traffic pattern as the social media hype of seed co's..funny that. We spoke to the prof. they had viroid like everyone else, by the time they were seeing it in wierd results in yield and etc. in one or another strain and they started testing, it was in everything. And not much content for the last long time as they have been resetting and trying to find clean material to carry on studies with as unbeknown to them all their previous studies were skewed by this too.

Crazy shit..hahaha

 

[little-soldier]

Look at the youtube vid from medical genomics where they talk about the tolerant clone "jamaican lion" that they found..That explains what you, I and others have found about revegging plants and just having sometimes wierd effects. Often in a tolerant strain, the viroid will be produced and sink to the roots, but the plant has a mechanism to keep it there and block it moving up past the roots back to the rest of the plant like it does with most other strains..that "Jamaican lion" clone would test negative in the leaf 3/4 of the time, and negative in the bud, and all the time positive in the roots, and when they let it go post term, over ripe, and let it almost reveg, the lower popcorn bud now built up a high viroid load and all lower bud then tested positive and carried high viroid. So revegging, even with a tolerant variety, if infected, you are almost guaranteed of only getting heavily infected clones from that reveg. Which explains something I've wondered about since loosing the best weed I ever smoked, a chocolope shiskaberry cross, long ago...she revegged fine many times and was so vigorous that I never kept her as a mom, just revegged her each time and kept her for personal smoke, and then one time I harvested her and she was half the flavour as usual and half the kick but still very nice weed, and she never revegged after that, just fell over and died and rotted. She must have picked up something during the few months before. But yeah revegging..Not as effective as I though two years ago LOL..Opinions change as circumstances and evidence dictates.

jesus its always about the virus with you lol

 

[maryjaneismyfre]

jesus its always about the virus with you lol

Na, its always about helping others...Its a viroid, it wasn't me who asked WTF is going on.. I am well aware WTF is going on, good luck with figuring it out.

 

[Paradox808]

yep. Viroids & virus are classified different because ... Well. They are not the same !

 

[Verdant Whisperer]

jesus its always about the virus with you lol

Na, its always about helping others...Its a viroid, it wasn't me who asked WTF is going on.. I am well aware WTF is going on, good luck with figuring it out.

The man was being strait up with you and you take it soo personal, the thread was about why clones taste/High differs from the mother plants,

 

[maryjaneismyfre]

You can lead a horse to water....LOL.

 

[little-soldier]

The man was being strait up with you and you take it soo personal, the thread was about why clones taste/High differs from the mother plants,

exactly and I got the point the first time. I even went down the rabbit hole and learned a lot but then he said the revegged plant having 3 leafs (which is normal) could be the virus again. A little like googling medical symptoms and always getting..you might have cancer.

 

[maryjaneismyfre]

No...I was saying that evidence now suggests, that if one revegged a plant, for taking cuttings to keep the line going, if the plant had viroid, which a fair majority of plants out there do whether you believe it or not, then one would be selecting for a high viroid load off the bat. The primary and initial negative effect that the viroid has on the plant, is inhibition of hormone production, primarily IAA, the hormone that makes a shoot, shoot and makes apical dominant growth, and IBA, the rooting hormone. That is why before you see a loss of quality, before viroid loads get high, if one notices the subtle changes, the main one is the lowered rooting, and lowered shooting, less roots mean less bud mass also so before loss of quality you see loss of yield but also one would see a loss of vigor attempting to reveg, and one would almost ensure that the clones would be high load of the bat, if the parent plant was infected but had low load of infection..it is what it is..it is science..I am just repeating what scientific study has shown us.

IAA gets metabolized into IBA, and visa versa, this is well known.. though loss, of course, of the conversion, and the two hormones are intimately related. When flowering is initiated, the hormone profile of the weed changes dramatically, rooting slows down, and basically stops by week 3 for most hybrids, and also the shooting and upward growth stops, and the plant starts producing only flowers. IAA and IBA production has ended by second week flowering I'd guess and you are seeing the residual effects of the going round from tips to tips of tops to roots round and round until its all broken down, nothing more being produced at that stage.

Now when one reveg's a plant, one must get it to exit its natural stage of death, and get its hormones going again that it hasn't gotten going in 2 months. That is a stressful cycle for the plant but given time it will begin to wake up and get going. Now...if and when there is another factor involved like hpvld, then the momentum of getting going again and getting into the swing of things again takes a lot longer and becomes a lot more hit and miss as the hormones you need the plant to make to get going again are the first thing hit by viroid, and in addition, the lower popcorn buds where one would typically reveg from, are specifically the sites on even a tolerant plant where flowering tops would test negative (this was shown in lab by Medical Genomics' study that I brought up before), even on one of those plants, it was almost guaranteed to have a decent viroid load in the popcorn bud that went post term. When and if you so watch that video on that talk/study, you will remember this..put 2 and 2 together..viroid and revegging, once you understand how widespread viroid is, are intrinsically connected. To try come up with conclusions, looking at ones attempts and experiments, without taking viroid into account, is wasting your time.

If one has revegged a plant and its leaves continue to grow 3 blades long after the clone has been cut and grown out, then it is obvious that something is affecting the hormones of the plant. If that plant was taken back to its embryonic state and cleaned up in a lab, and and you grew it out, it would grow out to normal form once hormone production had come right. The reveg plant should do just the same but quicker, unless there is something you are not taking into account affecting hormones. In my experience, the most common thing in weed in this day and age that primarily affects hormone production is hplvd infection. So once again one can put 2 and 2 together. It is not the cause per se, but it is a likely to be cause.

Anyways, I took the time and made the effort to go and take pics, and write all these explanations up for you, not for you actually, but for you and the community...I feel that this is that important, I haven't posted much in the last two years, nevermind put up pics, I am WAY too busy growing tons of weed. If I wasnt though, I would probably be in the same boat as most here..I'm trying to let folks know, the boat, she is heading towards to rocks. Personally, me and my team have already changed boats and are on a different course to what we were on, you can carry on heading for the rocks if you like, it's a free world, but I will sleep better at night knowing I warned anyone who was prepared to listen.

I mean just go to seeds here now..their landing page cover picture..that plant is clearly infected just by the eye LOL..that already means high viroid load. That is how widespread it is. Once ones eye is trained..look at most breeder pics on any site, you can't not see it once your eye is trained in. It is in most stuff, obvious to those who've seen enough of it, oblvious those who haven't. You dont even need to see much either of it, most have only seen stuff growing with it, just need to see the full spectrum. Most have never seen truly clean, unless they have sourced actually clean stuff and maintain proper biosecurity, so hence cannot compare. I have shown mates of mine in pics, explained, and they after saw it everywhere in their grows, testing currently, and yup its in everything. I've shown mates of mine the plants themselves and they after are like fuck bra, I've always just grown with this...them only beginning to grow within the last 2 decades..

If one doesnt believe this is completely widespread, one is head in the sand ostrich style.

 

[Verdant Whisperer]

No...I was saying that evidence now suggests, that if one revegged a plant, for taking cuttings to keep the line going, if the plant had viroid, which a fair majority of plants out there do whether you believe it or not, then one would be selecting for a high viroid load off the bat. The primary and initial negative effect that the viroid has on the plant, is inhibition of hormone production, primarily IAA, the hormone that makes a shoot, shoot and makes apical dominant growth, and IBA, the rooting hormone. That is why before you see a loss of quality, before viroid loads get high, if one notices the subtle changes, the main one is the lowered rooting, and lowered shooting, less roots mean less bud mass also so before loss of quality you see loss of yield but also one would see a loss of vigor attempting to reveg, and one would almost ensure that the clones would be high load of the bat, if the parent plant was infected but had low load of infection..it is what it is..it is science..I am just repeating what scientific study has shown us.

IAA gets metabolized into IBA, and visa versa, this is well known.. though loss, of course, of the conversion, and the two hormones are intimately related. When flowering is initiated, the hormone profile of the weed changes dramatically, rooting slows down, and basically stops by week 3 for most hybrids, and also the shooting and upward growth stops, and the plant starts producing only flowers. IAA and IBA production has ended by second week flowering I'd guess and you are seeing the residual effects of the going round from tips to tips of tops to roots round and round until its all broken down, nothing more being produced at that stage.

Now when one reveg's a plant, one must get it to exit its natural stage of death, and get its hormones going again that it hasn't gotten going in 2 months. That is a stressful cycle for the plant but given time it will begin to wake up and get going. Now...if and when there is another factor involved like hpvld, then the momentum of getting going again and getting into the swing of things again takes a lot longer and becomes a lot more hit and miss as the hormones you need the plant to make to get going again are the first thing hit by viroid, and in addition, the lower popcorn buds where one would typically reveg from, are specifically the sites on even a tolerant plant where flowering tops would test negative (this was shown in lab by Medical Genomics' study that I brought up before), even on one of those plants, it was almost guaranteed to have a decent viroid load in the popcorn bud that went post term. When and if you so watch that video on that talk/study, you will remember this..put 2 and 2 together..viroid and revegging, once you understand how widespread viroid is, are intrinsically connected. To try come up with conclusions, looking at ones attempts and experiments, without taking viroid into account, is wasting your time.

If one has revegged a plant and its leaves continue to grow 3 blades long after the clone has been cut and grown out, then it is obvious that something is affecting the hormones of the plant. If that plant was taken back to its embryonic state and cleaned up in a lab, and and you grew it out, it would grow out to normal form once hormone production had come right. The reveg plant should do just the same but quicker, unless there is something you are not taking into account affecting hormones. In my experience, the most common thing in weed in this day and age that primarily affects hormone production is hplvd infection. So once again one can put 2 and 2 together. It is not the cause per se, but it is a likely to be cause.

Anyways, I took the time and made the effort to go and take pics, and write all these explanations up for you, not for you actually, but for you and the community...I feel that this is that important, I haven't posted much in the last two years, nevermind put up pics, I am WAY too busy growing tons of weed. If I wasnt though, I would probably be in the same boat as most here..I'm trying to let folks know, the boat, she is heading towards to rocks. Personally, me and my team have already changed boats and are on a different course to what we were on, you can carry on heading for the rocks if you like, it's a free world, but I will sleep better at night knowing I warned anyone who was prepared to listen.

I mean just go to seeds here now..their landing page cover picture..that plant is clearly infected just by the eye LOL..that already means high viroid load. That is how widespread it is. Once ones eye is trained..look at most breeder pics on any site, you can't not see it once your eye is trained in. It is in most stuff, obvious to those who've seen enough of it, oblvious those who haven't. You dont even need to see much either of it, most have only seen stuff growing with it, just need to see the full spectrum. Most have never seen truly clean, unless they have sourced actually clean stuff and maintain proper biosecurity, so hence cannot compare. I have shown mates of mine in pics, explained, and they after saw it everywhere in their grows, testing currently, and yup its in everything. I've shown mates of mine the plants themselves and they after are like fuck bra, I've always just grown with this...them only beginning to grow within the last 2 decades..

If one doesnt believe this is completely widespread, one is head in the sand ostrich style.

Thank you for the post and additional explanation, and excuse me if I misinterpreted your information. I agree just like with humans there is a high percentage with HPV that don't even know. I think this is an answer, to the question, but not the specific answer he was looking for. There was not one correct answer to this thread, as there as multiple factors that can change a clone from the mother. There's been alot of good info posted on this thread. The main factor is any kind of change in hormonal levels due to environment, stress, age, and other factors including viroid's.

Question? are viroid's more prevenelent in outdoor landraces or indoor hyrbids?

 

[maryjaneismyfre]

Thank you for the post and additional explanation, and excuse me if I misinterpreted your information. I agree just like with humans there is a high percentage with HPV that don't even know. I think this is an answer, to the question, but not the specific answer he was looking for. There was not one correct answer to this thread, as there as multiple factors that can change a clone from the mother. There's been alot of good info posted on this thread. The main factor is any kind of change in hormonal levels due to environment, stress, age, and other factors including viroid's.

Question? are viroid's more prevenelent in outdoor landraces or indoor hyrbids?

I would take a guess that they would be more rare in the landrace fields..though if not selecting parent plants for seed, and not rotating crops, it could be an issue. If western seeds are being spread in the landrace fields, then it could be anywhere..In indoors, where we have been germinating seeds from all sort of sources, and buying/trading clones, keeping mothers and propagating vegetatively, it will be widespread already.

 

[sublingual]

Does the seed plant take longer to finish than the clone? I'll venture a guess as to why the clones are not odiferous. While I believe all nutrients are required to produce smells, my hunch is that Mag Sulfate determines the strength of the smells, particularly, the sulfur. Mag and Sulfur are taken up by the plant slower that the NPK. So, a quicker clone may not have had time to completely develop its smells.