Calling All Pot Sommeliers

[draco]

Is there a better place to start it than right here?

We got the best breeders, growers, and cannaseurs - some of the best anyway... good place to start I would think.

 

[Hash Zeppelin]

^I hoping to get GN to make it a forum, he said he might if it takes off. I think I.C. mag is a really great place to start.

I am also going to introduce it to the dutch forums. The coffee shop market in the netherlands is the best place to test it. The dutch people get strains and hash from around the globe. Plus they wont have to hide like in the U.S.A.

Next test market of course is the cali dispensary scene. It will be much more limited though.

This is going to take input from hundreds of people to do this right. Not something just a few of us could come up with. We need to find at least 10 masters to start this up as well. they are the only one with the years of experience, and knowledge to come up with a detailed enough system.

I already wine have somms willing to help build it based on the french system.

It will all be very confusing at first to many people too, so we have to think of a way to get everyone interested in learning a system like this. otherwise they might give up. Once you get the concept though it is really simple.

My hope is that there is master breedres reaing this and getting together right now to form it underground. I really think the dutch are going to be on the forefront though.

I need to contact the bush doctor of smokersguide.com he is on the list for somms just from his wide array of records, and strain sampling experience.

http://www.smokersguide.com/sg/index.html

 

[mriko]

It's a double edged sword mriko, were weed to be legal then the market for imported would dry up and many of these subsistance farmers will lose part of their income and their crops will become worthless to them.

Well, if we keep the legalization for us (Europe & North America), then yes, farmers will lost their income as their production won't be needed anymore abroad (or much much less).

imo the market for imported goods would not go down, it would go up in fact.

Yup, myself I would buy 90% of imported good, the remaining 10% would be homegrown. But un-regulated do-what-you-want legalization would be catastrophic for farmers, as their product would lost lots of value due to sky-rocketing production everywhere. And most of the world-changing potential that lies in legalization would be lost for good.

Thinking big here man. I think it is a great idea to protect these people in the process of legalization with this system. This system would put a higher value on their product because they will be an offiicial region that produces a limted ammount of a product that can only be produced in that particular region. you cant make nepalize hash in california. It would have to be made with nepalize strains in nepal by nepalize people. that could be a rule in clasification. Just like it cant be burgandy, which is the pinot noir grape, unless is produced in the burgandy region. If it pinot noir is produced it oregon it is called pinot noir, even if it a clone from a mom pinot noir plant in burgandy. the vinyards there are owned by the french mostly.

Definitely, that should be a basis and everyone thinking/working about legalization should have that in mind.

So you see the system wont hurt these people, it will help their product retain its value in a legal market. It will also make it harder for big corporations to produce quality bud. There will be no keeping them out of the shwag market though. It is impossible. They have already copy writed and pattented cetain things for their future weed products. They are planning ahead and so must we! They will start advertising cigarettes mixes with 1/10th weed so you can try it slowly if you havnt before and want to get into it. then they will have even more niccotine to hook you. Big tobbacco is sleeze, and will sell their shit as quality if we dont stop them. This sytem is a premtive strike against them.

The system won't hurt them only if it's regulated, and certainly not by the WTO ! Actually it should be partially inspired by the UN-regulated legal opium trade, and the international transaction should be handled by a specially created UN-branch. Let's temporarily call it CIA (Cannabis International Agency). So the CIA would buy from producing countries, and sell to using countries, making a profit out of it (for what use I'll explain later).

THe way I see it, things would go as such :

Producing countries : they can set up their local market the way they want, but still abiding to some CIA-rules such as growing only local strains, forbidding any forest clearing for new grow, no pesticide use and so on.
THey should have priority for export.

Using countries : Same, they can set up their local market the way they want, but although abide to some rules in the same time. Commercial export should be forbidden, for at least the first 5 years, so as to let time for the market to settle & protect the third-world growers. After 5 years (every 5 years actually), some meeting would review the situation and make addendum to this or that rule if deemed necessary or suitable.
Private production is to be allowed for sure, but commercial production should remain cottage-style (again to keep the big hungreedy ones at bay), and outdorr & greenhouse should be prefered. Although not forbidden, indoor growing should be discouraged (too much energy wasted, too much pollution), and there should be a limit on wattage, and why not taxing the wattage. That if HID lamp makers don't release some "Solar HPS Kit", would be really cool thing !

International trade : The CIA would have "agents" roaming the campaigns in search of the goodies, sample them (ideally by some panel), gather any information about the terroir, the techniques of extraction & production, everyting that gives its identity to the end product so as to establish some classification of the different production, according to their own particularities. These same agents would estalish contracts with growers so as to buy their production (directly ? through a village cooperative ? hmm, maybe better indeed). This would allow the money to be used for local development , and prevent it from being lost in the pockets of the big big ones at national level.
THe different production of different countries would be gathered in a Global Canna Center (in Netherlands ?), kinda stock-market, from where it would be sold & re-exported. Things could be inspired from the Dutch flower market and the electronic auction system. As registered re-seller, one would be allowed to take part to the auctions and decide what to buy from the different informations available. Country & place of origin, name of producer, cannabinoids content & so on. We can even imagine that one wouldn't have to go there to take part to auctions, but do it from is home or work-place like on ebay.

The benefit from export sales would go to the UN World Food Program so as to make money quickly available for humanitarian emergencies. Example : every few years I read about Malawi being hit by starvation and as usual the UNWFP makes some appeal to donation so as to buy food for people, and as usual no one gives. Everytime I tell myself that this shouldn't happen, and this wouldn't happen would Malawi could export his wolrd-reknowned Malawi Gold. They would have the money to import food (and let's not forget that in many countries cannabis could be an important food source as well), and the UNWFP would have money to deal with emergencies.

All in all, the UN-regulations would be temporary and after some years, enough time for the market to get stable & well running some would be abolished so as to allow more free enterprise (but still under some UN supervision so as to keep big corp at bay, and never should the weed fall in the rotten greedy hands of WTO)

This is, crudely, how I see the things. We have a choice here, make cannabis legal for our own benefit, so we can grow, smoke and make quick good bucks, or make cannabis legal for the benefit of the whole world, and still be allowed to grow & smoke, & still make good bucks.

Cannabis legalization can help change the world & make it a better place to live. This is what I believe, and this is why I want it to get legal.

Irie !

 

[9Lives]

^ Lol that would suck..way too much byrocracy. Fuck Socialism! Give me free trade plz...

Frankly i do not care much about the poor villages that would depend on cannabis for their income. There is no reason to create a byrocratic nightmare (a really unfair one at that) just to save a few peasants.

Let the markets decide. If the markets support a small farm in nepal..there you go. If not..though luck..

 

[PazVerdeRadical]

the market will support small farms in nepal and traditional producing countries because of their unique climates. people like quality. I rather buy outdoor grown in nepal than outdoor grown in florida for example.

would you guys think that in a legal world the connoisseurs will prefer outdoors over indoor and hence indoor growing dropping a lot? I think so.

 

[Cookie monster]

^I hoping to get GN to make it a forum, he said he might if it takes off. I think I.C. mag is a really great place to start.

I think thats a great idea, i know we have a breeders forum but sadly most breeders or at least thats the impression i get have their own agendas that are not necessarily in the best interests of the plant we love.

A forum where idiots like me are taught by true masters who share a common goal cant be a bad thing

 

[mean mr.mustard]

Yes indeed Cookie Monster, breeders are the devil... we covered this ad nauseam before VanXant left.

All I want to know is why we have to muck up such a good thing with something as pretentious as wine ratings and the like... it's not that it's a bad idea, but more so that it will become what the wine industry has. Everyone who drinks wine on a somewhat regular basis thinks they know more than a little about it. I'm pretty sure you've seen it too.

I was just attending a wine tasting a few weeks back and noticed this guy (pretty tipsy but not outright drunk) discoursing on soil and its influence upon the grape. It was interesting for a little bit until he started contradicting himself and tried to dig his way out by getting his little crowd of people to attempt to taste what he was talking about. Then it got downright engrossing. I sat down for it. Nobody had a clue what he was talking about, you could see it on their faces, but they all acted like they could taste the difference.

Upon investigating the bottles I realized they were from the same vineyard and only a year apart in difference... what a douche. I'm sure there were miniscule differences but not for the reasons he was claiming... regardless his misinfluenced crowd couldn't taste them.

I suppose you should be very careful in choosing your "masters" because that's what they will become. If you want to learn wine, get your face in it... if you want to learn cannabis, get your face in it. Listening, reading, thinking, and speaking are all good things but it really comes down to personal taste and not what you are being told to like.

This is coming from a guy who knows his wine... and his beer... and his food... and his cannabis.... better put me down as a "1"

 

[Hash Zeppelin]

^
unfortunatley things like wine spectator are pretentious. I'm not talking about that type of rating really. It is a clasifcation more to speak. So people know what they are getting. I imagine there will be magazine like high times that will start rating buds from 1-100, but it will be the same as wine spectator. Wine spectator is just that for spectators not participants. Real pro will know it just an ass kissing contest just like the cannabis cup.

the master somm I work with despises people like the guy you described above. Real masters taste the wine and keep the opinion to their selves during the intial taste. This is because it is all subjective. That guy was just an attention whore. There are those in every profession. I wouldnt even be surprised if it was american wine he was drinking. (noob wine)

There is a wonderfull trick to pull on people if you think they are full of shit when tasting wine, you ca do the same with weed. ok here is is. Taste the wine with them, then tell them you pick up a lot of star fruit. if they agree then you know they are full of shit because star fruit tastes like nothing. We do it all the time.

I know my shit pretty well, but in the pot system I would be no more than a 2. if that. In the wine system maybe a 1 if I tried.

I wouldnt chose masters. That would be left up to people proven more advanced than me. I could think of a few to start though.

I like the UN idea from miko. Why shouldnt we help the whole world in the proccess of legalization. start a new trend of being non greedy bastards. Fuck big tobacco, and big pharma. More prosperity for the whole globe means prosperity for us. Pot should be a positive thing in as many ways as possible.

 

[707Corridor]

I'm pretty excited to see what ends up happening.

Your got some good ideas Hash I really like you bringing these ideas to the table. You are very right that Pot should be a positive thing.

If I may comment on something you said as an example of what I and probably a lot of people are hoping this system doesn't become.

"I wouldnt even be surprised if it was american wine he was drinking. (noob wine)"-Hash Zeppelin

It's statements like this that would kinda drive me away from any type of pot somm system. From what I remember you would not want this system to be or to come off as pretentious, but that statement leads me to think otherwise. No harm tho brother. I just wanted to point that out.


I'll def be sticking around to see what happens and if any help is need with the California Dispensary scene let me know! I'm up here in Sonoma County...

 

[9Lives]

Yes indeed Cookie Monster, breeders are the devil... we covered this ad nauseam before VanXant left.

All I want to know is why we have to muck up such a good thing with something as pretentious as wine ratings and the like... it's not that it's a bad idea, but more so that it will become what the wine industry has. Everyone who drinks wine on a somewhat regular basis thinks they know more than a little about it. I'm pretty sure you've seen it too.

I was just attending a wine tasting a few weeks back and noticed this guy (pretty tipsy but not outright drunk) discoursing on soil and its influence upon the grape. It was interesting for a little bit until he started contradicting himself and tried to dig his way out by getting his little crowd of people to attempt to taste what he was talking about. Then it got downright engrossing. I sat down for it. Nobody had a clue what he was talking about, you could see it on their faces, but they all acted like they could taste the difference.

Upon investigating the bottles I realized they were from the same vineyard and only a year apart in difference... what a douche. I'm sure there were miniscule differences but not for the reasons he was claiming... regardless his misinfluenced crowd couldn't taste them.

I suppose you should be very careful in choosing your "masters" because that's what they will become. If you want to learn wine, get your face in it... if you want to learn cannabis, get your face in it. Listening, reading, thinking, and speaking are all good things but it really comes down to personal taste and not what you are being told to like.

This is coming from a guy who knows his wine... and his beer... and his food... and his cannabis.... better put me down as a "1"

I agree with this whole post!

If you want to become an expert or a cannabis sommelier (lol) if you will. GET YER FACE IN IT!

Best place to start IMHO. Go to a seedbank site. BUY ALL the seeds you can from different breeders. Post a thread growing the plants etc. Rate the smoke and move on to the next strain. When you have a few hundred threads under your belt im sure you can be called an expert and most of the community will acknowledge you. Either that or someone else can do the growing for you.

A trip to Amsterdam every now an then..review the coffeshop thread. Take photos post reports etc..

This is NOTHING you can learn just by reading online.

EDIT:

If you want to become and expert you should make it your priority to be a judge in every single cup they hold. Being and expert is all about reputation and experience..This site pretty much handles it all allready. I do however feel that it is a good idea to start a separate forum where we can discuss cannabis judging.

 

[9Lives]

I really think this whole thing must start from a standardized set of rules for rating cannabis. So we have to get that down and then get down growing and smoking. A standard rule for how threads should look. Whoever posts them. What kind of pics should be in it etc..(whole plant, bud macro.) So we really need a system for thread posting in a sense so when a newbie comes he can easily browse through a strain guide like the one Overgrow had..

 

[Hash Zeppelin]

we have a decent strain guide going here, but the OG one was legendary. Much of the info from it is saved here, but the pics are lost. Man I with they still had all the pics to go with.

We also have the strain report template that tells you all the info you need to include. This is why I like I.C. mag. some of the ground works has been started for us.

We still need to come up with official regions, and clasifications, and requirments to be included in certain clasifications. these regions must be great for growing. Also the strain must be great for growing in the area.

Like the emerald triangle would be a region. Oregon east of the cascades would be one region. Oregon west of the cascades would be antoher. mexican highlands would be one. Hawaii, nepal, etc. Basically anywhere that is ideal for growing all organic landraces of the region. It could also be new hybrid strains made to fit a region.

Moving on. I can see how the "noob wine" statement could come across as pretencious. All I meant by that was America wine is HUGE in fruit flavor and smell, and are easy wines to identify. Just like it isnt hard to identify road kill skunk, it isnt hard to identify napa valley cab. People commonly mistake comments, showing knowledge of the big picture, as pretenciousness. The fact is they are just lacking in knowledge of the subject and are intimdated; therefore they come up with "pretenciousness" as a defence. Most people cant even comprehend the ammount of knowledge a master has, and therefore cant even begin to understand what they are being told. Again they feel intimidatedand and small. They try to make themselves feel better, by putting someone else down and calling them a wine dork in their head. Or they will say it is just alcoholic grape juice. These same people like american wine more than french or itallian wine even though american wine is pretty much crap. Excluding pinot noir from the northwest. Many of those are fantastic. It is like people who dont see the difference between shwag and lets say.... gloden goat.

 

[Hash Zeppelin]

this link explains The french wine classification rules. including AOC
http://www.terroir-france.com/wine/classif.htm



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_wine

here is one for itallian

 

[mean mr.mustard]

Okay.. the noob wine thing stung. I'm a Columbia kind of guy.. I love Sonoma.. I hurt right now.

I'm over it.

I really like French wines but Italian wines are now my interest. I still have some good left bank bottles in my reserve however...

You must get out and stretch your legs. Live a little or a LOT. There's too much out there to get in a lifetime but I beg you to try

PS I've been called a wine dork food critic pot snob and any varitation thereof. It makes me remember what I've invested and what I love... why not enjoy the fucking ride? Don't feel too bad when you are called names... after all you were calling something else some type of name when it happened

 

[Hash Zeppelin]

Ok now its time to brag a little so you can see I'm not totally full of shit.

just a few wines i have tried that are crazy rare.
The most unique(in a very good way) tasting wine I have ever tried was 1987 Quinterelli Amarone.

The oldest wine I have had was 1800 Madera. Although the 1969 sandemans port is better imho.

My favorite wine is definatley burgandy though.

No wine, however will ever compare to something like Super Silver Haze, or chem d, or master kush, or any well bred pot strain, because wine does not lift you out of your world like a fat rip of ssh, or send you into nirvana like a good hindu kush.

See I have tried so much different weed and can identify many strains just by seeing and smelling it. I can almost always narrow it down to the original liniage at least. There are many more people that know 10 times more than me, and are 100 times more experiencded. These people have deticated their lives to this risky profession. I think these people should be rewarded for their great products, and contributions. If it wasnt for these type of people I would never get to try some of the craziest strains. Most of those strains would have never been bred.

here is my dream...
Ok so I really get spoiled on the wine. The bottles opened for a regular tasting for our customers are usually about a thousand bucks a pop, and they always include us. That stuff is usually about the quality I drink now. I could never afford it, but it is around at work and home so I get to partake. It is just a few sips at a time though. I am not a big fan of drinking, but I cant pass up this stuff. It is to rare and wont be around forever. In return I burn some of my dank. We have done weed and wine and food trio parrings. One day we would like very much to incorporate pot into fine dining. Imagine how much food sales would go up. Many of us want to build a business like this badly, we just have to create the market.

I have a great group of people to start a great small hotel/ restraunt. It would be two floors. The second floor would be 10 to 15 hotel rooms. The bottom floor would be a lobby, a restraunt, and coffee shop. The surrounding area outside would be wooded with zen gardens and fountains along small paths that cut through the property to quite little nooks with comfortable places to sit, and hammocks as well. Some would contain fireplaces. Some would contain openings to hill side views. one might have a tree house. I want it to be a chill place for people to come relax, and enjoy a day away from the city, and have a smoke.

 

[mriko]

^ Lol that would suck..way too much byrocracy. Fuck Socialism! Give me free trade plz...

Frankly i do not care much about the poor villages that would depend on cannabis for their income. There is no reason to create a byrocratic nightmare (a really unfair one at that) just to save a few peasants.

Let the markets decide. If the markets support a small farm in nepal..there you go. If not..though luck..

Dam, what is this obsession with socialism, this is not sociaism, this is solidarity, and it's fairness (yes it is!).

OK to free trade, but not from the start. If it gets do-all-what-you-want from the start, the production will explode & prices will drop to such a point be it a Nepali farmer or a Californian commercial grower, all of them will be screwed. Users too, as Big Corps would soon & quick conquer the market.

The first years need regulations, so as to let time for the market to establish & stabilize, identify the special production zones, identify the needs of the user market and so on.

You have the right not to care about others, but as far as I'm concerned, my butt is not enough so I've got the whole world (if not more...) in mind. Much much more interesting...
It would be easy for me to settle in Kashmir or Pakistan, marry a local & grow a nice field to make some quality hash, and that would be agreat life for sure, but it would benefit only me, only me. But no, I prefer struggling to give justice to millions of people around the world who've been opressed because of their use of a plant, for millions of poor peasants who have been turned into criminals because they grow a plant, for countries who have been denied a huge source of income and therefore maintained in abject poverty and nearly permanent political instability (and I'm not even talking about the corruption...) by the will of a single country. THAT is unfair.

You talk about Nepal ? Very good example. Nepal could be a RICH country had the US not pusched for charas & ganja ban in the 70s and I believe that the civil war which broke out in Nepal, launched by Maoists, is a direct consequence of the charas & ganja ban. Maoist ideology appeared first because of poverty in the countryside. Poor peasants & farmers who could have made a good life from the plant instead of warfaring in their own country, and killing other Nepali people.

This year in some areas of West Nepal is starvation, right now, at this very moment I'm writing, or you to read, somepeople are dying from starvation in the green mountains of Nepal. All forgotten, or ignored, by most. UN made a call for money, another call lost in the coldness of the intergalactic void...
This shouldn't happen, and this wouldn't happen had the cannabis ban not been forced upon the world.


I have a dark & cynical side, and this side thinks that to save the planet we need a cataclysmic event of global proportion that would wipe out 95% of human population, minimum. But I have a brighter side too, who thinks the world is not about statistics and that everyone deserves to have a good, normal life. Means a home, food & water everyday, safety. And precisely in the countries were psychoactive cannabis is a customary, traditionnal crop there are lots of people who lack one, if not all, of these needs. And I believe this is a direct consequence of the ban on cannabis.

Legalization is not just about being given the right to grow, smoke & sell. In the West we're so obsessed by our "rights" that we quickly forget the other ones. In the case of legalization this is much more than that. We sure can be granted the rights we require in that field, but we can also make it happen for other people in such a way that it would change the world. THIS PLANT CAN CHANGE THE WORLD, and the "screw-the-others" attitude is the worst way to consider the legalization, because these far away "others" are legalization best allies, provided they get included in the debate.

a really unfair one at that

There's nothing unfair in there. Considering the consequences cannabis prohibition had on these countries, it is only fair to give them a priority on export market.
Plus, for economic reasons, regulations and limitations are necessary during the first years. It's not about fair or unfair, it's necessary, period.

I like the UN idea from miko. Why shouldnt we help the whole world in the proccess of legalization. start a new trend of being non greedy bastards. Fuck big tobacco, and big pharma. More prosperity for the whole globe means prosperity for us. Pot should be a positive thing in as many ways as possible.

Thanks Hash Zeppelin ! Of course we must, because it is the best way to obtain a global legalization. This should be the goal, it will serve us users, serve the producers and even serve the plant so it can get back to the place it deserves in humanity's History.

By the way, after about 20 years of observation of the debate about legalization, I think it would be wise to drop this term in campaigns. If I take my country (France), for most people "légalisation" means "making some dope legal". Even, lots & lots don't make difference between depenalization and legalization. It's quite backward here...
I have read somewhere here at IC-mag the term "re-legalization". I think it's quite good, because it makes one wonder "why "re-"" ? It can bring in questionning much more than "legalization" which I think have become tainted. It doesn't echoes positively in too many people's minds.

this link explains The french wine classification rules. including AOC

AOC ! That's what I meant by "certified origin". This is a system that should be applied to imported materials especially, and also some North American long-established & reknowned strains. Oh, and don't forget hashish ! If ganja ratings requires masters, it is also the case for hashish & charas !

Irie !

 

[9Lives]

^^ LOL!

Talk about naive..

Ok this is not the place or time. And in all fairness you must be out of your freaking head if you think that hippy nonsense you just spewed out will ever become reality.

Nepal could be a RICH country

Nepal will get fucked either way because they are stupid! Look at their politics..Half the nation can't read..The country is a JOKE! Hey every western country has gotten by just fine without legal cannabis right ? Only they need special consideration ? We need them for what exactly ? Frankly i believe giving them special priviledges in the cannabis market could spark a total civil war massacre. When it comes to money you can never have enough can you ? BTW correct me if im wrong but did the nepalese not themselves ban cannabis in the first place ?

Ok let's end this here..PM me anytime bro..

 

[MrsEvlme2]

I like the idea of having a system or levels of expertise.

 

[Hash Zeppelin]

its nice talking to a french person about this, you seems to grasp the idea a little better than most. I guess because wine is such an imprtant part of french culture.

I agree with you. I dont think you are spewing hippy shit. I think it is good logic that you speak. Nepal's poeple tend to be pretty peaceful. Even during the civil war they didnt target tourist. Their tourism industry is re-exploding right now, and it is already producing more hash again. The clasification/ rating system would really be a big help to them and tourist right now as we speak. People could start eating again in the green mountains just based on pot export and tourism alone. Tourist like that sort of thing, so they know they are getting the real deal good temple balls that bubble when burnt, they dont wanna travel half way across the globe to get soap bar hash.

 

[Hash Zeppelin]

Antother reson, it is nice talking to a french person about this you seem to grasp the "big picture" subject fully. Americans just dont get it. I think it is because the french way of thinking is all about personal freedom to enjoy your life, where in america is about freedom for greed, and whats mine is mine. There are pro's and con's to both. I am an american, but have spent a summer in france. I really love the overall french philosiphy. Some parisians men can be rude, but the french woman were always very nice.... and beautiful.......ahhhh what a great summer.

I am glad 9 lives is here though too. multiple opinions are valued. and 9 lives is being nice and not trolling or trying to steal my thread. you are welcome in my discussions anytime bro!