CALIFORNIA VOTERS ONLY--SHOULD CANNABIS BE LEGALIZED AND TAXED AND REGULATED?

[subrob]

....vta....it's just so difficult fer me to trust.....guess that's what it comes down to in all reality. Took me a long time just to get used to 215....and in this conservative county....rightfully so. Trust....is a tough one....

I realize California would/has opened the doors fer other states...when it comes to cannabis.....but I just wonder how it will work when it becomes mainstream industry....I am a veggie gardener and I'm concerned fer the gene pool there as well....I'd just hate to see mono cropped government backed corporate weed....and I fear...that's where it would eventually go.

I'm a hobby... cannabis cultivator enthusiast....a patient....I don't know all the ins and outs of the politics.....but have been happy and kinda free under 215......I do understand there is a difference between the new thingy and the 215 thingy.....but I believe there would be mo' regulations toward the medical in the future if this were to pass.

Goes without sayin'....that I believe no one should go to jail fer herb....yet again....nobody I know...with their med card...goes to jail in my local circle.

The p...i think your input reflects so much the attitude so many of us have...the unease we all feel, on both sides of this issue. to trust, essentially, our government with our, well our herb, sacred herb to many of us....we are giving, first, the state of california, then, god willing, to the united states government. we are offering a gift that can, and will, mean so much to this country...and they dont even fuckin want it right now. when was the last time our government, our country, was offered a gift that could revolutionize the textile industry, the medical industry, and the recreational industry......it is our job to shove it down the fukn throats of the federal government and watch the world become a better place for our children....
****sidebar...just smoked way too much tahoe****
....anyways, your right...i dont know how its gonna work when it goes legit...i cant even imagine...im scared...will this lead to genetic mod down the line? whos to say my right to grow medically wont be stripped down the line? am i unwittingly furthering the agenda of some of these cocksuckers getting rich already overcharging for every marketable canna related item? a million questions come to mind....but i know someday no one is gonna have to go to jail...and its got to start somewhere...i know what im doing come november amounts to closing my eyes and jumpin in the water for the first time...but godammit, i sure am glad i learned to swim....

 

[THE PABLOS]

....I agree Sam.....it's wrong to lock folks up....but I'm not understandin'....in California....where we have the option of applyin' fer Medical exemptions....how and why that would go up? Perhaps if the caregivers are gettin' greedy and goin' over the law's guidelines...then yup...I can see folks havin' problems...but other than that....even in SD county they've mellowed out on us.

Not tryin' to argue with ya Sam....I've been followin' yer work fer a long time....and have the uppermost respect fer ya....just tryin' to get my head around the situation. My attitude is definitely not "fuck everybody else" but I think that if a state has Med status....and ya become a patient....doesn't seem like anyone will go to jail.....not as concerned about taxes either (though the Med card is kinda a tax)...but definitely concerned about what happens to the post prohibition product.

Would it not be better....if all the states went with a Medical use status? Would that not keep most folks outta jail fer smokin' pot?

Subrob....right on dude....just watchin' our local scene the last few yrs....gotta say...I'm still tripped out by the way thingys have come out in the open. I don't know how I'll swim...but I've always been able to keep my head outta the mire....yup I'm nervous. Geezus dude....there are clubs poppin' up all over...several just on Newport Ave....and the quality of the weed.....alotta suspect already. But...not bein' a club shopper....I'm just happy bein' able to grow what I do....with little concern fer legal issues.

 

[markscastle]

how the heck do you figure that? MORE people in jail? LOL I agree it wont release any current offenders but how will this put more people in jail for cannabis if it is completely legal to possess/grow/smoke. sure we can all get medical licenses but why? We are just abusing the system then, but in November we have a chance to CHANGE the system.

People seem to forget what criminal penalties this initiative is REMOVING, like possession, cultivation, paraphernalia, blah blah. With this bill I can legally grow my own in 25 sq ft without fear of criminal prosecution. How can people who grow for personal use be against THAT? Even if you are medical and get your grow discovered, chances are you will be fighting it in court anyways to prove medical necessity because there are still state laws against cannabis. Cops just do the arrest now, ask questions later routine. This will make it 100% legal for anyone 21 and over to do, fan-fucking-tastic.




If you actually READ the bill the local government does NOT regulate if you can grow in your residence for personal use, it can only regulate the commercial end of it. If this bill passes, you will be able to grow and smoke your own regardless of the policies about commercial sales your local government adopts. And why the hell does everyone thing Richard Lee is the only one that is going to make money on cannabis? You don't think other big entities will seize the opportunity? After all, Budweiser's old catch phrase is "This Buds for you". :friends:

From Tax Cannabis 2010 initiative:

Those are the only new laws against cannabis as far as I can tell, which are pretty common sense if you ask me, and they are very similar to alcohol possession and consumption laws. I agree "smoking cannabis in any space while minors are present" needs to be more clearly defined.

I know the initiative is not perfect, but its a fantastic start that will greatly effect how the rest of the USA views and acts toward cannabis. I will be voting YES in November.

It will put more people in jail because it causes TWO NEW FELONEY LAWS! More laws= more people in jail.

This bill does not control local goverments right to pass both zoning laws which have already been used to both prohibit or limit both outside and inside growing within local areas for medical marijuana.

It doesn`t address local building codes for costruction of grow rooms, fiences& security measures,and Greenhouses.

It leaves open local taxes of undetermend amount to be filled in by local enities,even to the point that marijuana could be made so expencive as if prohibited,While state taxes would be capped at $50.00 an oz.

This bill was designed with the purpos of making most of the people of California saddled with going to Oaksterdam in order to obtain there `legal` oz of marijuana! ( and making it Oaksterdam backers richer)

This bill has little to offer to most marijuana users and sets legal presidents in grow limits and area that could be used to over turn the binefits gained medical users and growers gained by Kelly vs. the people of California.

 

[markscastle]

I don`t feel this bill will not pass because there was always a narrow window for passage in the first place. With just a few No votes from the mj comunity it has little chance to pass in November. But what I fear is the state law makers will again take this issue up and with all the moneys availible by it`s backers it could pass there. If this happends we will need a new prop written and then we will need a grass roots aproch to get enough people to sign to have it up to vote in 2012.What we need is new leadership after the death of Jack Herer.I`m hopeful that Mrs.Herer and Dennis Peron (the author of prop 215) who is against Tc 2010 will step up to the plate. We don`t just need marijuana law reform, we need good marijuana reform!

 

[icon]

so is this law going to effect the medical users as well or just those who dont have a medical script?

remember this is suppose to be AMERICA i was brought up to believe its WE the people not ME.....and the people...... we need to stick together that will make us more powerfull then our corrupted gov. & their bag of tricks. im a med user but this law could keep alot of innocent people "friends & family" out of jail & not having to worry about getting a ticket going to court getting a lawyer & adding finacial problems to their pile of already finacial problems.

 

[bobcat420]

California is still part of the united states. So isen't this bill likely to face the same Federal/States rights issues that 215 faced. For instance, it seems like even a commercial grower will be limited to 99 plant's for fear of the feds. Am I missing something here?

And for all you growers out there worried about maintaining a high value for your product, there is always the out-of-state market.

Another positive to remember is the tourism this bill will bring, look at Amsterdam.

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

Read the bill. There will still be plenty of room for arrests in CA on pot offenses. 25sqft growing limitation? 1oz possession limitation? To me this is a step backwards, especially when right now I am allowed to grow and possess as much as I please. I think this is the wrong precedent to set for the first legalization bill. I really wish Jack Herer were still around, I know for sure he would have been one of the first to call this bullshit out.

EDIT: Also that 800,000 is not just in CA, remember this bill will only affect CA law and in a negative way IMO.

So what do we do to change the over 800,000 arrests yearly, even if they are in all of the USA and not just California? It has to start somewhere, to help other states take the same step.
As for you being allowed to to grow and possess as much as you please, this law does not change anything for medical growers, wise up, your fears are groundless.
Every year we wait another 800,000 plus people will be arrested, lets begin the ending of the 800,000 arrests this year, not sometime in the future maybe...
I don't know if Jack would of supported the initiative or not but I don't care what he would advise, I have been fighting the Cannabis laws much longer then Jack did anyway, and I would be happy to see the Tax and Regulate bill pass, this is what I have fought for for 40 years, and to let the opportunity pass is a crying shame. Why do you think all the law enforcement groups are fighting this bill? Because they know that if it passes and other states pass similar laws the War on Cannabis is over and it scares them to hell.

Does it make you feel funny at all that you will be voting the same as all the police, DEA, Narcs, Prison Guards, NIDA staff, Prohibitionists, DARE, Coalition for a Drug-Free California, California Narcotics Officers Association, California Police Chiefs Association. And a lot more groups that would do anything they could to lock you and all our kind in jail. Doesn't that disturb you at all?

-SamS

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

Goes without sayin'....that I believe no one should go to jail fer herb....yet again....nobody I know...with their med card...goes to jail in my local circle.

So what are you going to do to help the over 800,000 Americans that are arrested every year, ignore them? If you think that no one is going to jail for Cannabis in Calif you need to find out the truth, unless you just don't care.

-SamS

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

It will put more people in jail because it causes TWO NEW FELONEY LAWS! More laws= more people in jail.

This bill does not control local goverments right to pass both zoning laws which have already been used to both prohibit or limit both outside and inside growing within local areas for medical marijuana.

It doesn`t address local building codes for costruction of grow rooms, fiences& security measures,and Greenhouses.

It leaves open local taxes of undetermend amount to be filled in by local enities,even to the point that marijuana could be made so expencive as if prohibited,While state taxes would be capped at $50.00 an oz.

This bill was designed with the purpos of making most of the people of California saddled with going to Oaksterdam in order to obtain there `legal` oz of marijuana! ( and making it Oaksterdam backers richer)

This bill has little to offer to most marijuana users and sets legal presidents in grow limits and area that could be used to over turn the binefits gained medical users and growers gained by Kelly vs. the people of California.

If you really think that there would be more arrests in the USA if the whole nation passed Tax and Regulation then you are smoking to much. There are over 800,000 arrests a year in the USA for Cannabis. This has to be stopped, what are you doing to stop it?
Do you have a plan? Or do you even care?
Remember that California led the nation in Cannabis arrests last year, and that was under 215.

-SamS

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

I don`t feel this bill will not pass because there was always a narrow window for passage in the first place. With just a few No votes from the mj comunity it has little chance to pass in November. But what I fear is the state law makers will again take this issue up and with all the moneys availible by it`s backers it could pass there. If this happends we will need a new prop written and then we will need a grass roots aproch to get enough people to sign to have it up to vote in 2012.What we need is new leadership after the death of Jack Herer.I`m hopeful that Mrs.Herer and Dennis Peron (the author of prop 215) who is against Tc 2010 will step up to the plate. We don`t just need marijuana law reform, we need good marijuana reform!

You are right in that if enough growers vote with the anti-Cannabis bloc of police, DEA, Narcs, Prison Guards, NIDA staff, Prohibitionists, DARE, Coalition for a Drug-Free California, California Narcotics Officers Association, California Police Chiefs Association, then Tc2010 will not pass. What a shame that would be.

I don't need new leadership, and Dennis Peron is all about Medical Cannabis not Recreational, he don't care about recreational. Dennis has been my friend for much longer then 215 has been a law, I knew him back in the Big Top days, and still know him today, but I disagree with him on the Tc2010 initiative.
But he will admit no other state has passed medical Cannabis laws as loose as California's, and he doubts any will, so who will help recreational users, the majority of Cannabis users by the way...
800,000 plus arrests has to stop, what is your plan and when do you hope to implement it? I am for Tax and Regulation.
-SamS

 

[cannaboy]

Cannabis should be brought back to the way it was before 1928.. Not taxed..

I'm not in Cali but I wouldn't vote yes sorry sam I respect you and the 40 excellent years but I respect others rights to grow and have more than 28grammes I can smoke that a day of your 20+ year old sk#1clones and would not like to give it up sorry mate its too good, Tho it is disgracefull that growers in the usa that are medi and grow for patients they earn tax free legal money against state and county and federal laws I don't like the people doing this,,,

Pay your bloody taxes,,


I wouldn't know how to vote.. the arrests are the bit people need to look at the arrests can be abided and got round if the bill is looked at a little harder..

How many square feet can a whole family of smokers obtain under the bill,, (Perpetually, no plant numbers,,

and can the majority or arrests be considered petty like the officers were bored,,

or people some patients and serious medi users that get caught upin the commercial trap cos the big boys take the piss,,

what do people suggest??



People should be allowed unlimited plant numbers to grow anywhere and a maximum of 100kilos a person will sort the mess out,,,

I don't ever want to buy herb from another grower as many don't so the contaminent bit needs sorting for medi users but the people that just want to campain for the right to get stoned have their rights too, and need to get better cheep dope that is organic and pest mold free but if the market was flooded only the best gets sold weed does not sell if the better stuff is about cheeper and people will just right off a loss more oftern lending to the side of the non grower,,

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

For those that say there are no Cannabis arrests in California.
Calif State Department of Justice reports that law enforcement conducted a record 78,492 marijuana arrests in 2008.
About 80% of these (61,366) were for mere possession – not sale or cultivation.

It is pretty clear what is up, the police are ignoring the 215 law, or they are so angry about it they are retaliating against the Cannabis community by arresting everyone they can. This has to stop, in fact California leads the nation in arrests, more then any other state.
Anyone that supports law enforcement et al, by helping defeat Tc2010 needs to think about what they are doing and why they are voting the same as most LEO's, maybe just maybe, you need to reconsider a no vote and help defeat the prohibitionists by voting YES for Tax and Regulation in November. I have a real fear that a coalition of police and growers will lead to a defeat.

-SamS

 

[cannaboy]

good statistics sam do you have any other ones?? mabe with medi busts or small home growers??

 

[THE PABLOS]

....As we are just talkin' California.....a state with pretty lax laws on herb (if ya have yer Med Card)....and this is where I live.....I'm not platformin' fer every other state. That's their business.

Peeps go to jail fer weed....me included....but that doesn't make me want to jump into somethin' I don't trust. What I think is happenin' is that we took our inch and now we all want our mile. Fine. If ya believe it's goin' to roll smooth like that. I don't.

Anytime yer invitin' the government in fer a legit cut....yer takin' a big chance.....and as I see no need fer takin' this chance....in California....the risks outweigh the gains....I'm not in favor.

How is law enforcement goin' be able to tell if someone is operatin' a motor vehicle under the influence? How is this goin' to change drug testin'? It's the stuff like that....the system may come up with even mo' regulations....give the police even mo' power....I mean these are the thingys that are goin' to come out of it. They are goin' to have to come up with all kinds of new regulations.....and peeps will still go to jail. Jail is America's biz.....

I'm not the activist....apparently...I'm not the most informed.....but I do not feel good about this in my gut.....I listen to my gut. If that doesn't make sense to anyone....because I'm not on top of every stat...so be it.

IMO.....if ya live in a med state....and go to jail fer smokin' pot....yer not bein' smart. I'll live within the inch....because it works fer me....and my situation.

My hope...is that every state finds a happy medium in the medical use forum....and not invite the government into it any further.

All due respects....but I'm off to work...so I can pay my taxes to send mo' kids off to war....to keep policein' the rest of the world.....so I can live in the bubble of freedom....that med mj helps me tolerate.

Imagine my mornin' commute....when pot is legal....and 1/2 of everyone over 18(lol..) is high on the highest grade weed that they can grow.....it ain't goin' to work.....I'm a stoner and I know this. Law enforcement will freak.....and they will have reason to.....as pot heads tend to hand it to them on a golden platter. They will have to figure out a way to test fer pot on the roads.....that will not get ignored....when they can figure all that out....ya may get yer legal OZ.

It ain't just about freein' the weed.....or the cause fer the wrongly persecuted. It's $ and logistics.

 

[bluekush]

does anyone know how this effects the medical end of this? I have not been able to find solid info on this so does the new restrictions apply to them or does their script hold true.

peace blue

 

[bluekush]

does anyone know how this effects the medical end of this? I have not been able to find solid info on this so does the new restrictions apply to them or does their script hold true.

peace blue

 

[vta]

does anyone know how this effects the medical end of this? I have not been able to find solid info on this so does the new restrictions apply to them or does their script hold true.

peace blue

Hey Blue...that's the thing everyone keeps talking about. It DOES NOT effect prop 215 or SB420. You may hear from some fearful people that it will change it...but it can't. Your best bet ...and everyone else, read the initiative and be informed.




I don't like a few thing about this law...but this law left room for modifications. Also the 'limits' put forth are not limits they are minimums that can be raised.

This bill has some support from non smokers because it places controls. If it were an all out free for all with no tax and no limit...you would not have the support we now have.

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

If you read all the posts in this thread it is real clear that the new Tc2010 does not affect medical users under 215. Or read the Tc2010 initiative yourself to be clear.

-SamS

 

[bluekush]

Hey Blue...that's the thing everyone keeps talking about. It DOES NOT effect prop 215 or SB420. You may hear from some fearful people that it will change it...but it can't. Your best bet ...and everyone else, read the initiative and be informed.




I don't like a few thing about this law...but this law left room for modifications. Also the 'limits' put forth are not limits they are minimums that can be raised.

This bill has some support from non smokers because it places controls. If it were an all out free for all with no tax and no limit...you would not have the support we now have.

thanks for the infoi have been look in it but I didn't see where it stated that medical would not be affected because I would hope that paients thagt are under 21 would still beable to get treatment.

 

[Tommy Trichome]

Dennis Peron is interviewed about his opinions on the CA Regulate, Control and Tax Cannabis Act of 2010.

part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cz3jj3Itvog

part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6IkjMfjwm0

part 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6ibrXUKKNs

part 4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXPykUyv6WA