CA Marijuana Legalization Initiative to Qualify for Ballot Today

[igrowone]

So if this passes i will be able to grow in 25 sqft space but only allowed 1 ounce of bud...Am i reading this right. doesnt make sense to me.

yeah, the grow space and the bud amount don't align very well
my guess in the motivation is these are simple numbers
to the average voter 1 oz is the 'typical users' amount
the 5x5 is the size of closet, actually a pretty good sized closet
but again, the the average voter this sounds like a closet
these are the minimums that are universal for the whole state
counties can tweak these numbers upwards as they see fit

 

[Neo 420]

So if this passes i will be able to grow in 25 sqft space but only allowed 1 ounce of bud...Am i reading this right. doesnt make sense to me.

I have read the bill several times now and it seem it was written to allow possession up to a ounce but if it is alive or "harvested MJ" and its in your 5x5 or 25 sq foot area it ok. I believe its some type of loophole left by the authors. On a side note I met one of the bill writers at the Market St Co-op yesterday in SF. What a coincidence!

 

[D4sh3y]

i really have such a sense of pride about california concerning this ballot initiative. i just have to thank my parents for birthing me here! hahahah

 

[BiG H3rB Tr3E]

how is it legalization if you can only have an ounce????

ive never been arrested for possesing to much liquor. whats the penalty for over an oz?? sounds like a load of bull shit. and what if i got 9 people in my house. is that 9 x 25sqft? or is that 25 sqft only per house hold. and if so do tents count as households?

 

[igrowone]

^^^ it's a limited form of legalization - it won't be as legal as liquor
it will be more legal than it is now
some seem to see this as full legalization or nothing
it will be possible to end up with nothing

 

[hkush]

^^^ it's a limited form of legalization - it won't be as legal as liquor
it will be more legal than it is now
some seem to see this as full legalization or nothing
it will be possible to end up with nothing

Interesting, as there is currently no limit to the amount of alcohol you can possess. I suppose after this bill passes that should be the next thing. (getting the 1oz limit removed).

If memory serves thats how it was in AK, before they re-criminalized growing. There was a limit on plant numbers, with a loophole for community space.

I'd say the angle to use would be along the lines of the global warming hoax. After all, it uses a lot more evil electricity to power one 1000 watt bulb over 5 square feet each than it would to use a community plot. I'd argue that it would save 30% on electricy, extrapolated out of course, to show billions in wattage savings. But thats all down the road.

 

[torealforthcbay]

It could turn into a regular old mexican standoff with the feds. Many federal laws are being deliberately nullified by the states these days (much like pre-civil war). Real ID, ZeroCare, Every state law legalizing medical marijuana, "Sanctuary cities", etc.

Personally, I'd like to see CA force all federal officials to check in with the local sheriffs whenever entering a California county, and receive instruction on what they will not be allowed to enforce, or they themselves will be arrested. As the highest ranking elected law enforcement official in the country, their power trumps any federal pig tresspassing into the county..

i like your style!!! thats thinking in the rite direction!!!

 

[torealforthcbay]

for you guys concerned about the 25sqft and the 1 ounce rule... let me try to break it down.

as a non med patient, under this new initiative, you are legally allowed to carry, posess, transport, smoke, eat, fuck, drink, up to an ounce of herb, in public. this is so you have the right to go buy pot and take it home. or go to the weed bar (a public place) and get baked!

if you grow, and you are a non medi californian over the age of 21, you can legally posses all the herb, hash, resin, kief, whatever is harvested from that garden. no limit on how much. if you can grow 20 lbs in your 5x5, then you can have 20lbs in your house. but you still cannot take out of your house, more then one ounce at a time.

also if you dont grow and want 20 lbs in your house, its all good, as long as you buy that weed from a legal distributer and get it home one once at a time.

 

[Neo 420]

if you grow, and you are a non medi californian over the age of 21, you can legally posses all the herb, hash, resin, kief, whatever is harvested from that garden. no limit on how much. if you can grow 20 lbs in your 5x5, then you can have 20lbs in your house. but you still cannot take out of your house, more then one ounce at a time.

also if you dont grow and want 20 lbs in your house, its all good, as long as you buy that weed from a legal distributer and get it home one once at a time.

I totally agree. That is my understanding of the bill. How this is interpreted upon implementation is the question.

 

[igrowone]

It could turn into a regular old mexican standoff with the feds. Many federal laws are being deliberately nullified by the states these days (much like pre-civil war). Real ID, ZeroCare, Every state law legalizing medical marijuana, "Sanctuary cities", etc.

Personally, I'd like to see CA force all federal officials to check in with the local sheriffs whenever entering a California county, and receive instruction on what they will not be allowed to enforce, or they themselves will be arrested. As the highest ranking elected law enforcement official in the country, their power trumps any federal pig tresspassing into the county..

this is the very interesting question of what happens if this law passes?
what does DEA do? presumably it will be DEA
we've already seen that even with a presidential directive to leave MMJ alone, they can take their own 'initiative'
i don't see large MJ shops selling weed with impunity
the constitution states that laws passed by the federal congress are the 'supreme law of the land'
if DEA wants to enforce, it will, short of another presidential directive
in my opinion, the big winners will be us, the small growers who the DEA doesn't bother with already
you will get rid of the state and local law enforcement, which for most small growers are the biggest risks

 

[torealforthcbay]

im a little confused. between what igrow and hkush are saying about the feds in cali. hkush says "As the highest ranking elected law enforcement official in the country, their power trumps any federal pig tresspassing into the county"
and igrow says. "the constitution states that laws passed by the federal congress are the 'supreme law of the land'
if DEA wants to enforce, it will"

so who really has control of what goes down? i mean a county official couldnt stop a dea raid right?

and say this bill passes, im growing 300 flowering beauties, and get raided by the DEAx as a county sanctioned grower. i am a medi patient now, and will continue to be (i think, it seems like you can buy some pretty sweet rights for $100) but in that case, id be protected like those two guys that just set precedent in the cali supreme court. those guys got off for growing well over any governed amount. but they decided they couldnt legally say how much you could grow. how would that translate to the recreational limits?

 

[igrowone]

im a little confused. between what igrow and hkush are saying about the feds in cali. hkush says "As the highest ranking elected law enforcement official in the country, their power trumps any federal pig tresspassing into the county"
and igrow says. "the constitution states that laws passed by the federal congress are the 'supreme law of the land'
if DEA wants to enforce, it will"

so who really has control of what goes down? i mean a county official couldnt stop a dea raid right?

and say this bill passes, im growing 300 flowering beauties, and get raided by the DEAx as a county sanctioned grower. i am a medi patient now, and will continue to be (i think, it seems like you can buy some pretty sweet rights for $100) but in that case, id be protected like those two guys that just set precedent in the cali supreme court. those guys got off for growing well over any governed amount. but they decided they couldnt legally say how much you could grow. how would that translate to the recreational limits?

and here you have the core of the problem, it's not always straight forward who's in charge, federal or state authorities
in practice with MMJ, it exists on the sufferance of federal enforcement
DEA has raided/arrested MMJ dispensaries in the past
they have only stopped(mostly) by edict from the president of the united states, and reluctantly at that
Cali MMJ is a state law, that did not stop the DEA from prosecuting in federal courts
now exactly what will happen if this new law passes isn't certain, but if history is a guide, federal law will be viewed by federal courts as being the overriding law

 

[torealforthcbay]

so pretty much we are safe for the next 3 to 7 years depending on if obama stays in office or not.

 

[igrowone]

so pretty much we are safe for the next 3 to 7 years depending on if obama stays in office or not.

i think in practice, you'll be safe even if obama is out
there doesn't seem to be much enthusiasm for taking medicine away from sick people, it's just not carrying any good political capital with it
now if you have somebody worse than Bush win the next election, well you never know
but there does seem to be some movement in the federal side, MJ may well be rescheduled as a controlled drug but with medical uses
when this happens, who knows, but it does seem to be inching in that direction

 

[torealforthcbay]

thats the one direction im actually afraid of. i think that will change everything to the point they could take it out of the recreational field. and then restrict medical herb big time. i dont know if that would be a consequence or not, i just hope rescheduling doesnt make it harder for us to grow. i mean, wont they have to take it much more seriously and control it much more stringently if it gets rescheduled to 2? i dont know the answer to that , but i do know that the federal government cannot regulate a schedule 1 drug. and for that reason, id like to see it stay there. as long as states move in the right direction...

 

[igrowone]

thats the one direction im actually afraid of. i think that will change everything to the point they could take it out of the recreational field. and then restrict medical herb big time. i dont know if that would be a consequence or not, i just hope rescheduling doesnt make it harder for us to grow. i mean, wont they have to take it much more seriously and control it much more stringently if it gets rescheduled to 2? i dont know the answer to that , but i do know that the federal government cannot regulate a schedule 1 drug. and for that reason, id like to see it stay there. as long as states move in the right direction...

understand concern, change can be disorienting
but i can't see any more control than now, DEA with guns breaking into your home? what's more severe than that?
if you do small grows, you're pretty much off the DEA radar, think it's about 100 plants before they'll bother to get involved, might vary from region to region
the federal government has really lost control over it, and i think is beginning to come to grips with this grim reality

 

[torealforthcbay]

shit they have zero control over it now. because its illegal! if it becomes federally legal they have all the power in the country to regulate and control it. as an illegal sched 1 narcotic ( hahalol, since narcotics are defined as compounds derived from opium lol) they have no legal right to regulate marijuana . my door getting broke down is the last thing id worry about. its federal regulations that they could put on manufacturing mj that would worry me. i mean this isnt even anything thats on the table, im just saying its a big step that could change everything if herb is non longer looked at like alcohol and is instead looked at like say, oxycontin!

 

[aloner]

What it seems like a lot of people are failing to grasp is the concept of supply and demand...they see legalization as a huge increase in supply, but nobody is recognizing the increase in demand.

In 2006 a survey resulted with 33% of Americans admitting to trying marijuana at least once. In 2008 another survey came through reporting 42%. The truth is though, we have NO IDEA just how many people currently smoke, have smoked in the past, or would try smoking if they had the opportunity.

Do you really think that once it becomes legal the only people using marijuana are going to be the people who have been using it all along? There are going to be thousands, if not millions, of people who are curious to try it at least once. Not to mention there will be an increase in usage by the "casual" smoker. I know that when I was younger and didn't know as many people, there were times when I wished I could get high but I didn't know who to call...imagine if it were legal, I would definitely have spent more money, increasing demand.

The price of marijuana will not fall. In fact, for the first 6 months-1 year, i imagine it will actually skyrocket. Demand will double, possibly triple, and as it is right now, dispensaries go through pounds in a matter of days. Once larger grows get off the ground, the supply will meet the demand and prices will fall back to equilibrium.

If you don't believe me, look at dispensaries. When the first dispenaries opened up, they were making ludicrous profits...quickly breaking several million per year. Since then, hundreds more have opened, I think LA even has somewhere near 1,000 dispensaries, and almost EVERY dispensary is still incredibly profitable. What does that tell you about supply and demand? It tells you that we still have yet to realize the true demand of marijuana.


Everyone worried about "big corporations" should realize that in California, the big guys are going to be the guys who have been growing here all along. There are dozens, if not hundreds, of growers who have been making over $100,000 a year growing illegally for quite some time. These are growers who have money tucked away, and once the dam breaks, they are going to be purchasing large quantities of land and continuing doing what they do best.

But what happens if the state really does become over-run with fields of marijuana? It will still be illegal in 49 other states. Now, if your only concern is making a profit, then a savvy small-time grower will look at exporting their product to a state where the demand still hasn't been met by the supply, which will be just about every other state besides California. The bottom line is that legal or illegal, there will still be money to be made, it's just a matter of HOW YOU WILL MAKE IT. If this really does happen, the best way to make sure you come out on top will be to keep up on the news, surf the web, and talk to people locally. I stop by my local hydro store about twice a month and let me tell you, there is a lot of interest in what's going on right now.


Legalization is going to be a lot more tricky than just signing off a bill and letting everyone run wild. Obviously it will be illegal to operate a motor vehicle while under the influence but how will they test for it? THC stays in your system for weeks, if not months, so a blood sample won't do. Red eyes? Allergies. Cotton mouth? Hot day. Slow response? Not enough sleep. I can't imagine how they are going to enforce OR measure intoxication.

Secondly, how will this effect medical users? Because currently medical patients have much more freedom than what this bill is proposing. Also, how will this effect dispensaries? Will they open their doors to non-medical users? For that matter, how will marijuana be sold? Strictly dispensaries, or will it wind up in your local Safeway/Vons right next to the cigarettes?

We also have to consider quality control. Nobody wants to smoke weed filled with pesticides, who is going to make sure that what makes it to the store is safe to smoke? *the word "safe" being used loosely in that sentence*

We're standing on the forefront of the difference between legalization and decriminalization. Legalization will require answers to all of the questions I listed above. Decriminalization will simply mean "we're not going to arrest you if you're smoking" but will not provide any framework to support an industry of any sort.

I can feel the winds of change blowing strong in California, but it's too early to say which direction they are taking us. In the meantime, I'm going to keep my eyes and ears open...

 

[torealforthcbay]

What it seems like a lot of people are failing to grasp is the concept of supply and demand...they see legalization as a huge increase in supply, but nobody is recognizing the increase in demand.

In 2006 a survey resulted with 33% of Americans admitting to trying marijuana at least once. In 2008 another survey came through reporting 42%. The truth is though, we have NO IDEA just how many people currently smoke, have smoked in the past, or would try smoking if they had the opportunity.

Do you really think that once it becomes legal the only people using marijuana are going to be the people who have been using it all along? There are going to be thousands, if not millions, of people who are curious to try it at least once. Not to mention there will be an increase in usage by the "casual" smoker. I know that when I was younger and didn't know as many people, there were times when I wished I could get high but I didn't know who to call...imagine if it were legal, I would definitely have spent more money, increasing demand.

The price of marijuana will not fall. In fact, for the first 6 months-1 year, i imagine it will actually skyrocket. Demand will double, possibly triple, and as it is right now, dispensaries go through pounds in a matter of days. Once larger grows get off the ground, the supply will meet the demand and prices will fall back to equilibrium.

If you don't believe me, look at dispensaries. When the first dispenaries opened up, they were making ludicrous profits...quickly breaking several million per year. Since then, hundreds more have opened, I think LA even has somewhere near 1,000 dispensaries, and almost EVERY dispensary is still incredibly profitable. What does that tell you about supply and demand? It tells you that we still have yet to realize the true demand of marijuana.


Everyone worried about "big corporations" should realize that in California, the big guys are going to be the guys who have been growing here all along. There are dozens, if not hundreds, of growers who have been making over $100,000 a year growing illegally for quite some time. These are growers who have money tucked away, and once the dam breaks, they are going to be purchasing large quantities of land and continuing doing what they do best.

But what happens if the state really does become over-run with fields of marijuana? It will still be illegal in 49 other states. Now, if your only concern is making a profit, then a savvy small-time grower will look at exporting their product to a state where the demand still hasn't been met by the supply, which will be just about every other state besides California. The bottom line is that legal or illegal, there will still be money to be made, it's just a matter of HOW YOU WILL MAKE IT. If this really does happen, the best way to make sure you come out on top will be to keep up on the news, surf the web, and talk to people locally. I stop by my local hydro store about twice a month and let me tell you, there is a lot of interest in what's going on right now.


Legalization is going to be a lot more tricky than just signing off a bill and letting everyone run wild. Obviously it will be illegal to operate a motor vehicle while under the influence but how will they test for it? THC stays in your system for weeks, if not months, so a blood sample won't do. Red eyes? Allergies. Cotton mouth? Hot day. Slow response? Not enough sleep. I can't imagine how they are going to enforce OR measure intoxication.

Secondly, how will this effect medical users? Because currently medical patients have much more freedom than what this bill is proposing. Also, how will this effect dispensaries? Will they open their doors to non-medical users? For that matter, how will marijuana be sold? Strictly dispensaries, or will it wind up in your local Safeway/Vons right next to the cigarettes?

We also have to consider quality control. Nobody wants to smoke weed filled with pesticides, who is going to make sure that what makes it to the store is safe to smoke? *the word "safe" being used loosely in that sentence*

We're standing on the forefront of the difference between legalization and decriminalization. Legalization will require answers to all of the questions I listed above. Decriminalization will simply mean "we're not going to arrest you if you're smoking" but will not provide any framework to support an industry of any sort.

I can feel the winds of change blowing strong in California, but it's too early to say which direction they are taking us. In the meantime, I'm going to keep my eyes and ears open...

i can answer some of those questions. and not with bullshit answers. those questions are answered in the initiative proposed for november. well most of them....

first off id like to say that i totally agree with your statment about demand. but one thing you will not be able to do, and this is in the initiative, is transport or sell marijuana outside the state or country.

(i will highlight this stuff in the bill if you dont believe me, im just sayen)


DUI's while driving stoned. not in the bill how they will test it. sadly it will probably be the same as they do now. with a piss or blood tests that only can prove if youve smoked in last couple months not in the last few minutes or hours. anyway if your not completely hopeless a little visine and cologne go a long way. smoke with the window down or dont smoke in the car at all. ive been pulled over many times high, in fact id say almost every time im pulled over im high!! lol never had a dui for herb.or even a suspicion of driving high. but i was lol

as far as medical users and dispensaries are concerned, this initiative explicitly protects our rights under prop 215 and sb 420. the way shit works today for medi patients is exactly the way it will work for medi patients after the bill passes. the only difference is that anyone can buy at a dispensary (over 21), and a medi patient can buy anywhere (like coffee shops). the grow limits will not effect medi growers. the 5x5 is for recreational users 21 and over. medi people still can grow there 12 immature or 6 mature plants in whatever size area you wish. unless you county says otherwise (since some already have canopy size laws for medi guys. mine does not) all that info is in the bill

as far as commercial cultivation, transportation and sale, that will be left up to local governments to determine the quality and safety standards and regulations. just like how the laws with dispensaries very from county to county and city to city, so will the regulations for providing recreational/commercial herb. that is in the bill
there is also a draft of a regulatory bill that sets a great framework, which is not attached to the current bill, but i suspect it will be the basis for the framework that the local govts use to regulate commercial growing.


the winds are changing indeed! this bill makes a lot of sence and is a huge leap forward for the cannabis community as a whole. from your medi patients to commercial cultivators to home gardeners and recreational smokers.

 

[igrowone]

the consequences in the California workplace are quite interesting
MJ testing for jobs that involve machinery and/or safety will probably not change much
but it's for the other jobs that it's going to get interesting
i could definitely see lawsuits for MJ testing/dismissals popping up very quickly if Cali legalization becomes real
can employers do firings based on federal law and ignore state law?
this could be a very interesting court issue
the big winner? the lawyers of course