C.L.S. Mistakes, Failures and Malfunctions...

[JointOperation]

great idea for a thread.. stay safe guys... can we mention if these systems were DIY or PREBUILT. or ?

just so people who buy them know which are failing. or what problems we can expect with these systems.. im about to buy one before april but want to research everything to do with it before i spend the money.

 

[Chonkski]

Idea for discussion:
Painting the inside of the carbon steel tanks everyone is using now.

1: Take a new tank or properly cleaned and prepared used tank (assuming the tanks are bare steel inside). If the tank is not bare steel inside consult a paint or machine shop about acid or solvent cleaning the inside to bare metal.
2: Prep with solvent rinse.
3: Pour in paint and roll tank to thoroughly coat the inside.
4: Pour out extra paint and leave tank upside down while paint cures.
5: Clean threads and install valve.

Paint: My thought is to use two part epoxy which does not need air to cure. A coating which can handle hydrocarbons and be food grade should be fairly easy to spec. I can help with this and sourcing if anyone feels like trying it.

Ideas? Thoughts? Suggestions?

Not sure about that, the first thing that comes to mind is the heat transfer rate being completely diminished, also making it hard for the solvent vapors to condense.

So the pressure would keep rising throughout the process, am I wrong? Just spitballing. As I've mentioned before, I'm still young n dumb around here. Mostly here to learn

 

[Gray Wolf]

Now the other topic in this thread: the rusty tanks.

Stainless tanks would be a great option. The only ones I have found are very pricey. If we can find stainless options it seems it would be best.

Idea for discussion:
Painting the inside of the carbon steel tanks everyone is using now.

1: Take a new tank or properly cleaned and prepared used tank (assuming the tanks are bare steel inside). If the tank is not bare steel inside consult a paint or machine shop about acid or solvent cleaning the inside to bare metal.
2: Prep with solvent rinse.
3: Pour in paint and roll tank to thoroughly coat the inside.
4: Pour out extra paint and leave tank upside down while paint cures.
5: Clean threads and install valve.

Paint: My thought is to use two part epoxy which does not need air to cure. A coating which can handle hydrocarbons and be food grade should be fairly easy to spec. I can help with this and sourcing if anyone feels like trying it.

Ideas? Thoughts? Suggestions?

I've used Slosh to seal aircraft and classic car fuel tanks, but not sure how it would work with butane.

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/cs/fueltanksealants.html

 

[GratefulOne]

I have a back ground in thermoplastic coatings. I have not looked but am sure there are epoxies which can handle hydrocarbons and still be food grade.

The heat exchange would be slowed down some. If the tank is dunked into a bath it should still move heat plenty fast enough.

Super chilling tanks is dangerous. The steel gets really brittle and is only designed to get so cold. Be careful super chilling tanks not designed for it. Think about cooling the tank and super chilling the butane at the injection port.

You would still need to be bleeding off the water to prevent it from entering the injection stream but a painted tank should solve the rust issue.

 

[GratefulOne]

Is anyone using two tanks for recovery to separate water?

The idea:

Recovery Pump --> Heat Exchanger --> Tank 1 (wet tank)

The "wet tank" catches the water. Then distill the butane to a second dry tank leaving the water behind.

I still think rust will be an issue doing this but it may be a huge help to isolate the water from the injection stream.

Ideas? Anyone with experience doing this?

 

[GratefulOne]

20 inch pounds (Pg 9) is the lowest I've seen by a manufacturer for the two bolt high pressure clamp, and note that their Torquerite bolts (Pg 10) are 30 and 50 inch pounds.

Note that 20 in pound is NOT for the “high pressure” bolted clamps. It is for the T-Bolt clamps.

The high pressure clamps - bolted clamps - show 20 FOOT pounds of torque.

I have not seen ANY source of the high pressure bolted clamps saying anything other than 20 FOOT pounds.

Glacier sells Dixon clamps - all sizes call for 20 FOOT pounds:
https://dixonvalve.com/product/13MHP600

That being said the gasket manufactures say PTFE should seal with 50 inch pounds of torque. Don't apply more torque than you need to get a seal so you don't mash the PTFE flat early.

 

[flatslabs]

Glacier also specifies on some of their pages the 20ft/lb number as well (obviously as they are sourced from dixon), just wanted to point that out again.

Steel Coated Bolts and Brass Nuts(torque to 20 lbs)

 

[pharmco]

Yes, hello. Roji here. I'll just pop into the lab for a quick extraction and take the rest of Sunday off. It'll be great, I said...

So I'm tearing down the system after recovery and what's this? A broken screen under the column? Odd... wait... wheres my filters?

OH SHIIIIIII-

NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

That'll be a complete rebuild. Who needs days off anyways. Ill run the recovered weed/live resin goop pile tomorrow in my little column.
GOSH!

What do you think caused this? Perhaps you ran too cold with the butane? I know that viton is only rated for -10 F

 

[Roji]

What do you think caused this? Perhaps you ran too cold with the butane? I know that viton is only rated for -10 F

I think GW nailed it. Velocity due to not venting before a dump. The material "pack" was at the top of the column instead of the bottom like usual.

 

[pharmco]

Ohhhh, that makes a good deal of sense.

Absolutely nightmarish, although your plan to salvage it sounds like a good one.

 

[A6 Grower]

Another cute and exciting trick, is to recover the system as normal, including the final pull to -29" Hg, and then to valve off the column and change the lower pot.

Next, leave the column sealed over night and next morning, undo the top clamp without venting it first.

I did that to a 1 1/2" column once, and to a 4" one once, to show you how hard I can be to train sometimes. Exciting to suddenly launch the lid and empty the contents of the column straight up.

The picture of the blown out screen reminded me of it, because I also blew out a 4" screen opening the dump before the vent, after it had been sitting overnight.

Shit i just had this happen today, didnt even let the tube sit long. I finished a run and before i scrapped up and setup for the next run i ate lunch real quick. Scrapped/poured out my run, then like an idiot just went and took the clamps off the top of the column and got a nice shower of weed. Ive done this twice now lol, once with a 1.5x24 tube and now with a 4x24 tube... Moral of the story, don't do what i just said....lol

 

[Hydrosun]

Is anyone using two tanks for recovery to separate water?

The idea:

Recovery Pump --> Heat Exchanger --> Tank 1 (wet tank)

The "wet tank" catches the water. Then distill the butane to a second dry tank leaving the water behind.

I still think rust will be an issue doing this but it may be a huge help to isolate the water from the injection stream.

Ideas? Anyone with experience doing this?

If the H2O makes it out of our recovery pot and into tank 1, why wouldn't the H2O vaporize and make its way to tank 2?

My guess is the GW flip tank open vapor port, expel water, and then connect to the CLS is going to be my S.O.P. until we get a better dryer filter solution.

 

[GratefulOne]

If the H2O makes it out of our recovery pot and into tank 1, why wouldn't the H2O vaporize and make its way to tank 2?

My guess is the GW flip tank open vapor port, expel water, and then connect to the CLS is going to be my S.O.P. until we get a better dryer filter solution.

I have the same thoughts and concerns. Just putting ideas out there to see what you guys think or have tried.

 

[A6 Grower]

I to have wondered about multiple tanks. I have thought about getting a 400# to store a shit ton of butane then every morning fill what tanks i need then do my days run then at the end of the day distill it all back into the tank through a column full of 3a beads or something. Also not recovering past 0hg and using 75F water. I would think this would help keep water out of the main tank but its just a theory, lol i have lots of those

 

[HL45]

Another cute and exciting trick, is to recover the system as normal, including the final pull to -29" Hg, and then to valve off the column and change the lower pot.

Next, leave the column sealed over night and next morning, undo the top clamp without venting it first.

I did that to a 1 1/2" column once, and to a 4" one once, to show you how hard I can be to train sometimes. Exciting to suddenly launch the lid and empty the contents of the column straight up.

The picture of the blown out screen reminded me of it, because I also blew out a 4" screen opening the dump before the vent, after it had been sitting overnight.

I was working with someone and they did the same thing. I was behind them scraping a collection pot and putting it on parchment paper. All of the sudden I heard a big BOOM!!!!! I was scared, really scared. . They were opening the top triclamp and is soon as it got slightly loose it blew off emptying a 4" column completely while blasting them in the face with material. We were in a modified carport building with foam board insulation. Material got all over the workplace including stems that had impaled the foam board like a dart at least two inches. Over a year later I could still find stems in the foam board. Luckily the stainless tubing held the endcap and sightglass on firmly or they could have gotten some serious damage . Their face looked very red like it had been slapped or blasted with sand. . we were both shook up for a while....

a good reason to have an additional pressure guage on the other side of the dump valve.

I've tried to adopt a Santa clause approach..make a list, check it twice...

 

[Permacultuure]

It sucked and hurt.....but I'll never do it again. A trainee just did with a taller 4" column so it was more like a New Years celebration. Still shook him up pretty good. I always say, the pressure can be the most dangerous part

 

[Hydrosun]

I too have showered myself by opening the tri clamp of a 2"x36" column. My lid is connected to a SS braided hose so it didn't shoot to the moon, but the material splashed all over my face and covered the underside of the overhang I was working under. The witnesses laughed and now I undo the braided fill hose releasing all pressure before removing the column form the system.

 

[A6 Grower]

lol im really glad this is a common thing... Probably the safest/funniest accident with these machines... Good times....

 

[krunchbubble]

You know whats NOT funny? -40 degree alchy and dry ice in your eye!

When your putting new dry ice in your alchy filled container, do NOT drop the tank in, gentle slide that bitch in, or your in a world of hurt for a while!

NOBODY brings up the need for safety goggles!

You guys are laughing about tubes blowing up. Well, what if it was oil laden and very gooey, and that fucker shot 100mph into your eye? Your NOT going to have an eye anymore!

I haven't had a tube blow up all over me, but I had the pressure of a tube blow in my face and windburn right above my eye, which hurt for a good hour or so...

Goggles for the motherfucking win! Im shocked they are not a requirement!

 

[GratefulOne]

You know whats NOT funny? -40 degree alchy and dry ice in your eye!

When your putting new dry ice in your alchy filled container, do NOT drop the tank in, gentle slide that bitch in, or your in a world of hurt for a while!

NOBODY brings up the need for safety goggles!

You guys are laughing about tubes blowing up. Well, what if it was oil laden and very gooey, and that fucker shot 100mph into your eye? Your NOT going to have an eye anymore!

I haven't had a tube blow up all over me, but I had the pressure of a tube blow in my face and windburn right above my eye, which hurt for a good hour or so...

Goggles for the motherfucking win! Im shocked they are not a requirement!

Glad to hear your ok. That must of hurt at that temp.

Eye protection, gloves, long pants (to keep liquids out of your shoes- I saw super heated water fill a guys shoes one time. The meat came off nearly to the bone. Seems super chilled liquids filling shoes could also do some serious damage). Don't forget the easy stuff we are not harping on around this forum. That stuff matters.