By far and without a doubt, the least expensive conventional, synthetic fertilizers

[IwannatokeNbone]

all the grow methods like kiss or ''the cheapest'' are just a one part bandwagon thread usually, there seems to be no diversity as everyone just wants to copy either maxi bloom or jacks, if they work great but what wont work? not sure if theres a bloom nute out there by a company that doesnt work, i think were kidding ourselves that were buying differant dry ferts or diff wet ferts that have some kind of special tap water in them, its all the same stuff im afraid.

 

[YosemiteSam]

If you are saying the raw salts are the same whether we get them from a nute company or buy them ourselves you are mostly correct...although there are a few things available that some of us use that I have not seen used by nute companies.

If you are saying we all end up using basically the same ratios you are totally wrong. I am way closer to Steiner ratios than anything a nute company puts out. Start going high on Ca...say a 3:2 ratio with K:Ca and find me a nute company that does that. It takes some imagination to get there.

It ain't for everyone. But don't simply dismiss what you don't understand. it can be very rewarding.

 

[turbolaser4528]

Yes, most regular nutrients require a cal-mag or Si supplement.


With the salts, can one use gram sized spoons instead of a scale to measure? (legal repercussions of having scale near grow)

YosemiteSam's plants speak for themselves. Never seen 3-4 lb plants that healthy in coco!

Great thread btw.

 

[woolybear]

I have started using the Jack's Bloom Booster on my crops. Will be able to do a comparison with my dansk diesel and some other plants.

 

[IwannatokeNbone]

If you are saying the raw salts are the same whether we get them from a nute company or buy them ourselves you are mostly correct...although there are a few things available that some of us use that I have not seen used by nute companies.

If you are saying we all end up using basically the same ratios you are totally wrong. I am way closer to Steiner ratios than anything a nute company puts out. Start going high on Ca...say a 3:2 ratio with K:Ca and find me a nute company that does that. It takes some imagination to get there.

It ain't for everyone. But don't simply dismiss what you don't understand. it can be very rewarding.

can u elaborate on steiners ratios more please, u mean rudolf's? if so please tell, he was pretty interesting, i feel that if u dont over N your plant in there life and give them the other nutes they generally do quite well, 20-20-20 will work all the way through, the plant knows what to take n what to leave behind

 

[YosemiteSam]

This is Steiner...it is a tomato formula. Oddly enough I find it to work very well for marijuana. I go a little higher on Mg although I am currently experimenting to see if that is needed. K is always about double N. Ca is very high compared to any bottled nute deal.

Transplant to 4th Cluster
70-90 24 150-200 9 0 2 5 1.5 1 0.5 0.2 0.1 0.1
4th Cluster to 6th Cluster
Parts Per Million 90-110
40 200-250 100-150 40 2.5 2 1 0.4 0.2 0.1
6th Cluster to Maturity
110-125 48 250-300 150-175 50 3 2 1 0.4 0.2 0.1

 

[blank85]

can u elaborate on steiners ratios more please, u mean rudolf's? if so please tell, he was pretty interesting, i feel that if u dont over N your plant in there life and give them the other nutes they generally do quite well, 20-20-20 will work all the way through, the plant knows what to take n what to leave behind

Its about having the right nutrients available at all times. Its all in the ratio. I wouldn't feed a plant 20-20-20 throughout its entire life. Got to cut back on N during flowering.

If you mix a solution with too much N dont expect your plant to not absorb any "because it knows what it wants." This is stupid thinking.

 

[tester]

The other thing is even if plant "knows what it want's", it doesn't want the same thing as the grower does.
It wants to survive, while the grower want's a dead plant with high cannabinod content.
Classic example is excess N that leads to delayed flowering, harder to root clones, makes the plant more susceptible to pests, bigger yield but lower cannabinoid content etc.

A lot of NPK ratios (excuse me Spurr) works, but we don't know which one is the best (under given environment in the aspect of yield and cannabinoid content.)

Since relatively small differences in yield can make huge differences in profit (for example +/-10 grams per plant mean nothing in case of tomatoes, but means something with cannabis.)
That's why I would like to choose the best NPK profile even if the difference is "small" when it comes to harvest.

 

[IwannatokeNbone]

i spoke about nitrogen earlier, to much is usually a problem starter in some form.

 

[blank85]

i spoke about nitrogen earlier, to much is usually a problem starter in some form.

Duh. So where your plants dude.... seriously?

 

[Milhouse]

I thought I would throw up a few pics of my first plant harvested using Scotts Professional + Calc Nit + a few random leftover supplements. I firmly believe that this was my healthiest round of this pheno yet! I have run it three times now, first from seed and twice from clone. Have another clone in veg now and plan to run it under these nutes for further testing.

The strain is Magenta99 (Pakistan Chitral Kush x DTC99) from Dutchgrown Seeds. I also have a DTC99 F2 from Dutchgrown Seeds which is about completed that was grown with Jacks also and is turning out beautiful.

 

[turbolaser4528]

I thought I would throw up a few pics of my first plant harvested using Jacks + Calc Nit + a few random leftover supplements. I firmly believe that this was my healthiest round of this pheno yet! I have run it three times now, first from seed and twice from clone. Have another clone in veg now and plan to run it under these nutes for further testing.

The strain is Magenta99 (Pakistan Chitral Kush x DTC99) from Dutchgrown Seeds. I also have a DTC99 F2 from Dutchgrown Seeds which is about completed that was grown with Jacks also and is turning out beautiful.

Sir, those look excellent, very dank indeed!

How are you measuring out the jacks calnit? spoons or scales? I want to avoid having scales at the location hehe, hard to be as precise with measuring spoons though right?

I am curious which additives you used, and under what lighting you grew these ladies under.


Feelings on Drip Clean by H n'G?

 

[Milhouse]

I am by no means precise when i measure, I actually use the little scoop that comes in the Jack's Classic tub when i measure. For those that know what i am talking about, it is by no means perfectly accurate.

As far as amounts, i usually mix b/t 1/2 - 1 tsp / gallon of Scotts Professional Hydro, let that mix for 5-10 min, then mix approx 1/4-1/2 tsp / gal of Calc Nit. Towards later into flowering, I cut down dramatically on the Calc Nitrate due to high N, and started using the leftover Cal/Mag i had lying around. I dont measure that, just pour a little in each time. Other supplements included a sample bottle of Bloombastic i had from a while back and some seaweed a few times. No measurements on either, just poured in what I thought was right.

Those pics were taken on Day 53 of 12/12. Harvested shortly after. I think i can do better with this stuff!! I had some major heat issues towards the end of this run which I know cost me some weight. She was vegged under 2 - 65w CFL for a while and flowered under 440w PL-L lights.

I have never used Drip Clean before, i dont use any flush products. I have thought about using some in the future but they are usually too expensive for me. I am a personal grower so all my shit is done on a budget!!

 

[turbolaser4528]

thanks bro! looks like she yielded well for ya, very frosty and healthy for ya.

Jacks + Calc Nit for me it seems, maybe some Silicon, Kool-Bloom and drip clean in coco w smart/air pots.

Or straight up maxibloom hollaaa

Way cheaper than conventional nutes, I would like to find a super concentrated powdered form of fulvics/kelp/aminos/carbs but I am at a loss..

 

[Milhouse]

Here are a few pics of DTC99 at day 53 under Scotts/Peters Professional + Calc Nit. The larger colas are about the length of my forearm.

 

[*mistress*]

can u elaborate on steiners ratios more please, u mean rudolf's? if so please tell, he was pretty interesting, i feel that if u dont over N your plant in there life and give them the other nutes they generally do quite well, 20-20-20 will work all the way through, the plant knows what to take n what to leave behind

from:Making your own Nutrients(by cyberwax)

the base steiner formula, consisting of two 4 liter stock solutions

stock solution part 1
calcium nitrate (15.5% n, 19% ca) @ 364.9 g (12.9 oz)

stock solution part 2
monopotassium phosphate (22.7% p, 28.5%k) @ 83.1 g (2.9 oz)
potassium nitrate (13.75% n, 38% k) @ 55 g (1.9 oz)
potassium sulfate (43% k, 17.5% s) @ 177.2 g (6.3 oz)
iron edta (13% fe) @ 8.7 g (up to 14.5 g when feeding high mn)
zinc edta (14% zn) @ 0.5 g
copper edta (14% cu) @ 0.3 g (up to 1.3 g under intense ligh to reduce fruit cracking)
manganese edta (12% mn) @ 3.1 g
sodium molybdate (39.6% mo) @ 0.1 g
borax or sodium borate (11.3% b) @ 3.3 g

stock solution part 3
epsom salt or magnesium sulfate (9.76% mg, 13% s) @ 193.1 g (6.8 oz)

[making working solution]
this should make 100 gal of stock solution.

to make into working solution, add 1 liter of ea stock solution per 25 gal of final diluted nutrient solution.

full strength should be 170 ppm nitrogen. ec 2.0-2.2. 1300-1430 total ppm.

if need 50% solution, use only 0.5 liter of ea per 25 gal...

the formula works weel in soilless mixes such as peat + perlite + vermiculite., the so-called 'peat-lite' mixes widely used in the greenhouse & nursery industries, & in bark mixes & compost + soil mixes. generally, because of the buffering effects of high organic matter in these mixes, the gardener can increase the feed rates slightly (110-120%) as required for optimum growth of the plant being cultured.

if growing in sand, pebbles, rockwool, or other inert, inorganic substrates, use rates of 100% or less.
when used on solid media, apply enough solution @ ea watering to displace the previously applied fert. this helps minimize dangers of salt build-up.

most of the "20-20-20" formulas contain mostly ammonium and/or urea nitrogen in the "%20"-"N" portion of the ratio... "hydroponic" or "soilless" formulas contain mostly nitrate nitrogen. the difference is that ammounium nitrogen will generally make the ph drop (decline) in the medium, after cation exchange occurs... nitrate nitrogen will generally make the ph rise in the medium, after cation exchange....

urea nitrogen is largely unavailable to soilless/hydroponic plant roots. in soilless/hydroponics, the gardener supplies the elements in a soluble, usable form.... without the need for any further catalytic conversion to a usable form....

nitrate nitrogen is ready for uptake, urea is not. if using soil, 20-20-20 may work well for soil, but with soil-less mixes, the nitrate:ammounium nitrogen ratio is generally 5:1, or even %100 nitrate....

different elements are available at different ph's.... some elements may become totally unavailable (insoluble) if the ph is not in their range of solubility, even if large amounts are present in the rootzone.

Jack's (Peters) Fertilizer, 20-20-20
Total Nitrogen (N) 20%
2.1% Nitrate Nitrogen
17.9% Urea Nitrogen
Available Phosphate (P2O5) 20%
Soluble Potash (K2O) 20%

for comparison: gh maxi-bloom:

Total Nitrogen (N) 5%
0.5% Ammoniacal
4.5% Nitrate

hope this helps.

 

[Milhouse]

I am wondering if that is why my veg plants didnt look as lush green as they should of. I have been feeding with Jacks Classic Orchid mix (30-10-10). Just looked it up and only has less than 2% Nitrate N, 28% Urea. My flower plants on the other hand look great, they are being fed Scotts Professional + Calc Nitrate which has considerably more Nitrate N than Jacks Classic.

 

[orange juice]

Coming in on the home stretch of my new girls and they're looking great. Big thanks to Sam for the advice he posted here, turns out I needed to cut down on the calnit and up the jacks even more. Mg and Si were not a prob but once I up the jacks and lower the calnit I stopped adding epsom salts for the most part, still add Si every water though.

That said I'd give a warning to those following what *mistress* said a few pages back. I wasted a good part of a year with huge problems cuz of the 1:1 ratio and "3-5g/gal calnit" info he had posted. I was having cal deficiency problems and figured I needed more calnit since this guy was saying 1:1 ratio with 3g+ calnit was good. Turned out to be awful advice for all 3 of my strains, once I dropped to around 1.6g/gal calnit and 3.3g/gal jacks as a base then adjust from there (sometimes going closer to 2/3 ratio) things went so much better. Anyone have success with 3+g/gal calnit? I dunno seems way too hot for any cannabis strains I have...

 

[VagPuncher]

Awesome name - Orange Juice.

 

[turbolaser4528]

Coming in on the home stretch of my new girls and they're looking great. Big thanks to Sam for the advice he posted here, turns out I needed to cut down on the calnit and up the jacks even more. Mg and Si were not a prob but once I up the jacks and lower the calnit I stopped adding epsom salts for the most part, still add Si every water though.

That said I'd give a warning to those following what *mistress* said a few pages back. I wasted a good part of a year with huge problems cuz of the 1:1 ratio and "3-5g/gal calnit" info he had posted. I was having cal deficiency problems and figured I needed more calnit since this guy was saying 1:1 ratio with 3g+ calnit was good. Turned out to be awful advice for all 3 of my strains, once I dropped to around 1.6g/gal calnit and 3.3g/gal jacks as a base then adjust from there (sometimes going closer to 2/3 ratio) things went so much better. Anyone have success with 3+g/gal calnit? I dunno seems way too hot for any cannabis strains I have...

ouch, Idk if mistress is a dude, sounds like a chick name to me !

YoSem n a few others seem to suggest the 3:2 or 1:.66 ratio.

I guess it depends on strain and other factors??

Drop the calcium nitrate gradually lowering in proportion to the jacks towards the end of flowering, prior to the flush???

No bloom boosters with this formula, I wonder how it can yield though...hmm must try it myself!