Brick Coco - damaging grow?

[Daffy]

For those saying its better to flush because of twisting, curly growth,the sunleaves brick coir is triple pre rinsed same as their bagged stuff. directions were to rehydrate, then use. I think he cause more likely is attributed to lack of nutrients (caused by lack of nutrients or improp texture not excess sodium)/overfert-imbalance, CEC or AEC, (find out about: http://soils.tfrec.wsu.edu/webnutritiongood/soilprops/04CEC.htm ) problem. What I'm getting to amend it first with all purpose (I use marine cuisine, is a healthy mix) but something to give a good balance ferts, cations + anions. I might be wrong but I just don't believe the whole exc ess sodium theory not for a minute. It doesn't make sense from a business perspective. For several reasons but mainly if everyone believes that their product must be rinsed using a shit ton of water and electricity(hot water) costing the difference in price to the premo stuff add the labor, why would someone continue buying sunleaves if they were rational? For sunleaves and any business really its about return customers and profit. Cocotek, botanicare, etc. make a handsome premium offering coco that is slightly more consistent, better quality(not even really, I like the sunleaves just fine, but sometimes there's too much long fiber not enough croutons which I don't like, sometimes) to those willing to pay. Sunleaves sells slightly inferior, but at a handsome discount. IMO the discount is greater than the difference in results if you know what you're doing. The same goes for expensive nutes vs kiss or organics.

 

[buddin_904]

There's a saying, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cured.

If I'm checking the pH and ppm of my run off and I notice the pH is too acidic (say pH of 4.8) and the ppm is 2500 when I feed 700 I know that I'm not having enough run off, and my medium is acidic my plants could and have looked completely healthy at this point but I know I'm going to run into problems. How is this pointless? Even if the plants never run into problems and I correct this I'm just dialing in my garden even more making it more efficient, likely improving yield, and making my medium that much safer to re-use.

It's cool if you're lazy and think this is pointless just don't expect any grower worth their skin to agree with you.

i said pHing run off is irrelavent....i didnt say pHing ppm is irrelavent....dont misconstrue me

pHing ppm is a good practice as it can tell you of excess salt build up....

it doesnt take a genius to realize that if your ppm is 2500!!!! and your feeding 700ppm that you obviously are either A.overfeeding or B.not supplying enough run off....in your case id say its both

there have been multiple threads on pHing run off and the general consensus is that its a huge waste of time....

but what do i care if you waste your time.....?

 

[buddin_904]

Rezdog, owner of Reservoir seeds, coco grower for ~10 years-ish indoor grower beyond that for another 10 yrs/ 20 total uses a pH of 5.5 for his coco and I think he knows what he's doing.

Flushing is to reduce the hazard of high salt/sodium content usually attributed to poor coco sources where the coco sits on a beach and is exposed to salt water. It's a bit naive to say if you're running drain to waste that there's no point in flushing, if you're running drain to waste with adequate run off that's flushing however you want to look at it. If you're not getting run off with drain to waste you're going to have an accumulation of salts, you may also acidify your medium, and if your coco originally had a high sodium content you're not going to be fixing that. By saying running drain to waste makes flushing irrelevant is like saying I don't need to flush because I flush and call it something else.

practically every brick coco is aged and ran threw monsoon rains to wash away salts and Na......

by saying running to waste makes 'flushing'(running hydrated coco through multiple rinses) irrelavent is TRUE.....with your first couple of waterings(with excess run off than normal) the 'excess' salts will flush themselves out negating the need for this nonsense practice of repeatedly prerinsing brick coco

 

[buddin_904]

For those saying its better to flush because of twisting, curly growth,the sunleaves brick coir is triple pre rinsed same as their bagged stuff. directions were to rehydrate, then use. I think he cause more likely is attributed to lack of nutrients (caused by lack of nutrients or improp texture not excess sodium)/overfert-imbalance, CEC or AEC, (find out about: http://soils.tfrec.wsu.edu/webnutritiongood/soilprops/04CEC.htm ) problem. What I'm getting to amend it first with all purpose (I use marine cuisine, is a healthy mix) but something to give a good balance ferts, cations + anions. I might be wrong but I just don't believe the whole exc ess sodium theory not for a minute. It doesn't make sense from a business perspective. For several reasons but mainly if everyone believes that their product must be rinsed using a shit ton of water and electricity(hot water) costing the difference in price to the premo stuff add the labor, why would someone continue buying sunleaves if they were rational? For sunleaves and any business really its about return customers and profit. Cocotek, botanicare, etc. make a handsome premium offering coco that is slightly more consistent, better quality(not even really, I like the sunleaves just fine, but sometimes there's too much long fiber not enough croutons which I don't like, sometimes) to those willing to pay. Sunleaves sells slightly inferior, but at a handsome discount. IMO the discount is greater than the difference in results if you know what you're doing. The same goes for expensive nutes vs kiss or organics.

daffy obviously is aware of my point at hand....the REAL problem you brick growers are having with bricks is that you arent properly 'charging' them with a nutrient solution......

a comparison would be hydrating a rockwool block with plain water and expecting the plant to take off....no...youll have problems....

 

[maryanne3087]

i said pHing run off is irrelavent....i didnt say pHing ppm is irrelavent....dont misconstrue me

pHing ppm is a good practice as it can tell you of excess salt build up....

it doesnt take a genius to realize that if your ppm is 2500!!!! and your feeding 700ppm that you obviously are either A.overfeeding or B.not supplying enough run off....in your case id say its both

pHing ppm? I want what you're smoking unless it's crack.

How could it be both if my ppm is 700? It could only be from not enough run off. I think it would be fairly obvious it could only be caused from no run off / flushing.

 

[buddin_904]

pHing ppm? I want what you're smoking unless it's crack.

How could it be both if my ppm is 700? It could only be from not enough run off. I think it would be fairly obvious it could only be caused from no run off / flushing.

if your going to do your run with little or no run off and yet you feed at 700ppm, which is an appropriate range...yet still have a ppm run off of 2500...then obviously your still overfeeding, considering your drastic ppm runoffs...even at the 700ppm level....whatever man...i dont think your getting what im saying...obviously give your plants more run off and stick with 700ppm....end of story

for example....if your ppm run off is 2500 and you feed at like idk? 200ppm for a bit with no run off...then you might be able to say your appropriately feeding.....overtime it would eat the 2500ppm still in the pot.....accutally feeding 0ppm would be appropriate if your not running off because it would only feed from the 2500ppm build up...what im saying is anything above 0ppm, when your run off ppm is 2500, is overfeeding.....just flush them already....

 

[buddin_904]

and i didnt mean phing ppm...im not on crack.....i obviously meant checking runoff ppm...

 

[maryanne3087]

and i didnt mean phing ppm...im not on crack.....i obviously meant checking runoff ppm...

It may be obvious to you, but lets keep in mind you're the guy who mixes up four letter words. One can only imagine what you're capable of doing with acronyms.

You have an interesting way of looking at this I didn't exactly include a figure of feeding concentration (ppm) because you said checking the ppm of your run off wasn't important, because you didn't. I used it as an example to illustrate the importance of checking your run off. Acidifying your medium overtime can be just as bad if not worse than having high build up in your medium. So as it stands you say pHing your run off doesn't matter, and I'm saying in case where your medium is acidified you would be better off knowing it's becoming acidic rather than waiting for nutrient deficiency. This isn't very common in coco, but with soil or peat it's very easy to acidify your medium.

 

[alamony2005]

Get a cotton pillow case, stuff a 5 gallon bucket full of coco into it. Turn on garden hose and stuff it in. Let it flood the coco for a few minuets and your done.... if you feel unsafe about tap water being in there, dump in a few gallons of RO water. DONE! water with nutrients a you would normally do. It works. Check my threads if you have any questions.

 

[buddin_904]

It may be obvious to you, but lets keep in mind you're the guy who mixes up four letter words. One can only imagine what you're capable of doing with acronyms.

You have an interesting way of looking at this I didn't exactly include a figure of feeding concentration (ppm) because you said checking the ppm of your run off wasn't important, because you didn't. I used it as an example to illustrate the importance of checking your run off. Acidifying your medium overtime can be just as bad if not worse than having high build up in your medium. So as it stands you say pHing your run off doesn't matter, and I'm saying in case where your medium is acidified you would be better off knowing it's becoming acidic rather than waiting for nutrient deficiency. This isn't very common in coco, but with soil or peat it's very easy to acidify your medium.

wtf are you talking about?!?!!?

1st off....you did include a figure of feeding concentration, 700ppm. and once again your miscontruing/not being able to read....i said checking run off ppm IS APPROPRIATE....youve got alllll your info in this response assbackwards....i cant stand to read what you write because its mostly incorrect words your trying to put in my mouth that i didnt say

and on the acidified medium problem you repeatedly mention....hmmm maybe its because all these 'growers' on this thread are talking about phing to 5.3-5.5.....maybe those acidic #s are the reason you would develop an acidic medium!!??!?!?

 

[maryanne3087]

Okay I think it's fairly obvious you don't have the reading comprehension nor the writing ability to communicate with other members on this forum. I know you have the reading comprehension comparable to an ant hill but I'll throw you a bone. READ very very carefully and slowly. I didn't - as in not for that reason. "Stating you did, followed by you didn't" means you didn't you. You shouldn't be such a troll and insult people when you can't even read man. Are you even 18? I don't think you're legal to be on this website.

You have an interesting way of looking at this I didn't exactly include a figure of feeding concentration (ppm) because you said checking the ppm of your run off wasn't important, because you didn't. I used it as an example to illustrate the importance of checking your run off. Acidifying your medium overtime can be just as bad if not worse than having high build up in your medium. So as it stands you say pHing your run off doesn't matter, and I'm saying in case where your medium is acidified you would be better off knowing it's becoming acidic rather than waiting for nutrient deficiency. This isn't very common in coco, but with soil or peat it's very easy to acidify your medium.

Regardless of how you do things, it's fairly laughable to say not checking the pH of run off is a waste of time especially when there's risk of acidifying the medium.

 

[buddin_904]

""Stating you did, followed by you didn't" means you didn't you."

lol once again i dont no wtf! you are talking about with your nonsenseable rambling....

"acidifying the medium" blah blah blah.........

do some thread searching on phing run off and youll find that its a huge waste of time...consensusly agreed upon.....

 

[maryanne3087]

There's a consensus that 2 and 4 letter words shouldn't be confused in seemingly intelligent conversation.

I don't care if there's a consensus that pHing your run off is bad for your health it doesn't change the fact that it can be used as a diagnosis tool if your plants ever have nutrient deficiencies.

 

[Shcrews]

i have seen good clones get FUCKED UP from cheap coco

not sure what brand it was, just saying....

 

[habeeb]

for bricks, if you want to rinse them

an easy way is to get a lingerie bag, or a garment bag , bought at most grocery stores even, the brick expands the case nicely, and some can fit 2 in depending on size.. its got a zipper so it all stays in nicely

 

[Harinama]

buddin, you seriously have an attitude problem. Can you find some other thread to infest? You've definitely pooped enough on this one.

Yes, 25 yrs experience has taught me to respectfully LISTEN to other viewpoints even if i disagree. You obviously have not learned that lesson.

 

[shitabyss]

I've found the best way to treat bricked coco is to rinse with pH 6.0 water until runoff is clear, then charge with half strength nute solution and 5ml/gal of CalMg @ 5.8pH. My clones never skip a beat now.

I used to have problems with the GH Cocotek bricks when I didn't do this. I find Canna coco to be the best overall though. Don't need to rinse or anything, just charge with same solution.

Next time I need coco I'll pick up some Botanicare 5kg bales and do some tests on my clones to determine what treatment method is best.

 

[maryanne3087]

On topic.

I flush my bricks until the PPM of the water running through the bricks isn't much more than the tap water going in.

I treat them with 700ppm or so nutrient solution, or none at all if seeds are going in (transplants from plugs get 500+ ppm nutrients, seedlings get ~300) I make sure this nutrient solution is steep on K, Ca, and Mg I use Floranova Grow, Calcium Nitrate, Epsom salts, and AN Barricade (aka potassium silicate).

 

[farmdalefurr]

ko-nichiwa bitches...... i was using the botanicare readygro moisture formula for awhile. i really liked how well it drained and how nicely it took feedings. i think they could improve their mix with about 30% more coco. little heavy on the perlite imo. i switched to the coco-tek 5kg brick a couple weeks ago. just threw it in a big rubbermaid container and poured in some ro water let it sit over night and the next day it was good to go. didnt rinse or anything like that and havent had any problems. i also mixed it with perlite and hydroton(unwashed) its coco from here on out.