Black Lives Matter "protest" lol...

[gaiusmarius]

if you have 90 great cops and 10 bad cops you have 10 bad cops. but if the 90 good cops hide the bad shit the 10 cops do, you have a 100 bad cops. i think you would agree with me so far, no?

ok, now turn it around to the protesters. if you have 10 guys lobbing bricks or what ever from among a group of 90 peaceful protesters, is it still a peacfull protest?

 

[nepalnt21]

the difference being the police are supposed to be an organized law enforcement agency with rules and a heirarchy.

many times, protesters call out the douchers.

i remember one a couple months ago where moron mcgillacutty was smashing a sidewalk up with a hammer (d.c. i think, they have those stone curbs)... protesters grabbed his dumbass and handed him directly to police.

if one protest erupts into a riot, but on the other side of the city monks are chanting in peaceful protest, the violent ones don't cancel out the peaceful ones.

but if we have one bad apple cop spoiling the whole bunch, and no accountability in sight, well you already know... the public trust erodes.

 

[Hempy McNoodle]

and what of the nonviolent protesters getting attacked by feds? just collateral damage?

they swooped in and demonstrated our need for criminal justice reform.

Can you give a more specific example of such a non-violent protester being attacked by feds?

 

[Hempy McNoodle]

The more BLM and Antifa "peacefully protest," the more the public dissaproves. So, I hope they keep blocking those freeways during the work commute.

 

[nepalnt21]

i have already given multiple examples.

here's two you can easily find with a search:

"navy sweatshirt batons spray oregon"

"oregon wall of moms"

there's also the guy with the oddly british last name getting snatched up on his way home only to be released later on cause they nabbed the wrong guy... legal maybe, still sounds like some gung ho policing to me. i don't know how you don't see that if the federal cops escalate this, we could see a serious country-wide trampling of constitutional rights coming soon to a street corner near you.

and semi related: remember the trump church photo op? the ample video footage and eyewitness accounts show that the lafayette park protest (an american tradition since our founding fathers' days) was peaceful, and yet trump and barr saw it fit to sick the feddy goons on them, included was battery against australian press.

the first amendment is toilet paper to these guys.

i stand with the keepers of the oath, and the victims of fascist policing.

it's the american way.

patriot until i die.

 

[Brother Nature]

- First of all you would have to remove Tribalism, then all Supremacist religious/political ideologies from politics and religion - then you wouldn't have much left to go with - lol - because they all think they are better than each other - in some way or another - so they all have Supremacist leanings - Whether that's based on skin colour - national/racial identity or who you might pray to or vote for or not - or what football team you support -

- if we were to try and dismantle this human need to feel superior over his fellow man or woman - the need itself would have to be removed - and that might take millions of years of human evolution to accomplish - it all has to do with brain chemistry/anatomy - and the evolution of that - unless some bright spark can find a short-cut -

A huge ego dissolving dose of LSD for every person on earth? In all seriousness, I don't think it's something that will happen quickly either, or even in the time frame the human race has, but I think acknowledgement of this is a part of the first steps and I see a lot of other positive steps humans are taking towards the betterment of the entire human race as opposed to the betterment of a few. For example, the influence of organized religions, while still great, is shrinking compared to previous generations/eras, this helps to break down supremacist/tribalism/etc... type thinking. Knowledge and culture has the ability to spread rapidly through the advancements in technology and this leads to a greater understanding of each other in the long run. And while there are plenty of examples where these things can be negative too, I think all in all the human race is on its way up, despite what most would want you to believe. I mean compared to feudal times were all doing pretty well. At least we're free and capable enough to ponder on these things now and aren't being locked up for heriticism or dissent, well most of us.

maybe changing the system in 1 go requires revolution and violance, but the incremental changes canbe done without violent revolution. but i hear whatyou say, most power structures won't give up their power voluntarily. the question is, what will replace the present system? 99% of all revolutions make things much worse for the population. the violent revolutionaries turn into violent leaders. its worth thinking carefuly before you tear down everything you have for some hope in a better future.

1 thing is clear, we all seem to agree that something has to be done about the ghettos, youths need opportinities to suceed in life. as Rogan said in that interview i posted, if you grow up surrounded by crime, gangs and poverty and you don't have 1 positive roll model, its very hard to make better life descisions.

I just think a system built upon violence and revolution won't accept peaceful dismantling. I don't think it's right really, but it works, look at Cuba. I use that as an example because it illustrates both our points, there was a violent revolution that took down a pretty oppressive government, but then it's replacement wasn't really any better. My own idea would be to replace it with no system, a return to the natural world where man lived at one with nature, a positive symbiotic relationship that benefited both. I also know this is a total fantasy, given the points gypsy made above, so instead of trying to force those ideals on others I simply live my life the way I'd prefer and luckily I have the privilege to do that. I wish I knew the answer to the ghetto question, I personally grew up surrounded by a lot of the same and without good role models to guide me. Took me moving across the world the straighten that out, the weed helps too lol.

 

[gaiusmarius]

some thoughts on these things...

some thoughts on these things...

where we were, are and where we want to be

here is my take on the problems that black people face in todays America. its not all about systemic rascism, or police brutality and misconduct. it's in fact, like most things, complicated. but these are some of mythoughts on the whole BLM thing and why i think they are promoting a false and simplistic narrative about the problems black people face. this narrative if un challenged is directly harmful to society as a whole. for every black life lost to police there are 100 lost to crime and conflict between black people. so obviously the police is not the only guilty party , unless you are saying the only those black lives matter who are killed by police and that would be down right stupid, so lets explore this a bit more in depth.


Some History

did you know black people had their own thriving business district in Tulsa? from wiki:

"Greenwood, Tulsa, also known as "Black Wall Street", was one of the most commercially successful and affluent majority African-American communities in the United States. Booker T. Washington referred to the Greenwood neighborhood as “Negro Wall Street.”[14] Many Americans, including African-Americans, had moved to Oklahoma in hopes of gaining a shot at quick economic gains through the mining and oil industries. Even though African-Americans constituted a small percentage of the overall population in Oklahoma, the percentage of African-Americans in Tulsa had significantly increased to around 12.3 percent during the oil boom. Many African-Americans had come from the Deep South and Kansas because of the opportunity to strike gold because of the rich oil fields. During the Jim Crow era, African-Americans were not allowed to make purchases or services in predominantly white areas. In particular, Oklahoma was known to have some of the harshest and most unjust Jim Crow laws in the country.[citation needed] Some economists theorize this forced many African-Americans to spend their money where they would feel welcomed, effectively insulating cash flow to within the black community and allowing Greenwood to flourish and prosper.[15]

On "Black Wall Street", there were African-American attorneys, real estate agents, entrepreneurs, and doctors who offered their services in the neighborhood.[16] One primary example of the black entrepreneurial spirit is illustrated by J.B. Stradford. He had graduated from Indiana University with a law degree and had moved to Greenwood to purchase various land vacancies in the area. After buying these vacant spaces, he would then sell them to African-American residents for redevelopment so that these empty spaces could be transformed into residential houses and profitable businesses. By 1921, Stradford had been considered one of the wealthiest African-Americans in the country as he owned numerous properties in Greenwood and even had his hotel named after him: Stratford Hotel.[4] In addition to Mr. Stradford, there were also investments and reinvestments into the community. One executive of the local YMCA recalled that there were several barbershops, several grocery stores, and even a funeral home service. Greenwood was known to be an active religious community as there were numerous black-owned churches, Christian youth services, and other religious organizations."

in the end a bunch of racist angry whites burnt the place to the ground due to a dispute about a young lad accused of accosting a young lass. it was insane. loads of people were murdered by a raging mob.

but what i ask myself is what happened, why was it never rebuilt? why was it never duplicated? what changed? you might say racism stopped it being rebuilt, but they achieved it in times of worse rascism to begin with. did they have more of a sense of unity back then? was it the drug war? the segrationist laws? not really sure...


WAR on Drugs

war on drugs/for profit prisons, we know this system is a huge part of the reason for many of the biggest problems we have as a society but specially for minorities and poor people. they get policed more and punished worse. the drug war motivates the violent drug trade and encourages gangs to be formed. it cause many of the bad police interactions to this day. worst of all it disproportionally targets minorities. decriminalize all of it and let the hard stuff be regulated and perscribed by doctors, but stop using it to repress, harass, criminalize and lock up human beings who hurt no one.


SINGLE Parent Families

since the days when black wall street/Tulsa was a thriving black community, something happened to black families, the stats drastically changed and as we know, single parants are the norm, not the exception in the ghetto. we also know that kids from such single parant homes have it much harder in life in many ways and any kids they have tend to go down the same road. maybe it's time to have support programs to keep Fathers in the home where possible rather then making it more worthwhile to have the father living seperatly. someone has to be a father figure to these kids.


Education/Breadwinner Training

schools in poor areas need total revamping, they are more like prisons then schools, including actual police as prison guards! from what i read. the schools are way too full, the teachers are under paid, under motivated and over worked and lacking and decent facilities.

they need to build 2 schools for every 1 in poor areas and they need sports facilities, science labs and motivated teachers, again there should be mentorship for every student, help them take advantage of the scholarships and other support thats out there. teachers in these schools should be specially trained and paid better for working there, not the other way round where the best schools pay the best wages. that way the poor schools end up with crappy teachers. good teachers can make all the difference in a young persons life, again mentoring is the key. you don't get a skilled, engaged and motivated teacher for minimum wage.

but the real key to this is jobs, if the mums and dads have jobs they will automatically set that example to their kid. but for jobs you need law and order...no one wants to hear it right now and i can't believe i'm saying it, but i have thought about it and its my conclusion.


Law and Order

ghettos and poor neighborhoods don't need defunding police, they need way more police, they need to create a situation where law abiding citizens can safely run businesses and own private property. you will need to literally invade those neighborhoods and round up the gang members for re educational boot camps. without law and order the ghetto will always remain the ghetto. i know it sounds nasty, but there is no other way to break the cycle of viollence that has come to rule those streets.

Law and Order = safety and security for law abiding citizens, so that people actually want to live there and raise families. businesses actually feel safe investing and employing locally, so youths can actually get training for other then the gang life. but none of that can happen without law and order on the streets providing security for the residents. who's gonna open a factory there if they have to worry about being robbed all the time by the local gang bangers? even a weed grower should appreciate the benefits of places not getting robbed every day all over the place.



Police Reform/Remaking

police should in fact be paid more, they should be supervised much better and their imunity needs to be taken away. they need to be randomly spied on regularly to see how they are interacting with the citizens. as soon as the power tripping even comes to the surface that most people are suseptible to, you take them for retraining. you have a data base to keep track of how they are doing.
you include 2 years of jujitsu as a precondition to be a cop. make it a hard job to get that pays well as long as they serve the people and don't let the power go to their heads. recruit cops from the community they will be policing. most importantly train them in de escalation and how to keep a cool head under extreme stress. they should be focused on crimes with actual victims. as for deadly force, they should be held to the same standards as anyone else would be.


Mentoring and Youth Centers

you need to bring guys back to the ghetto who succeeded, they need to talk sense into the kids, explain about making good life choices and the importance there of to have a chance at a better life. explain to them how dealing smack will at best get them a few years of money and woman followed by long stints in jail 1 after the other for the rest of their lives, which tend to be short. you need to get this message accross. its a bad deal in the end and only 1 in a 1000 survives to become wealthy and its never the local street dealer, they always land in prison sooner or later. notice we are back at the war on drugs.mentors need to under stand the language these kids speak and give them the truth in that language.


Youth Activity and Training Centers

this is where the mentors mentor, you want to encourage everything wholesome, make them a skate park. put in some ping pong tables, basketball hoops, climbing wall, maybe even a workshop for learning to use tools and make things. have coding classes, swimming etc. but it has to be crime and gang free teritory. every penny you invest in this will help keep kids out of gangs and trouble.


Cummunity Banks

where poor people with business ideas can go to get advise and help to get started, give incentives to start businesses in the community, again law and order will be a precondition to the success of these local businesses. the gvernment should support this with actual money. if you can print trillions out of thin air to save the economy, you can print a billion or 2 to get the poor people a chance to get somewhere. apprentiships should be finacially supported by the gov, so companies and businesses take these guys on for aprentiships. maybe let the local gang members who change their ways have a weed selling shop in their neighborhood.

 

[gaiusmarius]

the difference being the police are supposed to be an organized law enforcement agency with rules and a heirarchy.

many times, protesters call out the douchers.

i remember one a couple months ago where moron mcgillacutty was smashing a sidewalk up with a hammer (d.c. i think, they have those stone curbs)... protesters grabbed his dumbass and handed him directly to police.

if one protest erupts into a riot, but on the other side of the city monks are chanting in peaceful protest, the violent ones don't cancel out the peaceful ones.

but if we have one bad apple cop spoiling the whole bunch, and no accountability in sight, well you already know... the public trust erodes.

i was asking you the question, in your opinion is it still peaceful if 10% of the group are throwing water bottles, shooting fireworks, pointing lazers, setting fires, smashing windows and so on?

another question i have would be, what do you think will happen if nothing happens to the violent 10%?

 

[armedoldhippy]

if you have 90 great cops and 10 bad cops you have 10 bad cops. but if the 90 good cops hide the bad shit the 10 cops do, you have a 100 bad cops. i think you would agree with me so far, no?

ok, now turn it around to the protesters. if you have 10 guys lobbing bricks or what ever from among a group of 90 peaceful protesters, is it still a peacfull protest?

if the peaceful protesters do not cover for the rioters, sure. if i was at a protest, and some low-brow asshole started shit, yes, i'd point him out to cops. you can't let some dumbass tar you with the brush with his name on it. JMO in my original post starting this, the legitimate counter-protesters got into fights with the whites rights asshats trying to start trouble.

 

[Hempy McNoodle]

i have already given multiple examples.

here's two you can easily find with a search:

"navy sweatshirt batons spray oregon"

"oregon wall of moms"

there's also the guy with the oddly british last name getting snatched up on his way home only to be released later on cause they nabbed the wrong guy... legal maybe, still sounds like some gung ho policing to me. i don't know how you don't see that if the federal cops escalate this, we could see a serious country-wide trampling of constitutional rights coming soon to a street corner near you.

and semi related: remember the trump church photo op? the ample video footage and eyewitness accounts show that the lafayette park protest (an american tradition since our founding fathers' days) was peaceful, and yet trump and barr saw it fit to sick the feddy goons on them, included was battery against australian press.

the first amendment is toilet paper to these guys.

i stand with the keepers of the oath, and the victims of fascist policing.

it's the american way.

patriot until i die.

I watched the two that you mentioned and realized that I had seen those already. I have mixed feelings about the Navy dude, but mostly feel that this is justified action. It is questionable. Trump has declared war on an invisible enemy within our country and declared a national emergency, so I believe that gives these feds jurisdictional authority. So, if they needed him to clear out and he refused, than he damn well should have known what could happen.

The Moms wall is bullshit. None of them are probably even moms. Their slogan is 'by any means necessary.' These people are lunatics screaming 'leave our kids alone' utter nonsense. This is madness and these people need to go home and get a life and a grip on themselves because they aren't accomplishing a goddamn thing. I think it wont be long until black america turns away from BLM. These fucking losers are shining lasers in their eyes and permanently blinding them in some cases. Fuck them, throw them in prison for their crimes and clear the streets. George Floyd wasn't even dead in that video. It is so sad to live in a country that would believe that a person can be asphyxiated by pressure to the BACK of the neck. The human jaw bone is the thickness that it is for a reason. And then, when they rolled him over, his neck was clearly stiff (from having been uncomfortably knelt on for 8 minutes), rather than limp. You can clearly see him trying to go limp and having slight difficulty. So, do we re-write the science of neurology in order to make the case that his neck could have some how not been limp even though he was dead at that point. No.

 

[shaggyballs]

I watched the two that you mentioned and realized that I had seen those already. I have mixed feelings about the Navy dude, but mostly feel that this is justified action. It is questionable. Trump has declared war on an invisible enemy within our country and declared a national emergency, so I believe that gives these feds jurisdictional authority. So, if they needed him to clear out and he refused, than he damn well should have known what could happen.

The Moms wall is bullshit. None of them are probably even moms. Their slogan is 'by any means necessary.' These people are lunatics screaming 'leave our kids alone' utter nonsense. This is madness and these people need to go home and get a life and a grip on themselves because they aren't accomplishing a goddamn thing. I think it wont be long until black america turns away from BLM. These fucking losers are shining lasers in their eyes and permanently blinding them in some cases. Fuck them, throw them in prison for their crimes and clear the streets. George Floyd wasn't even dead in that video. It is so sad to live in a country that would believe that a person can be asphyxiated by pressure to the BACK of the neck. The human jaw bone is the thickness that it is for a reason. And then, when they rolled him over, his neck was clearly stiff (from having been uncomfortably knelt on for 8 minutes), rather than limp. You can clearly see him trying to go limp and having slight difficulty. So, do we re-write the science of neurology in order to make the case that his neck could have some how not been limp even though he was dead at that point. No.

Just before george died or whatever.

You can see he is strong enough to lift his shoulder off the ground.
That cop was a twig compared to george.

We do not have all the facts on this matter and we may never have them.

Watch george almost lift the cop up off the ground.

 

[Hempy McNoodle]

And, then we find out that Floyd and Chauvin worked closely together for over a year until the COVID shutdown. Nothing to see here. Questioning thingz is Racist!

 

[nepalnt21]

I watched the two that you mentioned and realized that I had seen those already. I have mixed feelings about the Navy dude, but mostly feel that this is justified action. It is questionable. Trump has declared war on an invisible enemy within our country and declared a national emergency, so I believe that gives these feds jurisdictional authority. So, if they needed him to clear out and he refused, than he damn well should have known what could happen.

The Moms wall is bullshit. None of them are probably even moms. Their slogan is 'by any means necessary.' These people are lunatics screaming 'leave our kids alone' utter nonsense. This is madness and these people need to go home and get a life and a grip on themselves because they aren't accomplishing a goddamn thing. I think it wont be long until black america turns away from BLM. These fucking losers are shining lasers in their eyes and permanently blinding them in some cases. Fuck them, throw them in prison for their crimes and clear the streets. George Floyd wasn't even dead in that video. It is so sad to live in a country that would believe that a person can be asphyxiated by pressure to the BACK of the neck. The human jaw bone is the thickness that it is for a reason. And then, when they rolled him over, his neck was clearly stiff (from having been uncomfortably knelt on for 8 minutes), rather than limp. You can clearly see him trying to go limp and having slight difficulty. So, do we re-write the science of neurology in order to make the case that his neck could have some how not been limp even though he was dead at that point. No.

speaking of gish gallop.

1) jurisdictional authority involves cases on federal property and/ or having to do with federal crimes. they can't just take over policing a city. and if you think beating a peaceful, standing, 1st amendment practicing veteran with batons (breaking his hand) and spraying him with pain receptor stimulants is a reasonable thing to do, why not move to china or north korea? you would love it in either place, with all the forced bootlicking.

2) even if every single mom in the wall of moms was lying about being a mom, what was their crime again? federal crime! lying? again, have fun in a country without free speech protection; i'll stay here and voice my opinion loud and clear.

3) 2 autopsy reports give the cause of death as homicide, unless you know something i don't. if so, please provide evidence i can review.

 

[nepalnt21]

And, then we find out that Floyd and Chauvin worked closely together for over a year until the COVID shutdown. Nothing to see here. Questioning thingz is Racist!

how about jumping to a conclusion that tries to supercede expert opinion BECAUSE YOU HAVE QUESTIONS is a logical fallacy (appeal to ignorance)

 

[Hempy McNoodle]

how about jumping to a conclusion that tries to supercede expert opinion BECAUSE YOU HAVE QUESTIONS is a logical fallacy (appeal to ignorance)

Nice try. Blindly accepting what authority tells you, despite clear evidence of the contrary and using that to counter real evidence is a logical fallacy.

 

[mean mr.mustard]

Just before george died or whatever.

You can see he is strong enough to lift his shoulder off the ground.
That cop was a twig compared to george.

We do not have all the facts on this matter and we may never have them.

Watch george almost lift the cop up off the ground.

So George Floyd isn't dead??

 

[Hempy McNoodle]

He may or may not be, but he wasn't killed by those cops in that video.

 

[mean mr.mustard]

He may not be...?

Is he in Guantanamo with the Clintons?

 

[Gry]

I watched the two that you mentioned and realized that I had seen those already. I have mixed feelings about the Navy dude, but mostly feel that this is justified action. It is questionable. Trump has declared war on an invisible enemy within our country and declared a national emergency, so I believe that gives these feds jurisdictional authority. So, if they needed him to clear out and he refused, than he damn well should have known what could happen.

The Moms wall is bullshit. None of them are probably even moms. Their slogan is 'by any means necessary.' These people are lunatics screaming 'leave our kids alone' utter nonsense. This is madness and these people need to go home and get a life and a grip on themselves because they aren't accomplishing a goddamn thing. I think it wont be long until black america turns away from BLM. These fucking losers are shining lasers in their eyes and permanently blinding them in some cases. Fuck them, throw them in prison for their crimes and clear the streets. George Floyd wasn't even dead in that video. It is so sad to live in a country that would believe that a person can be asphyxiated by pressure to the BACK of the neck. The human jaw bone is the thickness that it is for a reason. And then, when they rolled him over, his neck was clearly stiff (from having been uncomfortably knelt on for 8 minutes), rather than limp. You can clearly see him trying to go limp and having slight difficulty. So, do we re-write the science of neurology in order to make the case that his neck could have some how not been limp even though he was dead at that point. No.

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]For Posterity [/FONT]

 

[armedoldhippy]

He may not be...?

Is he in Guantanamo with the Clintons?

LOL! too rich, man. is Elvis, Hendrix & Tom Petty down there parting with them too?