Benefits of Vertical Growing

[Ichabod Crane]

The reason I came here to talk about this is simply because I think it's wrong that vert is portrayed by some to be so much more efficient in practice than horizontal. I think there's very little between them.
It can be if the grow requires it to be. In my space you will never get the yield I get with a flat grow. But it will take more effort to get that increase yield. It is just more efficient with the space I have. Maybe not in your grow but deffinately in my grow

For me that thread is all about the numbers, that's all. If people keep to the subject then, even if certain styles of approach are challenging, the right things still come out of it. Even if people flat out disagree with each other, the numbers don't lie, you know... that's what it's all about.

My numbers don't lie.

There definitely isn't as much in it as I think some people are led to believe and I think the premise on the first page of "yields horizontal can't compete with" should be tied in with the reality that, in practice and for many reasons, horizontal often out-yields it.

There is a lot of training that goes into growing vert. If you don't learn it you will not get the yield. Same as flat but maybe a little more less forgiving.

Vertical growing comes with some serious challenges, and it's those challenges that stop it from being the hyper efficient super yielder that a lot of people go into it thinking it will be.
It can be quite difficult to master. To get top yield for flat growing the same can be said. I get a lot of questions in private chat which can attest to the difficulty that vert has.
It's those challenges which ultimately balance the scales with horizontal, and mean that in the end the results don't marry up with statistics like "135% more growing area" If they did, there's be no debate.

That quote of 135% is not accurate in my opinion and was to refering to the square footage more than 135% efficient. The challenge I see with vert is that it requires more light to cover that increase in area. With that comes heat issues.

 

[papaduc]

Pretty much agree with all of that Ichabod.

What I'm saying I'm saying from a newby's perspective. I've got no problem getting the scissors out and having a good hack, but I know for a fact, based on the fact vert has punished me for my laziness before now, that a lot of growers won't be able to handle the issues it throws at them, and it is a steep and harsh learning curve.

There are fellas who even after a lot of attempts are no closer to taming it than they were at the beginning. I think the difficulty has to be factored in. It's only my own perspective but I think flipping a few 12" plants under a light is a better way for a new grower to get good solid yields out of a grow. But... I do also think that with the right strain, vertical can be relatively easy to manage as well.

I think the best way I can sum it up would be to say a strain not particularly well suited to horizontal can be more easily tamed to perform in that setup than one ill-suited to vert can be. You know what I mean?

 

[Miraculous Meds]

That quote of 135% is not accurate in my opinion and was to refering to the square footage more than 135% efficient. The challenge I see with vert is that it requires more light to cover that increase in area. With that comes heat issues.

Just by feel, and experience, and real life numbers I think once u figure it out 30% increase in yield per watt is what ive experienced. But there is no guarantees, cause u still have to learn how to dial whatever system, room, environment ur in.

 

[Miraculous Meds]

Pretty much agree with all of that Ichabod.

What I'm saying I'm saying from a newby's perspective. I've got no problem getting the scissors out and having a good hack, but I know for a fact, based on the fact vert has punished me for my laziness before now, that a lot of growers won't be able to handle the issues it throws at them, and it is a steep and harsh learning curve.

There are fellas who even after a lot of attempts are no closer to taming it than they were at the beginning. I think the difficulty has to be factored in. It's only my own perspective but I think flipping a few 12" plants under a light is a better way for a new grower to get good solid yields out of a grow. But... I do also think that with the right strain, vertical can be relatively easy to manage as well.

I think the best way I can sum it up would be to say a strain not particularly well suited to horizontal can be more easily tamed to perform in that setup than one ill-suited to vert can be. You know what I mean?

See if u do that same thing small plants vert u will have less training as well but still more surface area of canopy? Is it easier to throw them on the floor or a table yes. But if were talking yield, I don't think flat can compete. Can still do awesome. At least with where we are at with hid's and lights in general. It might change in the near future with better lights.

 

[papaduc]

We're not talking small plants though. Flipped at 12-18" you can be talking more than 2 feet tall and wide. It only takes a few of them to give you close to your gpw in yield, and with regards to yield, we're going in circles really. The numbers are all that matter and the gpw ratios of a lot of vert growers doesn't justify your claim that flat can't compete. In many cases the opposite applies.

You've got to factor in the work involved, and when I'm talking about training and low plant numbers, at the risk of repeating myself, I'm talking about topping a plant, vegging it to 18" or so, and flipping it and being able to guarantee a minimum yield of top buds from that. I honestly don't think you can do that with a vertical unless you're surrounding the plant with bulbs.

This isn't about small plants and high numbers being necessary to negate the training aspect of it all. I'm saying 12-18" plants, topped early and vegged strong, if you were to put them in either system to be left to their own devices under a single bulb, flat gives more consistent and reliable results. Imo.

We're going over the same points now. I disagree that flat grows don't compete with vert yield wise. I'm sticking fast to that opinion because there's nothing I've seen which has changed my mind. I think the other thread is the place for that specific discussion though and I think so far it's proving that both methods are, in terms of yield, quite closely matched.

Anyway... It's been real yo. Whatever way you enjoy most, do it. I look forward to seeing your grow. Take care and goodnight

 

[Ichabod Crane]

I do pretty much nothing to my plants in veg other than water them. I clip them to a stake and that is about it. Other than moving them up or down in relation to the light occasionally.

When I put them into flower I spend a good amount of time getting them where I want them to be and trimming them. Then it is pretty much a boring wait game for the most part. One or two hours every so often when they are to close to the light or filling one area in to much. It is more about knowing what to look to fix problems before they start.

If you know what to do it is not that much more work than a flat grow.

 

[Miraculous Meds]

I do pretty much nothing to my plants in veg other than water them. I clip them to a stake and that is about it. Other than moving them up or down in relation to the light occasionally.

When I put them into flower I spend a good amount of time getting them where I want them to be and trimming them. Then it is pretty much a boring wait game for the most part. One or two hours every so often when they are to close to the light or filling one area in to much. It is more about knowing what to look to fix problems before they start.

If you know what to do it is not that much more work than a flat grow.

My experience exactly.

 

[Miraculous Meds]

yes 1180 dry grams 4 plants 1.58 2000 watts 76 plants when i had balls

Here i wonder why the op went back horizontal to up his game

Hi guys, I'm switching my entire setup to horizontal SOG. I've had a hell of a lot of fun with vert but I haven't had a horizontal grow in the past 10 years LOL. I will be doing 7 trays of 25 plants per tray, all under the vertizontal hoods which are freaking awesome fwiw. I'm hoping to bring my yields up from 15-20oz per tray to 25-30oz with a 600w lamp....we shall see.

U have to ask hgo. It might be that it was easier for his situation, or maybe he ran single light stacks. Double stacking lights adds a fair amount of yield compared to single bulbs.

 

[mojave green]

well, my way of growing is better than anyone else's!
now what was my way again?

 

[Miraculous Meds]

well, my way of growing is better than anyone else's!
now what was my way again?

Looks like u use moon light. Heard it yields 3.5gpw

 

[Ichabod Crane]

Double stacking lights adds a fair amount of yield compared to single bulbs.

Exactly. Same with side by side lights in a flat grow.

 

[Ichabod Crane]

well, my way of growing is better than anyone else's!
now what was my way again?

I heard it was with bull shit, but I could be wrong.

 

[Ichabod Crane]

Damn it I am trying to watch winter soldier so I have to go.

 

[Miraculous Meds]

Damn it I am trying to watch winter soldier so I have to go.

Save u couple hrs it sucks lol

 

[mojave green]

Looks like u use moon light. Heard it yields 3.5gpw

nope it's not the moon, it's my sexy garden attire. plants love em!

a good crew helps as well!

 

[Miraculous Meds]

I heard it was with bull shit, but I could be wrong.

Cheap nutes ftw

 

[mojave green]

money talks, bullshit walks!

 

[Miraculous Meds]

U have ruined sponge bob for me. Now when I think of him grabbing at ur cock.. Not cool.

 

[Ichabod Crane]

Mojave is that trim crew any good? and are they cheap?

 

[Miraculous Meds]

They work on short notice.

U give up on that movie?