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Benefits of Vertical Growing

Hundred Gram Oz

Our Work is Never Over
Moderator
Hello all, well we done it, all your vote's showed that there is a keen interest in the subject of vertical growing, thank you all that have voted and than you Gypsy for making this happen!:woohoo::woohoo: :woohoo:

I have always seen vertical grows on the net over the years but never really give it any thought, then when I started seeing the results that some of these vertical setups were getting I was instantly hooked!! There are so many benefits to vertical growing that I sometimes wonder why everyone isn't doing it. There is a lot of equipment for horizontal growing such as, Reflectors, Light Rails, air-cooled hoods, EZ Roller's, etc most gardens are focused in a horizontal setting. If everyone grew vertically then the hydroponics stores would be out of a good chunk of business from not selling their horizontal designed equipment. I have noticed that when I talk with my hydro guys and bring up the vertical growing method they look at me like I'm nuts and try to push their other horizontally inclined ideas onto me.

There are some legendary vertical growers out there like Heath Robinson this guy reported to me that he is achieving an absolutely massive 2.5 grams per watt, now although he is using a heavy yielder (critical mass) It's still a shock to think someone can produce this in a small scale grow, (600w) that's why we needed this area to focus all our knowledge and to help everyone build their own vertical system, I'd rather do that than pay thousands for some of the commercial vertical growing system's out there.

Here are some diagrams that I think Krusty made a few years ago to explain why vertical lighting works so well as opposed to horizontal.

LiDiagramB-1.jpg











lidiagrama.jpg



As you can see their are a few benefits to vertical lighting, Number 1 The majority of the heat produced by the HID is pushed upwards to your exhaust vs the horizontal hood that traps heat and directs it at your plant's. The main advantage to this is that you can put your plants closer to your bulb's without worrying about burning them, 1 grower I know can get his plants up to 6" from his 1000w bulb but keeps them back a few more inches due to the buds getting bleached from to much light!!

Number 2 The next benefit of vertical growing is that you will be using 360o of your light, you want to absolutely cover the outer diameter of the bulb with plants so barely any light can escape, this will give you the best efficiency, you will be blasting your plants with as many lumen's as possible. Compare this method to a horizontal garden, if you look at the diagrams you can see that a massive 75% of the light is reflected thus killing a lot of lumen's in the process, lumen's that I'd prefer getting to my plants, and after all less lumen's = less yield and we don't want that now do we!

Benefit Number 3, This next benefit is for space, the amount of space you save by growing is phenomenal, a 600w lamp would be fit for a 4X4 area at very most, and even this is only a low 37.5 watts per square foot. compare this to a vertical set up, you could have a vert system 3 foot in diameter but 8 foot high and fill it with 300 plants have 5 of these in one room......ya get the idea? If not here is a pic to explain the major benefit of space improvement.

2684498593-way-comparisoon-med-med.gif


As you can see you would be improving your space by 135%! That's a huge increase.

Here is another diagram that you should have a look at.
1157989-Foot-Candle2520Chart2520HPS.jpg


Right well according to this chart the maximum distance you can get your plants to your 1000w hid is 10 inches, this will blast 64,000 at them compared to 44,000 at 12 inches, that's a BIG drop for only 2 inches. How far do you keep your plants from your bulb?

Another benefit of this system is that you can slow down the stretch on plants, this is very handy for growers wanting to grow sativa's that have a 3 x + stretch. In some of the v-scrog grows I've come across it would seem that when you stop raising the light the plant responds by cutting it's stretch and focus more of it's energy in bud production which is real handy I think you would agree:laughing::laughing:.
 
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jakeh

Member
Excellent post. Heath has designs he will give away that produce just as you stated. I am as amazed as you more people are not doing it. The advantages make it undebateable against horizontal unless you have a very short space to work with. Some major advantages are:
1. Cheapest light set up. A ballast and a hanging bulb.
2. Most efficient and environmentally friendly.
3. Easiest to ventilate without expensive equipment since the heat goes straight up.
4. Yields horizontal can't compete with.
5. Plenty of simple designs that can be built by the average person without spending a fortune.

The only knock I see is the plant numbers associated with the highest yielding sog versions but there are still versions like green bastard's that do not use high numbers or krusty's version that uses minimal numbers. Congratulations on getting this forum created.
jake
 

oregon bob

Member
Thank you HGO! Thank you GN!

I'm totally on the vertical bandwagon... have been for a few years. But, I disagree with some of the hype that is associated with the vert grow...

1. Plants grow differently - you have to grow them differently. I almost don't feel it is an apples to apples comparison when talking yields. After all, the direct light is less vs horizontal (per plant) as half the plant is not directly lit & there is no reflected light benefit. The impact of this effects your set-up, plant type, training/trimming techniques, growth characteristics & total yield, if not more. It's more like apples to oranges.

2. The "best" way to maximize yields & get absolutely great qual nugs (top to bottom), is to grow many smaller sized plants (sog premise of 6" at flower & near 18-20" at finish). This guaranties top cola quality nugs all the way around. I don't have mid-grade nugs from this set-up. However, it is very difficult to operate within the emerging conventions & laws. I'm struggling with this as we speak.

3. To totally maximize the 360d effect of maximizing total grow footprint (the real advantage, imho) requires quite a bit of effort... both on the front side & during the grow. I just don't feel this is for the light of heart as it requires an investment of build know-how & dollars. This is a labor intensive grow.

With all of this said, even if you are growing a longer strain with less than ideal yields, it is my experiences to regularly achieve .9-1.3g/watt. This isn't focusing (at all) on bumping it out. I could see getting the 2.0g mark with effort & genetics. Heath's achievements shouldn't be expected as the "norm".

Just my take as want to temper the enthusiasm. Best to all!

;-) fig this would start off some controversy as well...
 
I will be interested to follow this idea. I am 5-10 yrs away from my kids being gone and being able to build a grow area the way I want it. I've seen this idea before, but didn't really look at it as feasable for non-commercial types like me. I will be interested as well to see if somebody downsizes this idea into a smaller cabinet with a 150w or 400w.

Very enticing concept. Time to put my thinking cap on....
 

Gunnarguchi

Active member
ICMag Donor
HGO:
Very good posts with good information regarding all these charts

cant wait to go vertical myself but so far im very busy with my outdoor grow and using the "free" hps for awhile still
 
P

pine boy

This is my 1st vertical run.Its differant and I have a new plant I'm learning to grow.There about 6 cfl's in there too

400 watts and a bunch of fans.
 

Power13

Member
So first off, awesome that we have a vert section now. Didn't see the poll, but i'm glad this went through!!!

One of the biggest benefits that i have found with vertical growing, has been light stacking. Its easy to cool lights in cool tubes, stacked on top of each other. Very straight shot, and this no problem with 1 fan cooling them all. In my opinion radiant heat is also much reduced over a standard horizontal air-cooled setup. There is no surface for the light to bounce of off, and heat, except the glass of course.

Another benefit of light stacking is of course the additional light that everything gets. I don't have any light gaps in my cage type setup. I don't have the charts on it, but I've read that by stacking lights, the lumens cast by everything becomes more even, thus leading to even growth in your canopy.

I also like the fact that I am most efficiently using my light, all 360 degrees of it. But more importantly, plants love it too. I'm referring of course to the additional ones I am able to put, due to more light coverage space.
 

Sleepy

Well-known member
ok, so if one were going to try vertical...what would one need, say, if he has the light & ballast already (400 watt HPS), and his space is setup in a basement with 9 feet of height...roughly 3 feet deep by 7 feet long...

i would love to learn this method!!
 

Power13

Member
ok, so if one were going to try vertical...what would one need, say, if he has the light & ballast already (400 watt HPS), and his space is setup in a basement with 9 feet of height...roughly 3 feet deep by 7 feet long...

i would love to learn this method!!

Sleepy,

The absolute simplest method, is to hang your light in the middle of this space, with a fan under it.

Then simply arrange plants around this light, using whatever method of growing you prefer. I have seen everything from dwc, ebb&flow, drip, and dirt done this way.

Some people advise plant rotation. Others(myself included) advise simply training the plants, and trimming their backsides if needed.
 

Hundred Gram Oz

Our Work is Never Over
Moderator
Great to see this forum taking off, I'm just getting high on a nice haze hybrid and sipping on some rum n coke, captain morgan is the man!!

I'll hit up a LOAD of info 2mara about different systems, hydro, soil, V-Sog, V-SCROG.....etc but untill then I'm getting drunk! :jump::jump:

You kids have fun cuz I am

.......................VIVA LA VERTICAL.............................
 

Sleepy

Well-known member
cool...

cool...

Sleepy,

The absolute simplest method, is to hang your light in the middle of this space, with a fan under it.

Then simply arrange plants around this light, using whatever method of growing you prefer. I have seen everything from dwc, ebb&flow, drip, and dirt done this way.

Some people advise plant rotation. Others(myself included) advise simply training the plants, and trimming their backsides if needed.


...cool...i am considering trying this when i start to flower the next cycle.

i typically top mine several times...do you advise growing all strains as single-cola for this arrangement, or is topping ok?
 

Sleepy

Well-known member
another question...

another question...

i usually veg under a T5, then flower under the HPS...

do you use the one light all the way through?

or can you veg horizontally?

how long is a typical veg time for this configuration?
 

oregon bob

Member
Sleepy, suppose this would depend on assumption of more or less / smaller or bigger. I'm still a hold-back & run lots of colas, so I root, then xf to veg (t5's) for 2-3days til they get a hold to the coir, then xf to flow system. Some I can veg for 6-7 days, others could xf right away. Depending, shooting for 6-7" at xf.

Since don't rotate or nothing, use bbq stakes at bottom of pots & tie main stalk to those as encouragement to grow outward toward the light prior to it's vertical shift (which happens immediately). May move it down the stalk if nec over the next week. I trim heavily & adjust leaves to best allow light penetration & supercrop. Huge single cola with huge lower nugs.

With this, could just veg in the same flow room/light, no prob. I set mine up as a square around the 2 ctr lts w 4' faces... appx 2' to canopy in each direction. Alternate wall sets every 5 wks.

Just to reference as sure your's, everyone's, is different. Shit, HGO appears to be the man... what a WOG! Best brah.
 
T

TwinTurboGuy

Thank you HGO! Thank you GN!

I'm totally on the vertical bandwagon... have been for a few years. But, I disagree with some of the hype that is associated with the vert grow...

1. Plants grow differently - you have to grow them differently. I almost don't feel it is an apples to apples comparison when talking yields. After all, the direct light is less vs horizontal (per plant) as half the plant is not directly lit & there is no reflected light benefit. The impact of this effects your set-up, plant type, training/trimming techniques, growth characteristics & total yield, if not more. It's more like apples to oranges.

2. The "best" way to maximize yields & get absolutely great qual nugs (top to bottom), is to grow many smaller sized plants (sog premise of 6" at flower & near 18-20" at finish). This guaranties top cola quality nugs all the way around. I don't have mid-grade nugs from this set-up. However, it is very difficult to operate within the emerging conventions & laws. I'm struggling with this as we speak.

3. To totally maximize the 360d effect of maximizing total grow footprint (the real advantage, imho) requires quite a bit of effort... both on the front side & during the grow. I just don't feel this is for the light of heart as it requires an investment of build know-how & dollars. This is a labor intensive grow.

With all of this said, even if you are growing a longer strain with less than ideal yields, it is my experiences to regularly achieve .9-1.3g/watt. This isn't focusing (at all) on bumping it out. I could see getting the 2.0g mark with effort & genetics. Heath's achievements shouldn't be expected as the "norm".

Just my take as want to temper the enthusiasm. Best to all!

;-) fig this would start off some controversy as well...

You are right on the spot. However, high plant numbers aren't necessary to achieve such yields.

One example is krusty's style of grow which consists of less than 10 plants that yield 2 pounds each.

Another classic example is Northern Farmers experience with larger plants in a stadium style grow which gave him 10 lbs dry with 4 1kw MH.

I feel that the major advantage in pursuing the vertical light goals is the lighting and coverage. A reflector can only light 1 plane of plants while the vertical lighting can light more than 4 planes geometrically. And I find that mounting lights and moving them closer when necessary is a bit more labor intensive than just moving plants closer in pots.
 

oregon bob

Member
TTG, k... had a problem, or two... who is NF? Couldn't find on search. Krusty's posts seem old & couldn't find pics, so not sure on his set-up, though didn't go all the way through... seemed heavily edited...? Here's a clip from teeg420: "Yea hopefully more people will get turned on to growing vert. Guys like heath robinson, 00420, green bastard, prawn connerey, green light, sunny dog, northern farmer, and bongholio have proven that you yield more with vert. It just amazes me the yields these guys are getting." Of all the names listed, 00420 is the only member I could find through search. Other names popped up on word search, but just by reference w/in thread. This seems quite odd to me?!? Why are all the verti growers removed?!? What's up w this...?
 
P

pine boy

Vertical light movers??

I seem to recall seeing at least one setup with a light mover that they modified with a pulley and string (I'll look for the pic). I was hoping there might be some discussion about how to do this, especially since all the information will be gathered in this one place.

Basically, I want to get the most out a 400w using the least floor space. Since the 'arc tube?' is only about 4" long, the light needs to be moved up and down for it to cover more than about 2-3' of vertical space?

Also how far can I have the 'circle' of plants from the light. People talk about placing them very close (6" for a 1K??) but that seems like a waste. People should list the distances of certain things (canopy at harvest, screen?, and 'medium' whether soil or hydro) from the light. I look foward to this new section taking off,

I voted NO btw, :joint: it was 12-0...So I had to make sure everything was working right....and I knew you'd get it

Vertical light mover sound tits to me.I have been thinking about a servo and some kite line or small rope with pullys.Psudo sunrise.
I have found that 6"-8" is how far I need to stay away from my 400 .Just pass your hand thru the beam and find the hot spot then move back untill is cool.6"-8" at my house.Also I feel that a plant hight of 30" is about right for a 400,with no mover
 

oregon bob

Member
The question I have on the mover is how to handle the vent tubing...? It has to be able to retract to & fro along w the mover. How would you achieve this w/o it sagging up top or coiling on the bottom?
 

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