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Basic genetics explained

Only Ornamental

Spiritually inspired agnostic mad scientist
Veteran
It is no riskier then buying and smoking pot or growing pot.
I assume you do that.
It is really just priorities, you decide.
-SamS
I only buy seeds (which are legal here around), I nearly never smoke (and then only alone and in private), and stealth growing isn't quite the same as trying to order THC over the internet (the only place I know of where I could buy any cannabis related product without having to travel at least 1'000 km and crossing one or two borders, too).
Isolating by myself is the solution and I'll do that, someday :) .

But to turn back on topic or at least getting a bit closer:
- Did you or anybody else ever try to link terpene profiles or single constituents to the famous haze trippiness or indica coach lock?
- At least to me it seems as if breeders would often 'determine' the % indica and sativa in a hybrid either solely on the proportions of original parental stock (due subsequent selection, this is bollocks in anything but an F1) or on a few morphological traits like leaflet width, stretch, or nug density (which is so far not false). Anyway, how comes that the % indica often positively correlates to the couch lock phenomenon? Linked traits, intentional breeding, marketing, or placebo effect?
- Why do you (or others ;) ) find it is so difficult to breed for those extraordinary hazes? How comes that for example Tom Hill's original haze only shows that soaring high in a few percent of the population (no matter the breeding effort towards that particular phenotype)?
 

Sam_Skunkman

"RESIN BREEDER"
Moderator
Veteran
I only buy seeds (which are legal here around), I nearly never smoke (and then only alone and in private), and stealth growing isn't quite the same as trying to order THC over the internet (the only place I know of where I could buy any cannabis related product without having to travel at least 1'000 km and crossing one or two borders, too).
Isolating by myself is the solution and I'll do that, someday :) .

But to turn back on topic or at least getting a bit closer:
- Did you or anybody else ever try to link terpene profiles or single constituents to the famous haze trippiness or indica coach lock?

Yes.


- At least to me it seems as if breeders would often 'determine' the % indica and sativa in a hybrid either solely on the proportions of original parental stock (due subsequent selection, this is bollocks in anything but an F1) or on a few morphological traits like leaflet width, stretch, or nug density (which is so far not false).

The % WLD, Indica or NLD, Sativa is 50% in an f1 hybrid between a pure WLD and a pure NLD. Cross that 50/50 with another pure WLD and get a population that is 75% WLD & 25% NLD or if the 50/50 is crossed with a pure NLD it will make a population 75% NLD 25% WLD. It has nothing to do with phenotypical expression is is just straight math. Unless I am missing something?

Anyway, how comes that the % indica often positively correlates to the couch lock phenomenon?

Terpenes.

Linked traits, intentional breeding, marketing, or placebo effect?
- Why do you (or others ;) ) find it is so difficult to breed for those extraordinary hazes? How comes that for example Tom Hill's original haze only shows that soaring high in a few percent of the population (no matter the breeding effort towards that particular phenotype)?

Ask Tom about his work, I have not sold haze that I bred for a soaring high, at least not for 35 years, I sold materials for breeders, all I tried to do was save as many haze genes as I could, not improve them, I left that to others with different standards. Maybe I will try someday, but it is hard as Haze has been inbred to hell and is not the same as it was years ago. It has lost it's vigor and that is why so many people make haze hybrids with WLD varieties as it restores much of the vigor and can often make some great plants, but often loses much or some of what made haze special. I would not do that, I would grow many thousands of plants and try and find the couple of winners male and female, in all the rest and try breeding with just them and see if it helps, if not then the only way is with hybrids, not really the same but as close as you can get without starting all over with new columbian lines, that may or may not yield as great of plants as the Original Haze.

-SamS
 
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Only Ornamental

Spiritually inspired agnostic mad scientist
Veteran
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
Yes. And?


The % WLD, Indica or NLD, Sativa is 50% in an f1 hybrid between a pure WLD and a pure NLD. Cross that 50/50 with another pure WLD and get a population that is 75% WLD & 25% NLD or if the 50/50 is crossed with a pure NLD it will make a population 75% NLD 25% WLD. It has nothing to do with phenotypical expression is is just straight math. Unless I am missing something?
Guess you actually do =) . Statistically you're correct, but think about it. An F1 gets 10 chromosomes from each parent. Of these, only 10 are passed on. Chances are highest to get 5:5 and lowest but not impossible for 10:0. Sure, chromosomal cross over pushes the maths a bit towards the fifty-fifty, but not enough. With selection (and luck or number), a single offspring plant will be very close towards one or the other parent.

Terpenes. Why did I see that coming LoL? Any hints which ones?
[/FONT]
Remind me bout Tom when he's back from 'vacation' ;) .
 

Sam_Skunkman

"RESIN BREEDER"
Moderator
Veteran
Remind me bout Tom when he's back from 'vacation' ;) .

Yes. And?And what?? Myrcene for WLD, and several for haze types Limonene is a big one with several others. I have posted this many times but without pure THC it is useless info for you I suspect. You need to get your priorities straight. instead of collecting info you need to get direct first hand data. Find some pure THC, do it yourself, then maybe you can add to the knowledge and help by sharing the info if you want to. My 2 cents worth...
-SamS

Terpenes. Why did I see that coming LoL? Any hints which ones?

As I have said 100 times Myrcene is #1.
-SamS
 
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Only Ornamental

Spiritually inspired agnostic mad scientist
Veteran
That I don't forget to ask him. :D
I just had to write something, anything... can't post only a quote...
 

Elmer Bud

Genotype Sex Worker AKA strain whore
Veteran
G`day OO

I came across this in my travels today .

Plant DNA Collection Kit™ Hermaphrodite Cannabis Test, Male / Female Screening, Genetic Profiling Provided by Montana Biotech

Have you ever wanted to test your cannabis plant to see if it is a hermaphrodite? Well, Montana Biotech has a test for that! A cannabis plant will express hermaphroditic tendencies from environmental stresses or because of a genetic predisposition to express monoecious traits. A monoecious cannabis plant is a TRUE hermaphrodite. This cannabis plant will express male and female flower structures on the same plant. This is the hermaphrodite to be aware of! A true hermaphrodite sexes as a female early in the flowering cycle. A true hermaphrodite is a ticking time bomb! She/it will seed everything in your flowering room! Environmentally induced hermaphrodite cannabis plants can not be tested for, at this time, and do not pose the same risk to the rest of the room. These hermaphrodites are not “true” hermaphrodites and usually pollinate themselves. ANY cannabis plant can be induced to revert to a hermaphroditic state by stress. By stressing a cannabis plant, you have tapped into its inherent survival programming. Montana Biotech now offers a Polymerase Chain Reaction (PCR) based test for hermaphrodite screening of cannabis plants. KNOW if your cannabis plant has the TRUE hermaphrodite trait before you flower it! Our motto is, “Know before they show…”


Thanks for sharin

EB .
 

Only Ornamental

Spiritually inspired agnostic mad scientist
Veteran
[Sarcasm]Thanks EB for sharing this great advertisement![/Sarcasm]
Seriously, I don't trust them... True and 'false' (?) hermaphrodites, only true hermaphrodites produce females flowers before male flowers v.s. 'false' ones are harmless and show late into flowering... doesn't really inspire confidence...
If they have a PCR test, they should know the corresponding gene, and hence the protein/pathway/hormone/whatever responsible for hermaphroditism, right? Why does nobody else know what causes hermaphroditism in cannabis?
 

Elmer Bud

Genotype Sex Worker AKA strain whore
Veteran
G`day OO

I just thought I`d rattle Strawberry Tom`s cage a little . he he .

The part I don`t understand is plants from seed that herm . But clones taken from them that don`t ?
That seems to be a relationship between roots and flowers and hormones .

Thanks for sharin

EB .
 

gaiusmarius

me
Veteran
sorry for the off topic but; Sam, how does one extract pure thc from bud or hash whats the process or machine called? or are you talking synthetic thc?
 

Sam_Skunkman

"RESIN BREEDER"
Moderator
Veteran
[Sarcasm]Thanks EB for sharing this great advertisement![/Sarcasm]
Seriously, I don't trust them... True and 'false' (?) hermaphrodites, only true hermaphrodites produce females flowers before male flowers v.s. 'false' ones are harmless and show late into flowering... doesn't really inspire confidence...
If they have a PCR test, they should know the corresponding gene, and hence the protein/pathway/hormone/whatever responsible for hermaphroditism, right? Why does nobody else know what causes hermaphroditism in cannabis?

I have dreamed of a test for genes for intersex, or for the genes that cause intersex phenotypical expression with the right environmental stresses. Several tests for males, even one for females, I doubt Montana has such a test for hermaphrodites, as they also say "A monoecious cannabis plant is a TRUE hermaphrodite." I doubt that is very true as monoecious have to be maintained by man or they revert to dioecious very quickly, not very TRUE at all...
Has anyone used this test? What did it show? I ask because in my experience most Cannabis will show intersex under the right environmental stresses. Did it show everything as intersex? Why not? Most varieties are under the right conditions.
-SamS
 

Sam_Skunkman

"RESIN BREEDER"
Moderator
Veteran
G`day OO

I just thought I`d rattle Strawberry Tom`s cage a little . he he .

The part I don`t understand is plants from seed that herm . But clones taken from them that don`t ?
That seems to be a relationship between roots and flowers and hormones .

Thanks for sharin

EB .

I doubt it is true.
I bet if you tried the clones would intersex, both the seeding and the clones taken from the same seedling should be the same. If the roots and flowers have a relationship with hormones that cause intersex, why would the clone be different then the seedling they came from? If they have that problem you will have intersex, be it real intersex genes or genes that cause just phenotypic expression of intersex.
-SamS
 

KiefSweat

Member
Veteran
i've always found plants in smaller pots/root bound tend to throw a few male flowers as they mature, the same clone in a bigger pot won't.

Has male sterility been explored in cannabis yet?
 

rasputin

The Mad Monk
Veteran
G`day OO

I just thought I`d rattle Strawberry Tom`s cage a little . he he .

EB .

Elmer, no one likes an open mic act that goes over his time.

Between this & the DUD thread I'd say you missed your cue 15 minutes ago.

I don't know what happened, I used to like your posts but the recent obsession you have with TomHill and Storm Shadow is ridiculous. Any time I see you post lately its some half ass attempt at trolling one or the other.

Do you have anything constructive to add to either topic, plant genetics or DUDS, or do you just have an axe to grind with a couple dudes on the internet? Take that shit to PM by now. Spare the rest of us your bullshit trolling that just adds unnecessary posts to threads some of us are trying to follow along with.
 

Only Ornamental

Spiritually inspired agnostic mad scientist
Veteran
i've always found plants in smaller pots/root bound tend to throw a few male flowers as they mature, the same clone in a bigger pot won't.

Has male sterility been explored in cannabis yet?
I've seen that too... though my limited experience may not be worth much ;) .
The male sterility has been mentioned by Bocsa. I'm not sure but think to remember having read somewhere else that he said some other famous hemp breeder (around WWII?) had a male sterile line but didn't realise its value and trashed it... that's why Bocsa started his thing with the unisex lines. Anyway, male sterility in hemp has been observed and published several times (a small review can be found HERE) all over the globe during the last century but served only for scientific amusement but not breeding purposes. I don't know if the observed male sterile plants/lines had a cytoplasmic or nuclear sterility... the former is well known from many species and allows for easy propagation (non-Mendelian inheritance by females), the latter I don't know...
 

Elmer Bud

Genotype Sex Worker AKA strain whore
Veteran
G`day Rasputin

Well when some calls me a cock sucker I take offence . [ Tom ]
And when some one self proclaims themselves the Michael Jordan of cannabis [Storm Shadow]...
You think I should button my lip ?

Lunatics running the asylum ?

Thanks for sharin

EB .
 
Sam Skunkman can you explain any of your ideas you had with your SA durban series?
Have you taken this species to the lab? Do you know the terpene profile?

I bred a supposed c99 clone with an early durban male (your durban x your skunk 1) from seedsman stock. Just one to one combo(I'm new to the this, just 5th season OD only) The male went from spicy smell to a liquorice to a sweet smelling christmas tree. Later I let a NepJam male dust a great offspring and I let the best male, from that cross, dust some of the original F1s.

My question: Is this line I'm playing with just pissing in the gene pool?

I appreciate any response(your input is always entertaining). If not, meh. I'll keep posting until I figure it out...
 

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