Thatdude718
Member
hularious
Are you getting more than 1 gram per watt? Tell us how!
- Thread starter Dankblueberries
- Start date
hularious
So what is the optimal distance away from the lamp for a 600w lamp and 1000w lamp when hung vertically as alot of the vert systems use different diameters ie: coli 6', ecosystem 4'...... Heath used between 4 - 5' diameter expect for the racks which I think were 4 (W) x 6'(L). The most used diameter from what I can see is 4 - 5' using 600w going by the commercially available systems.
L
LJB
well you might find this interesting:
Spectral discrimination of Cannabis sativa L. leaves and canopies
Auteur(s) / Author(s)
DAUGHTRY C. S. T. (1) ; WALTHALL C. L. (1) ;
Affiliation(s) du ou des auteurs / Author(s) Affiliation(s)
(1) USDA/ARS, Remote Sensing and Modeling Laboratory, Beltsville, Maryland, ETATS-UNIS
...As N-fertilization rate decreased, the marijuana plants produced leaves with lower chlorophyll concentrations and higher reflectance values in the visible wavelength region, particularly at 550 nm.
D
DHF
Hey Shhh........I`ve had colas less than 6" away from 600 watt bare bulbs all the way till harvey without any ill effects while I was dialing veg times and research to see how much stretch occurred after the flip....... but......with proper air exchange cooling the bulbs..........
That allows growers to know how long to veg and then flip for a pre-determined distance from the bare bulbs hung down the middle of the rooms........
My fans beneath the bare bulbs created as some here have said an "air column" that pushed the heat up and outta the rooms thru the scrubber/exhaust combo`s mounted at ceiling height controlling environment.........
Now your question was what`s optimum distance from 600`s and 1000`s ?.......As close as you can inch em toward the light source during the stretch without light bleaching/heat stress and that`s a relative term cuz more plant equals more yield ....to a certain extent......
Hanging chickenwire on the celings like my old krusty days to be able to hold up any colas too heavy is just whats worked for me......I`ve seen many folks do V-scrogs to hold colas up but with the proper doseage of silicablast , serious trimming and pruning , I rarely tied any colas unless they were covering lower budsites from the sagging......
The more important question is how many plants can you stack side by side, on top of , and underneath in each designated sq ft/cu ftg for the available watts per sq ft and the amount of fresh air and relative humidity produced in the room while controlling ambient temps inside said grow area......
As long as each plant`s trimmed/pruned out underneath so as to not compete with the plants on each side , above , and underneath for the airflow/RH/environment that MUST be close to perfect for the yields , then dialage is inevitable.......
Shhh........Inside areas of my rooms were 6 x 6 with angled corners like an octagon so with the plants in angled racks not flat shelves they stretched out straight toward the lights but turned up like all plants on walls will do so once strains were dialed for stretch they always ended up right at 12" thereabouts from the bulbs for a protective buffer zone......But........the plants were always around 32-34" thereabouts total height with an extra 8-12" turned up vertically........
With angled shelves the backs of the plants didn`t require all the rape and pillaging of scraggly growth hiding from light compared to vertical grows when sitting flat.........
As I said above......It`s not so much how close they end up near the bulbs but rather having the airflow/extraction , proper transpiration and ambient temp control handling the RH as plants drink more/sweat more in late flower for proper swellage and bottom line yields IME from all those yrs........
Ya`ll take care.....DHF....
.....
That allows growers to know how long to veg and then flip for a pre-determined distance from the bare bulbs hung down the middle of the rooms........
My fans beneath the bare bulbs created as some here have said an "air column" that pushed the heat up and outta the rooms thru the scrubber/exhaust combo`s mounted at ceiling height controlling environment.........
Now your question was what`s optimum distance from 600`s and 1000`s ?.......As close as you can inch em toward the light source during the stretch without light bleaching/heat stress and that`s a relative term cuz more plant equals more yield ....to a certain extent......
Hanging chickenwire on the celings like my old krusty days to be able to hold up any colas too heavy is just whats worked for me......I`ve seen many folks do V-scrogs to hold colas up but with the proper doseage of silicablast , serious trimming and pruning , I rarely tied any colas unless they were covering lower budsites from the sagging......
The more important question is how many plants can you stack side by side, on top of , and underneath in each designated sq ft/cu ftg for the available watts per sq ft and the amount of fresh air and relative humidity produced in the room while controlling ambient temps inside said grow area......
As long as each plant`s trimmed/pruned out underneath so as to not compete with the plants on each side , above , and underneath for the airflow/RH/environment that MUST be close to perfect for the yields , then dialage is inevitable.......
Shhh........Inside areas of my rooms were 6 x 6 with angled corners like an octagon so with the plants in angled racks not flat shelves they stretched out straight toward the lights but turned up like all plants on walls will do so once strains were dialed for stretch they always ended up right at 12" thereabouts from the bulbs for a protective buffer zone......But........the plants were always around 32-34" thereabouts total height with an extra 8-12" turned up vertically........
With angled shelves the backs of the plants didn`t require all the rape and pillaging of scraggly growth hiding from light compared to vertical grows when sitting flat.........
As I said above......It`s not so much how close they end up near the bulbs but rather having the airflow/extraction , proper transpiration and ambient temp control handling the RH as plants drink more/sweat more in late flower for proper swellage and bottom line yields IME from all those yrs........
Ya`ll take care.....DHF....
.....Getting to a g/w ain't that hard. I wasn't going to post here, because the thread's about going over a g/w, but I'm answering you and not the OP. I'm pretty close right now and I still have a few kinks to work out (not stuff I don't know yet, but stuff I couldn't afford yet or haven't built yet).
Start with cannastats. I think that site is important because it deals with two areas that I think hold people back:
1 Proper canopy size and light distance
2 nutrients
1 is a good bit larger than most people think. 5'10" square for a 1k, 4'8" for a 600, 3'6" for a 400. That's bigger than most people think and this is holding back their yields. Distance is 18-22" for 1k, and I can't remember right now the distances for 600s and 400s. I think it's about 12" for 600s and 9" for 400s, assuming they're properly cooled.
2 is easier than most people think. Lucas Formula, 2 parts GH Maxi-Gro 1 part GH Max-Bloom (dry nutes) to 1000-1200 PPM (it's a range, not a specific target number, and strain makes a difference. Your girls will tell you if they're happy). I don't see a need for the agonizing over nutes I see from so many growers.
I use flood & drain because it's so easy. Maybe I would see faster growth with some other system, but I'd rather keep labor and maintenance to a minimum. In my situation faster veg growth wouldn't help much anyway, because nothing's going to shorten my flowering time and that's enough time for my girls to veg to the right size.
I also recommend paying attention to canopy depth. Too thin and you're hurting yields. Too thick, and you're sacrificing good top bud for small bottom nugs. I doubt there's much difference in final yield, but small bottom nugs are a pain to harvest and don't have as much bag appeal. I'm still working out the ideal canopy depth. Cannastats has some stuff on that too. Whatever depth you go for, trim off the little lower branches that are too low.
Specifics: I propagate cuttings in a bubble cloner (Rubbermaid with air stones glued to the bottom).
When they're well rooted I put them in small cups full of Hydroton into a flood-drain tub under a 400w light. When the roots are outgrowing the cups I transplant them into net pots (I forget the size, about 7 inches dia I think). I almost forgot, the details of my cups are specific because I lucked out and got these trays from a friend. I don't think they're commercially available at reasonable prices, because they're the cups and trays that come with baby plants like you can get at a garden center. No sense paying for those plants just to throw 'em away. So you'll have to find a way to stabilize your cups.
When they start to outgrow these pots I stick them, pot and all (NO transplant, just put the small pot into the big pot) to big ass net pots (I have some of those net pots designed to go into 5 gallon buckets, and some of the square net pots they sell at my local Home DePot, both types are about 10 inches across I think). Put a layer of Hydroton into the bigger pot, put the smaller pot in, add some Hydroton around the sides, just enough so the medium is higher than the flood table's waterline (about 2 inches).
This saves me on Hydroton because I don't have to go as deep as I would if I transplanted. Plus I don't have to do traumatize my girls, and I can remove them from the containers after harvest when they're dead. And I can do it at my leisure because I don't have to hurry.
When they're too big for the 400, they go under a 1k. 9 plants seems like a good number for that light, and that sized container and plant.
I'm going to be swapping the 400 out for a 600 soon because the 400 isn't enough for my taste. I hope I haven't left anything out. I'm trying to just report the specifics and leave out the stuff that's common to most grows.
Oh yeah, and I train the hell outta my gals. I grow bushes, so I need them nice and wide and not too tall, which doesn't come naturally. I used to tie them down but now I just bend them, tying got old quick.
I'm Sure the light distances you are giving there are the absolute closest you can get, 12" for a 600w, 18" for 1000w. 'imo' there is a min/max distance for all lamps, on the min you are playing with fire unless you have the correct aircooling. The way i took them stats were say 18" - 36"(for 1000w) as a 'Min & Max' in useable/PAR light. Should we be aiming for somewhere in the middle considering canopy penetration aswell of course! So 24"-28" would be the correct distance for a 1000w HID. This is how i read it, can someone correct me please! 24-28" would give you 8-12" of useable light penetration into your canopy!
Peace.........Scroger!!
This one: http://www.angelfire.com/cantina/fourtwenty/yor/lightres.htm
Peace.........Scroger!!
This one: http://www.angelfire.com/cantina/fourtwenty/yor/lightres.htm
YES I'm going for minimum distance and playing with fire. You are correct sir.I'm Sure the light distances you are giving there are the absolute closest you can get, 12" for a 600w, 18" for 1000w. 'imo' there is a min/max distance for all lamps, on the min you are playing with fire unless you have the correct aircooling. The way i took them stats were say 18" - 36"(for 1000w) as a 'Min & Max' in useable/PAR light. Should we be aiming for somewhere in the middle considering canopy penetration aswell of course! So 24"-28" would be the correct distance for a 1000w HID. This is how i read it, can someone correct me please! 24-28" would give you 8-12" of useable light penetration into your canopy!
Peace.........Scroger!!
This one: http://www.angelfire.com/cantina/fourtwenty/yor/lightres.htm
gonzo`
Member
How is that relevant to what he said? He's talking about not feeding his low yielders very much in veg because instead of them being content and growing at their own pace they're forced to look for food and thus grow larger.. So in other words, their restrictive diet caused them (somehow) to become larger and thus yield more...
The study you've presented is trying to help distinguish between marijuana from other plant species... I.e. to help cops find outdoor plantations from the sky...
What did you want to say?
photonstream
New member
<raises hand>
Im not reading 12 pages of this thread, so if this has been mentioned please forgive me.
If you want the largest possible yields, you are going to have to sacrifice quality.
You do this by increasing the square footage of plants per light. So instead of a 4x4 area for a 1k, you do a 6x6 or something like that. Also since you made the area bigger, you are going to need to raise lights higher to increase coverage area. And since you increased coverage area, you decreased penetration. Therefore it would be optimal to do small plants (as in "from clone"), which require minimal penetration, and large plant numbers. Small plants and high numbers, have the highest yearly turnover. Parabolics (reflectors) come to mind in this particular scenario. They are usually good for veg, but not flower. However in this case we have an exception. Parabolics are very efficient at spreading light, but lack penetration. As far as c02 goes....why not? im sure it wont hurt anything as long as its regulated.
I call this the 80's method, because its what indoor growing used to be. You find a big bedroom, put 2 1000watt parabolics in it, and stuff it brim full of plants. You end up with a hellatious trimming process because the buds usually dont really fill in as much as your used to, but you get a bigger yield. Colas are smaller, but there is many more of them. Quality is less, but quantity is more. When it comes to stuff like this, its always gonna be quality vs. quantity and penetration vs. coverage area. One goes up, the other goes down.
Also i just wanted to say this one thing.... Any person that does a lil research on how to grow, can get 1gram per watt easily. Ive seen people do it on their first grow ever, from clone, without c02! Plus, some bad growers can get lucky every now and then and pull a big crop. I think the "gram per watt generation" needs to shift its mindset into the bigger picture. Why dont people ask "how do you pull 1gram per watt consistently"? As in year round! Everything should go by the yearly now fellas. How many crops can you pull per year while maintaining the 1gram per watt level? Big yields, in most cases, are the result of "BIG PLANTS" and "VEG TIME" creating "LOW YEARLY CROP TURNOVER RATES". So the yield may be bigger, but your getting less product on the yearly.
If you want the largest possible yields, you are going to have to sacrifice quality.
You do this by increasing the square footage of plants per light. So instead of a 4x4 area for a 1k, you do a 6x6 or something like that. Also since you made the area bigger, you are going to need to raise lights higher to increase coverage area. And since you increased coverage area, you decreased penetration. Therefore it would be optimal to do small plants (as in "from clone"), which require minimal penetration, and large plant numbers. Small plants and high numbers, have the highest yearly turnover. Parabolics (reflectors) come to mind in this particular scenario. They are usually good for veg, but not flower. However in this case we have an exception. Parabolics are very efficient at spreading light, but lack penetration. As far as c02 goes....why not? im sure it wont hurt anything as long as its regulated.
I call this the 80's method, because its what indoor growing used to be. You find a big bedroom, put 2 1000watt parabolics in it, and stuff it brim full of plants. You end up with a hellatious trimming process because the buds usually dont really fill in as much as your used to, but you get a bigger yield. Colas are smaller, but there is many more of them. Quality is less, but quantity is more. When it comes to stuff like this, its always gonna be quality vs. quantity and penetration vs. coverage area. One goes up, the other goes down.
Also i just wanted to say this one thing.... Any person that does a lil research on how to grow, can get 1gram per watt easily. Ive seen people do it on their first grow ever, from clone, without c02! Plus, some bad growers can get lucky every now and then and pull a big crop. I think the "gram per watt generation" needs to shift its mindset into the bigger picture. Why dont people ask "how do you pull 1gram per watt consistently"? As in year round! Everything should go by the yearly now fellas. How many crops can you pull per year while maintaining the 1gram per watt level? Big yields, in most cases, are the result of "BIG PLANTS" and "VEG TIME" creating "LOW YEARLY CROP TURNOVER RATES". So the yield may be bigger, but your getting less product on the yearly.
L
LJB
I thought that was obvious. How carefully did you read the post? It appears that the experiment conducted in lab conditions confirms Ganja baba's findings from a large garden.
Here it is again:
Ganja baba: So we feed um very little in veg , this gets the colour light
DAUGHTRY C. S. T.; WALTHALL C. L.:
...As N-fertilization rate decreased, the marijuana plants produced leaves with lower chlorophyll concentrations and higher reflectance values in the visible wavelength region, particularly at 550 nm.
This is something a lot of people need to stop and think about. Had a discussion about this recently and some feathers were ruffled. I wasn't trying to start trouble, but just wanted to have the person look at the big picture. Step back, what are you really going for here?
I just moved one step ahead in getting my yearly output better. I now harvest once a month, each and every month. Looking good so far, pulling close to 10 # per month. This is out of one flowering room, and one smaller veg room. Much better turnover than when I used to do one large round all at once in the big room.
I won't go in to details on my grow methods here. I have enough threads where I ramble on about what I do. Done a lot of methods, but use a lot of the same techniques in everything I do.
ThisBuds4You
Member
Most of this is either consistent with my experience or research, or outside of my interests. But I have to disagree with the turnover thing. Flowering takes the same time regardless of how long you veg. If you have enough veg wattage/space, you can load all your "extra" time there and bring in just as many crops as anyone else. If your limit is space, or watts, or something, that changes the picture. But if your limits are leg ones, then I don't see why big plants means fewer crops.
But if leg limits weren't an issue, working with smaller plants would be desirable.
also guys most of my friends dont ask how many grams per watt people get
, but instead ask how much weed yield you can get from your growing area in how much time , regardless of watts , you can only get so many lights in your room ,
and when talking to commercial growers in amsterdam , they rip their electric , so watts are not important .
, but instead ask how much weed yield you can get from your growing area in how much time , regardless of watts , you can only get so many lights in your room ,
and when talking to commercial growers in amsterdam , they rip their electric , so watts are not important .
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superultramega
Member
ah what?
clearly all factors are involved. The lights represent the energy put into the system. The only way to compare the efficiency of your system is to relate the yield to energy introduced. If someone else is growing 2lbs per 1kw and you're only producing 1 lb, there are areas you can improve. Obviously if the 1lb guy is achieving his yields in 1/4 the space of the 2 lb guy this offsets the inefficiency somewhat.
take it to the next level and think about total energy introduced, which is what most people are not taking in to account. 1kw light used for 4 months uses a lot more total energy than the same light only used for 2 month. There is a point of diminishing returns when it comes to extended cycle lengths.
Who cares if you get huge gram per watt numbers if it takes you forever to do it.
it's true, for a proper measure of yield efficiency per watt, flowering time needs to be taken into consideration.
i just finished a Black Forrest sativa and got over 2g/watt - but that doesnt tell the whole story because the flowering period was over 15 weeks
and a word to the wise, stealing electricity can dramatically increase your chances of getting caught
V.
i just finished a Black Forrest sativa and got over 2g/watt - but that doesnt tell the whole story because the flowering period was over 15 weeks
and a word to the wise, stealing electricity can dramatically increase your chances of getting caught
V.
superultramega
Member
100% right. I wasn't going to list every possible variable so I just listed the one about space. Most people are using strains with a 60ish day flower. Of course you need to factor in how long the veg time is as well.
1gm/watt is a rule of thumb. Something to give growers a target. If you're pulling off 1 gm/watt in 3 months start to finish you're doing pretty good. Likewise in some situations half that is pretty good.
But it isn't a meaningless number, it is still a guide.
For me, I'm usually pretty close in a three month cycle counting finished bag product. I try to look at my total yield for a year against my expenses and space needed (as it can often be difficult to conceal) and look at the margin just like any other business. That is the important part. But as far as growing efficiency of the system on its own, gpw is a decent gauge against other methods. For some systems an unattainable goal, for others it is one easily passed.
Humboldt707420
New member
I am averaging .64 of a ounce per plant for 3000 watts That number is usally laughable, My grandma who is a raging alcoholic can get that in her closet with a fancy florecent. But when you add a coliseum in the mix then that turns into a 12 pound hall. So i generally get 1.7 to 1.8 grams per watt.
