Anyone else seen this yet (Oil in canned butane)

[tehmaster]

Funny it is hash that is best for me, but I am smoking very clean hash. As for no coughing with BHO, you must be smoking different BHO, it makes most people cough like shit if they take a big hit like the pipes you heat first make you do. I guess you could take a tiny hit but seems few do...
I see people rolling on the floor, coughing in spasms with BHO.
-Sams

Using a domeless nail and a stem that is not angles (straight up and down) , (actually stemless, the place where you put the domeless nail is straight up and down) the torch can get the glass hotter than expected ,causing a harsher hit.
That's what always seems to happen to people i know , that and people holding it a long time and coughing in my circle.

 

[vapor]

I consider an Absolute a non polar extraction like butane or hexane, which is subsequently redissolved in a polar solvent like ethanol and sub zeroed prior to filtering out the plant waxes.

My QWET is not an Absolute, but QWET doesn't extract all that many non-polar plant waxes in the first place.

QWET makes a damn fine extraction, but isn't nearly as fast or cheap as a butane extraction with a recycler.

Butane also produces a damn fine extraction, so the difference in speed and cost win the day unless I specifically want a QWET.

These days I stay really busy, so the only QWET I make is in class, to teach others how. If I couldn't get butane, it would be my next choice.

Always learning thanks eh!

 

[prune]

Ya that's not much compared to daily dabbers, hell some people go threw an 8th of oil a day. It's not only the lubricants in butane thats bad for you, but all the plant waxes, lipids and fats concentrated in raw bho that coat our lungs with every dab. When these plant waxes are dissolved by a solvent and then purged of that solvent they are no longer in there natural state anymore like in water hash/drysift/flowers and causing them vaporize much easier. These lung irratants can't be procesed by the lungs and either build up or are expectorated out. In my opinion the worst is the shortness of breath caused by it, leading you to never feel like you get whole breath in. Not a very fun feeling, almost like your drowning


I wouldn't be suprised that many dabbers of bho that hasen't been dewaxed or made with clean butane develop serious lung problems after years and years of dabbing everyday.

there is so much misinformation out there about the process of vaping BHO and you seem to have summarized much of it here.

The major irritant in vaping oil is the THC itself, with two separate modes of action - temperature and PH.

Each individual vapor particle is superheated and relatively well insulated floating in air. Those initial high temps of several hundreds of degrees will persist until the oil particle touches something dense enough to sap that energy, and moist throat and lung tissue is all there is available to cool the oil.

If frying your breathing apparatus sounds bad, consider the second order of effects - the dissolving THC molecules are also quite acidic and continue to burn and irritate the tissue well beyond the initial temperature attack.

It can sound bad and harmful and some people will really never get the hang of the method, but the same process is part and parcel of any inhalation protocol and the Total Combined Imbibed materials are going to be lowest with highly concentrated medicines.

 

[vapor]

Interesting i never thought of the ph of cannabis oil. I do know and understand how to ph other plant extracts so they are more compatible with humans...hmmm...

 

[midwestHIGHS]

there is so much misinformation out there about the process of vaping BHO and you seem to have summarized much of it here.

The major irritant in vaping oil is the THC itself, with two separate modes of action - temperature and PH.

Each individual vapor particle is superheated and relatively well insulated floating in air. Those initial high temps of several hundreds of degrees will persist until the oil particle touches something dense enough to sap that energy, and moist throat and lung tissue is all there is available to cool the oil.

If frying your breathing apparatus sounds bad, consider the second order of effects - the dissolving THC molecules are also quite acidic and continue to burn and irritate the tissue well beyond the initial temperature attack.

It can sound bad and harmful and some people will really never get the hang of the method, but the same process is part and parcel of any inhalation protocol and the Total Combined Imbibed materials are going to be lowest with highly concentrated medicines.

Have you ever winterized your raw bho? Try dabbing the removed plant waxes, lipids and fats and tell me thats something you want in your lungs. Greywolf, jump117 and many other senior members will atest to these findings, inhaling plant waxes is bad our lungs because they can not be processed like cannabinoids and there is no benifit from having them in your oil. Parrafin waxes, mineral oil would have a similiar effect on the lungs.
Plant waxes also have a hydrophobic end that repells water, if you notice the way water beads of trichome heads and leaf surfaces it is because of the waxy cuticle on the leaf and trichome.

I agree that dabbing at scorching temperatures temperatures like most do 600F+ is very hot on the lungs, I try and dab at the lowest possible temperatures which is around 375-425F sometimes threw water and sometimes without and it's not bothersome on the lungs, temperature wise that is. What is bothersome is the shortness of breath I feel after dabbing raw bho, un winterized trim oil is the worst as it usually will produce more plant waxes then flowers.

If your dabbing oil with cannabinoids wholy in there carboxylic acid form(thca,cbda, etc.) it's very acidic, but when placed apon the heated element (ti, quartz) it is quickly decarboxylated and the majority of cannabinoids will no longer be in there inactive carboxylic acid form. Tested reclaim is usually fully actived cannabinoids or close to it.

Also cocentrated growth horomones, pesticides, herbicides, fungicides and residual nutrients are of obvious concern as well.

I'am very active person and when dabbing raw un winterized bho I become winded very, very quickly compared to vaporize absolutes, fullmelt and flowers, hell even smoking doesn't make me as short of breath, although I do hack up brown flem when smoking. I remain short of breath untill days after abstaining from raw bho.

Everyones different, but I notice many other dabbers have these same breathing problems when indulging in bho that has not been winterized.

 

[Whitegirlweed]

Reddit Bhotards

Reddit Bhotards

People on Reddit are seriously misinformed, here is my favorite and my reply ( I directed him to skunkpharm in an earlier post)

"[–]Hereforthefreecake 0 points 1 day ago*
Similar to the effects I feel from doing whip-its. Nitrous from a canister (non-medical grade) also has machine oil it in. As it is meant to pass through whip cream makers and paintball/airsoft guns. This is a major reason why when doing whip-its you shouldnt do them straight from the cracker. You should spray them into a balloon so the machine oil has a chance to stick to the inside of the balloon instead of being directly ingested. Its hard to describe the pain. Its like a cramp in my lung almost. Or like breathing with someones fingers pushed hard into my ribs.
Im also in the industry (glassblower/medical card holder) and smoke fairly excessively(1-2g a day). When I switch to flower for brief periods of time, the pain subsides over the cource of a few days. But comes back fairly quickly once I start back up again. Before hearing about the machine oil in butane I thought I had an upper respiratory infection or something. After seeing lew swans posts, and seeing a doctor, Im convinced machine oil is the culprit. If you want to find out for yourself, spray 2-3 cans of butane with nothing else onto a pyrex then let it evaporate. You will see "ghost oil" in your dish. Thats the coined term buzzing around the facebook oil groups right now. Its quickly becoming common knowledge.
its a fairly high percentage. 4 cans yields almost .2g.Thats a very fat dab to be mixed with your oil. The effects of vaporizing and inhaling machine oil is going to have zero proof that its harmful in this context. But when you look at the rate of collapsed lungs, chemical burns in people throats ect, it definitely deserves a closer examination. I personally know 3 people in my social circle that have had a collapsed lung from smoking. All of which make oil here in denver professionally for dispensories. Also Dj Sub-cools wife Cindy posted back in August of 2012 that after smoking with a trusted BHO maker she was hospitalized and almost recieved a tracheotomy for chemical burns in her throat. We can associate this with over dabbing or bad oil, but the reality is there is just as high of a likelyhood that it was caused by the machine oil found in butane. They dont have to put it in a MDS because its not part of the butane itself. Its a bi-product of the packaging process. I understand the downvotes and the pessimism, I myself still dab occasionally knowing this information. But to ignore/dismiss it for the sake of wanting to continue to get high is almost... pathetic? I know I personally am not trying to get lung cancer or brain lesion down the road because I needed to get higher than flower was getting me. When the closed loop water trap system comes out, it will be a game changer. No more rock hard shatter with a sizzle."

My reply:"[–]ClassyBlazer 1 point 80 milliseconds ago
Wait, ^ so you do whippets and are worried about trace amounts of an unknown substance in a solvent that doesn't go straight to your dome? Researchers sawed threw 72 cans of butane, .158 grams were recovered so 12 ppm. Do you use any of these products? http://www.goodguide.com/ingredients/160110-butane They contain solvent too.. Oh and to honor the spirit of information this dabs for you. Darwinism I swear http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/nitrous/nitrous_article2.shtml"
Test results or not the air in large cities in some areas seems like it would be worse for you than some properly vac-purged bho.

 

[Gray Wolf]

OK, I picked up the test results and am still going through it a line at a time, pulling up the MSDS sheets, starting with the items of concern.

The first thing to keep in perspective, is that the total oil was 12 ppm from 21.3 liters, so the PPM in the study should be divided by 1,000,000 and multiplied by .000,012, to get the concentration.

That concentration number X 1,000,000 will give you parts per millionth.

In summary, there were simple Alkanes present as long as C-16, which are not of health concern at the levels present.

In addition there are aromatic Alkenes present, that are of serious concern, but not at levels remotely close to exposure limits.

The concern with those Alkenes is really not reaching toxic limits, but the fact that some are known carcinogens, mutagens, teratogens, etc.

IE: Cyclohexane, isocyanato, which most likely came from the gaskets and seals used in the cans and process, because it isn't found naturally in butane.

Nasty bad shit, with an no exposure limits established and an intravenous LD-50 mouse of 13 ppm and present at the level of .000000001728 concentration, or .001728 parts per millionth. That is about 7500 times lower than the LD-50.

Another bad nasty present was Benzenamine, 3,5, at the levels of .035778 parts per billionth, with a Permissible Exposure Limit of 2 ppm TWA for 8 hours. That is only 56,000 times lower than PEL.

Benzene 1,1 showed up at a concentration of .000000003678, or .000003678 PPM, with a Permissible Exposure Limit of 110 ppm TWA 8 hours.

I could go on, but it will take me awhile to pull MSDS sheets for the whole list, so I've attached the raw data. Sorry the quality isn't better, but the original is barely readable and this was copied at 1200 bit resolution

Even if nothing is present at levels of serious health concern, I would prefer to not have any carcinogens in there at any levels, so in addition to fractional distillation using vacuum, we will be experimenting with Bentonite filters.

 

[RegisPhilburn1]

Wow thank you so much for doing these tests, it is great to know some of what we are dealing with.

As far as tweeking the fractional distillation in the MKIII, do you think it would be best to recover your initial butane at lower temps to avoid some of the lower boiling point contaminants from getting in? Wiki puts the BP of benzene at 80C (176F) and i havnt checked through the whole list, but i bet tere are a few that are low enough. My concern is that i have been using near boiling water (100C 212F) to speed recovery when tapping in new cans, so i might have pumped some of the trace benzene into my tank. Time for a fresh tank i guess, excited to here about this bentonite.

 

[Gray Wolf]

Yeah, I agree it is better to trade effectiveness for speed in this case. I suggest keeping the water bath around 85F. Under vacuum the temperature of the pool of butane plunges, regardless of what the water bath is, but as it finishes off, the temperature rises to the bath temperature.

 

[mda232]

Winterization does not remove this, correct GW? If that's the case, unfortunately no more dabbing until I can find a reliable source that uses a closed-loop recovery :\.

 

[Gray Wolf]

Winterization does not remove this, correct GW? If that's the case, unfortunately no more dabbing until I can find a reliable source that uses a closed-loop recovery :\.

Winterization will remove some of the heavier elements, but not the lighter aromatics.

Fractional distillation under vacuum clearly removes what we tested, but we will experiment with further filtration using a packed Bentonite column.

One of the experiments will be to Bentonite filter the butane before vacuum distillation, to see what remains after vacuum distillation. That will tell us whether filtration is a suitable alternative to vacuum distillation.

 

[mda232]

the lighter aromatics are the nasties, though, correct?

 

[Hashmasta-Kut]

so for example, benzamine 3,5 at .035778 ppm, that would be the concentration in a sample of liquid butane, correct? so if one uses this butane to extract with the subsequent ppm left in the final extract sample is much lower, is that right too? im just trying to figure out the math on that. if for example one can of butane is used and you yield 5 grams of oil, what would the ppm be of benzamine 3,5 if one assumes none of it is filtered out in the extraction process?

another thing i have been doing is using much smaller amounts of butane. if you dont mind wasting 10% of your yield, you can get 90% using much less butane. For about 30 grams of material it would take about 1/3 of a can to soak it, then if you let about 10 tbsps out the bottom, you will have around 90% of the yield. i think the total amount of butane used then is substantially less, compared to letting a full can into your extraction dish, that would be at least ten times as much butane used.

 

[Gray Wolf]

the lighter aromatics are the nasties, though, correct?

Some of them are.

The long chain alkanes have fully saturated orbits, and aren't giving up or seeking ions, so they are pretty inert, other than adding taste.

 

[Gray Wolf]

so for example, benzamine 3,5 at .035778 ppm, that would be the concentration in a sample of liquid butane, correct? so if one uses this butane to extract with the subsequent ppm left in the final extract sample is much lower, is that right too? im just trying to figure out the math on that. if for example one can of butane is used and you yield 5 grams of oil, what would the ppm be of benzamine 3,5 if one assumes none of it is filtered out in the extraction process?

another thing i have been doing is using much smaller amounts of butane. if you dont mind wasting 10% of your yield, you can get 90% using much less butane. For about 30 grams of material it would take about 1/3 of a can to soak it, then if you let about 10 tbsps out the bottom, you will have around 90% of the yield. i think the total amount of butane used then is substantially less, compared to letting a full can into your extraction dish, that would be at least ten times as much butane used.

.158 grams of mystery oil divided by 71 cans equals .002225 grams per 300 ml can. 2981.5 PPM of that is Benzamide, so .00225 grams divided by 1,000,000 times 2981.5 equals .0000066 grams per can.

A one inch x 12 inch tube holds about 40 grams of prime bud and uses about one can, so if we assume a 20% yield, and everything ends up in the oil, we have 8 grams of oil with .0000066 grams of Benzamide in it, or .000000825 grams per gram of concentrate.

That equates to about .8 ppm

 

[vapor]

i bet santa's elves are getting ready for every bodies closed loop system's. me personally, not going to blast another can of butane till i have the marklllterp
peace much thanks

 

[Hashmasta-Kut]

.158 grams of mystery oil divided by 71 cans equals .002225 grams per 300 ml can. 2981.5 PPM of that is Benzamide, so .00225 grams divided by 1,000,000 times 2981.5 equals .0000066 grams per can.

A one inch x 12 inch tube holds about 40 grams of prime bud and uses about one can, so if we assume a 20% yield, and everything ends up in the oil, we have 8 grams of oil with .0000066 grams of Benzamide in it, or .000000825 grams per gram of concentrate.

That equates to about .8 ppm

thanks a lot

 

[SkyHighLer]

.158 grams of mystery oil divided by 71 cans equals .002225 grams per 300 ml can. 2981.5 PPM of that is Benzamide, so .00225 grams divided by 1,000,000 times 2981.5 equals .0000066 grams per can.

A one inch x 12 inch tube holds about 40 grams of prime bud and uses about one can, so if we assume a 20% yield, and everything ends up in the oil, we have 8 grams of oil with .0000066 grams of Benzamide in it, or .000000825 grams per gram of concentrate.

That equates to about .8 ppm

I divide the ppm results from the analysis by 319.5 grams (71 cans times 4.5g equals 319.5 grams) to get diluted ppm figures. For instance, cyclohexene shown with 1198.4 ppm would be at 3.75 ppm in my BHO. Your residual would be at approximately half that (2.1 ppm) since you get more (8 grams instead of 4.5 grams) BHO per can.

The ppms of the sample sent for analysis is a proportion, the only adjustment necessary is for dilution.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parts_per_million

 

[m314]

It would be interesting to see this kind of testing done on BHO.

 

[Hashmasta-Kut]

I divide the ppm results from the analysis by 319.5 grams (71 cans times 4.5g equals 319.5 grams) to get diluted ppm figures. For instance, cyclohexene shown with 1198.4 ppm would be at 3.75 ppm in my BHO. Your residual would be at approximately half that (2.1 ppm) since you get more (8 grams instead of 4.5 grams) BHO per can.

i guess you are saying graywolf is doing the math wrong? for his example he used 2981.5 PPM Benzamide, and got .8 ppm as an answer for the final sample ppm so for your example at 1198.4 ppm it would work out to 0.322 ppms in his example, not the 2.1 ppm you calculate..