Any advantage in 10'' over 6'' bucket lid/net pots?

[cyat]

-Again, not spun or corded as you describe on page 19. Single roots, big difference.

If you like it I love it but.....
Your picture is the definition of cord roots
names are names english is a funny language call them space roots if you want, but by my understanding those are cord roots and only support the roots which really feed.

Big buckets for support allow the roots to spread and feed all my roots are fishbone stlye and very thin but strong more roots for drinking instead of holding on for dear life in a little cup but if your growing small plants it might be fine

 

[DHF]

If those roots bustin out sideways from a 6" netpot in a 5 gal bucket per se are kept with solution level at the bottom or lil above the netpot , then it only stands to reason that the roots coming out the sides are " above the juice line" in an air gap between the sides of the containers , but..........

How much detriment do cord roots contribute to overall yield ?.....Enough where this was discussed many times back in the day at the dead sites....

Peace....DHF..........

Edit.........Respect Cyat.....

 

[Shafto]

If you drill a bunch of small holes in the bottom so only small roots can get through then that's what will happen.

I don't mean to sound like a know it all, and I wish I could remove one of these monsters to show the bottom of the net pot, where there are more roots, bellow the water line, just as large.

This is SS bubblegum, sativa pheno. The indica pheno next to it, has the same size root ball, same water level, same conditions all around, connected to the same recirced res, but it has many more smaller roots coming from the sides and bottom.

I've seen corded, wrapped up roots before. Doesn't look the same as a single, round rat tail root that is all fishboned with roots that have another set of fishbones and even another set on those as they get smaller.

Just sayin', they're not all the same up top, they aren't all the same down bellow either.

 

[Hydrosun]

To me that looked like your tap root and because it was still seeking out water it had to split three ways to make it out of the net pot. In my opinion the net pot is too small and the plant would have benefited from the tap root being able to grow bigger and fatter before it ran into the sides or bottom of a net pot.

Now I was having this discussion with another grower the other day and he said that in his opinion the larger net pots help the plant fight pests and disease; because in larger net pots there is more roots AWAY from the main stem and the knats, root larva, and other disease works on the outside for a lot longer before it contaminates the plants stem and reaches into the branches.

This disease benefit corresponds to my own observations as well. Perhaps if everything is PERFECT the 2" net pot can have plants equal to a 10" net pot; however it is my observation that things are rarely perfect in my garden. If the 10"s can add stability and better resistance that is enough for me.

If however a GREATER yield was PROVEN with SMALLER net pots I'd be open to change.

 

[DHF]

That`s why I said it looked like a taproot from a seedplant Hydrosun , but had more with it and beside it causing my experienced opinion that coming out the sides where there`s a serious "airgap" above the flood line between a 6" netpot and the sides of a 5 gal bucket , that the plant formed "cordroots" stealing plant energy for the survival syndrome that`s been documented for many yrs with juice levels falling and not being topped off to keep the levels constant in RDWC.....but...

Taproots and laterals don`t "split off" searchin for moisture in a DWC environment pumpin juice 24/7 since it`s there for the taking............

Seen 1000`s of 5 gal bottom buckets full of roots , as well as murderin 1000`s of plants in the quest for dialage...........

No ego over here Shafto......only tryin ta help folks muddle through most of the bullshit hearsay so-called knowledge here and other weedsites since most of the pertinent knowledge has been lost by the old site`s dying.......

Not saying your post was anything as such , just was questioning and clarifying for the folks here tryin ta learn the right way the first time......

I still say for plant/root anchoring and upper support , that the bigger the upper container , the more beneficial rootmass will be formed for more foliage/budmass above come choptime IME......

Just what I`ve learned over the yrs........DHF......

 

[Hydrosun]

Don't think I'm at 1000's yet but I am well past 100's and I agree with you.

 

[DHF]

Had 36 plants in 5 gal buckets in 2 flip rooms side by side at 5 diff locations for over 5 yrs , not counting the 4 plant Krusty buckets at same locations for 8 yrs.........

Then Coco DTW with # 5 smartpots and 64 plants to the same flip rooms minus 1 location for only 512 plants running at any given time staggered 4-5 weeks apart perpetually for another 3 yrs before shutdown , but up the walls on angled racks , gives me killin and gettin done with buncha plants over the yrs Bro.........unfortunately for the dead ones , but all in the quest for knowledge.....

Just tryinta keep it real while being diplomatic and tryin ta share.......

God I`m old.........DHF..........

 

[Hydrosun]

Yeah not that many for me, but what you see is what you see over the YEARS. Perpetual growers are the answer to the "How to OverGrow the planet." Thank you!

 

[Shafto]

Not questioning how many plants you've grown before, or trying to start any kind of argument. Just curious why I see roots just as large coming from the bottom of the pot where they are fully submerged? This is from a clone, not a seed, so there is no tap root.

I wish you could see what I've seen. I'll take some pics when it's harvest time. My AK47 girl has all white fuzz, no thick roots at all. The 2 different bubblegum phenos both have thicker, and the one pictured, the sativa, being the thickest. All other conditions are the same. I have not grown 1000 plants, but I feel pretty safe in saying that it must also been genetically driven as well as enviromentally. I don't think that's very far fetched.

 

[DHF]

Heath Robinson and lil "Happy Hemp Hog" turned me onto perpetual harvey`s well over a decade ago........

Shafto....There`s no "genetics" involved in how roots develop in an "artificial submerged water environment" controlled by variables such as nutrient solution levels not staying constant falling and rising as the plants eat and solution levels drop "causing" the air gaps without "auto" top off`s and perfect nutrient addbacks while keeping ph well within parameters for proper juice assimilation and plant growth....

That`s the only way cord roots form ........from being exposed to air too long , and going into survival mode twisting every available root for maximum moisture absorption and plant preservation forming what looks exactly like a taproot on smaller plants..................

Mother Nature shit ya know ?.......and it doesn`t happen overnight............for em ta look like 1 huge ass solid root takes time.......so.......

Now........You`ve yet to tell us about those root pics coming out the sides of your netpots where there is indeed an airgap above the feed/flood line as I noted right ?........

Would like ta clear this up for folks in the future ............Growing Sativa`s or Indica`s indoors DWC require`s artificial environment dialed damn near perfect for decent results.........without the "Ebb and Flow" syndrome from plants eatin juice before it`s replaced , thus causing the "air gap" cord roots come from...............

Peace.......DHF..........

 

[Shafto]

Again DHF, not to be a dick, but you're just assuming every system out there is like the ones you've encountered or something?

My levels stay absolutely constant, these are not standalone DWC buckets, they are all connected. They overflow out at the same set level and stay there from beginning of grow to end of grow. Saying that genetics only influences the part of the plant above ground is also foolish.

No twisting.. just thick roots. How many times do I have to repeat this? It's a thick root, with other roots fishboning off of it. It doesn't "LOOK" like one thick root. It is one thick root. These large roots are where all the small roots grow from. With a larger net pot you may conceal this, or it may not be as active, depending on the strain/pheno in indentical condictions as I have personally whitnessed. I've been watching the progress of my plants quite closely. I'm not trying to spin some web of lies here. Just because you've never seen this in person doesn't mean it doesn't happen.. even if you have grown over 1000 plants.

I was driving down the highway a couple years ago way up north, and in the middle of the day I saw a meteor rip across so the sky with a huge fiery trail, it then exploded so loud I could hear it, and little fiery bits rained down everywhere.

I bet you've driven 1000000 miles too, but I doubt you've seen that before. Some people don't believe me about that one either. To each their own though.

 

[uptosumpn]

WOW!...I will just do a side by side.....

 

[stoney917]

i got a 1986 honda crx with 875,662miles lol still runnin to. i get behind the wheel every now and then for ol time sake. it will hit the million mark hopefulley. shit i will rebuild the whole damn thing if i get it within 500 miles of the mill mark. i bought it in 97 for 500bucks and shit still goin all the miles arent mine though. \perepetual it def the way to go.

 

[DHF]

Ok Shafto........Once again for the last time........what happened to your roots is what happens to lateral roots in a DWC setup with smaller netpots and airgaps on the sides of the bottom container "above" the flood line.........

Fact........not fiction.....and they DID turn into cordroots , guaranteed....They DID NOT start out that way....It`s plant science......

Go google/look it up instead of tryin to persuade yourself you`re doin nuthin wrong and tellin folks it`s the way , the truth , and the light........

No more from me ,cuz it sounds like you`re tryin to be a dick with smartass remarks , and I`m only here ta help and not argue......

If you`re gonna teach....Know the diff tween what`s proper and what`s not........Heath`s not around but I assure you he`d jump all over this with the technical explanation that I`m not privy to or care about..........

Ya`ll take care and get some bigger upper containers IME......and I`ve run 10`s of thousands of plants inside since late `94 Shafto , and pretty much seen it all........

Peace.....DHF................

 

[mule420]

From wiki...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Root

• Coarse roots: Roots that have undergone secondary thickening and have a woody structure. These roots have some ability to absorb water and nutrients, but their main function is transport and to provide a structure to connect the smaller diameter, fine roots to the rest of the plant.
• Fine roots: Primary roots usually <2 mm diameter that have the function of water and nutrient uptake. They are often heavily branched and support mycorrhizas. These roots may be short lived, but are replaced by the plant in an ongoing process of root 'turnover'.

The pattern of development of a root system is termed root architecture, and is important in providing a plant with a secure supply of nutrients and water as well as anchorage and support. The architecture of a root system can be considered in a similar way to above-ground architecture of a plant—i.e. in terms of the size, branching and distribution of the component parts. In roots, the architecture of fine roots and coarse roots can both be described by variation in topology and distribution of biomass within and between roots. Having a balanced architecture allows fine roots to exploit soil efficiently around a plant, but the plastic nature of root growth allows the plant to then concentrate its resources where nutrients and water are more easily available. A balanced coarse root architecture, with roots distributed relatively evenly around the stem base, is necessary to provide support to larger plants and trees.

 

[DHF]

Taproots are "coarse roots"........Cord roots are above the bottom containers in the void between the small netpots and the outer container"above" the flood line constantly drying out in air with "Deep Water Culture" setups.......

They steal plant energy and take away from overall plant health in the effort to twist and form themselves for plant preservation while affecting yield......Bottom line........

This was all told yrs and yrs ago.......Sorry.......won`t post again.......nuff said..........

No disrespect.....DHF.........

 

[uptosumpn]

So DHF, when I set up my 5gal bucket, what your saying is use a 10" netpot instead of the 6" and "dont" or "do" leave an air gap? And by doin this I will yeild heavier plants as well as have an overall better root system in general??????

BTW, what would you reccommend per bucket the amount of air being fed to each oxy-stone/air stone....I was thinkin 15-20L per min. for lotsa bubbles!!!!

 

[Hydrosun]

10 don't

As much as possible with out over heating the h2o

 

[Mr.Howie]

What's with not having an airgap? I always thought you were suppose to have an inch or two between the water line and the bottom of the net cup (no matter the size).

 

[PoopyTeaBags]

There is also a lame 8" in-between but there is no comparison.

damnit i use the 8 is there really a difference on the tens??