Antifa, real or not?

[CosmicGiggle]

..... it's kinda like 'The Drug House Down the Street', you know it exists 'cause you see the traffic, hear the gunshots in the middle of the night, see the 'escorts' out in the middle of the street with their cell phones AND walkie talkies, mopeds, but it 'doesn't exist' 'cause they don't keep the drugs in the house.

Plausible Deniability I think it's called, they're hiding behind it.

... as for 'proof', the Charlottesville Unite the Right Rally in 2017 is where they made their 1st national appearance, fighting against the white supremacists trying to save a statue of some guy on a horse.

 

[xavier7995]

I kinda wish they would have more marches with tiki torches wielded by kids in khakis and polos.

Still sticking with my assertion that its just the current name given to describe a group, but not really a cohesive group you can actually join. I am struggling to come up with a good analogy.

Man...deadheads might be a good one. You dont join some official group called "deadheads." Its just the term that covers a broad group of people with some characteristic in common. There isnt really a hierarchy, no dues, no rules, etc. You just show up and say your a deadhead and boom, so it is. Now go thumbprint this crystal.

 

[mean mr.mustard]

I love you

 

[CosmicGiggle]

.....

Still sticking with my assertion that its just the current name given to describe a group, but not really a cohesive group you can actually join. I am struggling to come up with a good analogy.

Hippies from the late 60's - 1970's, there were hundreds of thousands of 'us' but I don't ever remember joining up or having an ID card!

 

[Gypsy Nirvana]

Punks - Mods - Rockers - Teddyboys - Suedeheads - Beatniks - Rudeboys - etc etc

 

[xavier7995]

Yeah that works, i was trying to think of a good subset of a larger group. Like you have the hippies that could be equated to the broad group of democrats, but antifa would be like the SDS or weather underground faction with the group (if sds and the WU were fully decentralized and all members were fully autonomous). I am not sure if that quite works...maybe the "radicals" of the era since that was just sort of a blanket term rather being an actual group.

 

[nepalnt21]

radicals it is.

seems it's "leftists that do bad style protests"

like the early 2000s' "anarchists"?

 

[CosmicGiggle]

... antifa would be like the SDS or weather underground faction with the group...

perfect analogy, all violent but totally supported by the 'peace loving' Hippies at the time, kinda like the non-violent protestors leading the vanguard knowing 'the muscle' will be following right behind 'em - more PLAUSIBLE DENIABILITY, "it's not me", uh huh, uh huh.

 

[xavier7995]

I can't really contest that take on it and generally speaking I do believe that you need some muscle and violence in certain circumstances. I always say mlk Jr would not be remembered as fondly or held up as the ideal agent of change if it weren't for the militant black rights movement that followed.

That black dude taking a knee seems quite a bit more reasonable given the current reaction to the situation. People acted like it was the end of the world...and nothing changed. Then shit burned and police reform at least gets paid lip service now.

 

[Treevly]

Seems to me that antifa exists.
However, it also seems to me that people who are deeply threatened by antifa are trying their best to rebrand and/or recharacterize antifa into something they are not.

The media wants them rebranded as Boy Scout Philosophers.

 

[CosmicGiggle]

.....and the Dems wanna insist that they don't exist, it's all an illusion, a made up invention by the other side to hurt their cause, the showcasing of the BLM/Black Power political movement and the myth of the peaceful protestors just exercising their Constitution right to free speech! uh huh, uh huh.

 

[nepalnt21]

i've personally known they exist for years, i just don't buy into the mainstream narrative that antifa is substantially responsible for what's going on in these cities

 

[CosmicGiggle]

What about alla the revolutionary protestors in Portland with their shields with the Black Power and Antifa symbols, what's that all about???

The siege/takeover has lasted over 89 days.

 

[Treevly]

The comical thing is that "antifa" is more like the "fa" who strong-armed Germany in the 1920s and 1930s than any other players in U.S. history. No, they are not "the same" as the brownshirts, any more than Trump is Hitler [despite the delusions of the Woke;] but antifa's actions belie their vainglorious name.

 

[nepalnt21]

what are antifa's "actions" you speak of, treevly?

 

[nepalnt21]

Antifa symbols,

i've seen a few, not in significant numbers

 

[Amynamous]

The media wants them rebranded as Boy Scout Philosophers.

That’s disingenuous bullshit and you know it.
They’re not boys scouts and no one has made them out to be. However, they are willing to put themselves on the front line of hatred and stand up to the cowardly punk-ass cowardly nazibois, klanbois, proudbois, boogaloo bois, and other fascist bitches of the alt-right.

 

[Amynamous]

The comical thing is that "antifa" is more like the "fa" who strong-armed Germany in the 1920s and 1930s than any other players in U.S. history. No, they are not "the same" as the brownshirts, any more than Trump is Hitler [despite the delusions of the Woke;] but antifa's actions belie their vainglorious name.

As i recall, the brownshirts were Hitler’s personal “army” that would go out and raise havoc at Hitler’s request. The brownshirts are more like trump’s boogaloo bois.

 

[White Beard]

Its just the current name used to describe a group. It isnt a real thing in the sense that it isnt an actual organization. The black bloc was similar in the 90s, same basic principles and ideas.

A different perspective: the “black bloc” were always troublemakers, prone to destruction, and unwelcome by the run of protesters at any event they manifested themselves in. It was always unclear to me whether they were genuinely politically committed to anything beyond making trouble...but they were and still are quite distinct from those protesters who were and are willing to oppose violent attacks on the peaceful.

It’s more complicated these days, because it was found simple and easy to conflate black-bloc actions with purely defensive actions in certain corners of the ‘media’; to the point that it no longer really matters if troublemakers are even remotely associated with any ‘antifa’ activities: reporting on events since the murder of Floyd have made no effort to distinguish between anti-protest “accelerationists” and legitimate protesters, with even the three-percenter who lit the City Hall fire in Nashville being breezily dubbed ‘antifa’ for no discernible reason...other than it fit someone’s narrative to do so.

The “situation” has deteriorated to the point that protesters dressed to protect themselves from LE over-reactions became commonly described as “armed” - because of helmets and makeshift ‘shields’ to protect against clubbings, and gas masks to protect against tear gas....

Even the most vanilla forms of self-protection have been turned against those trying to stay out of the hospital...or the morgue.... ‘Media’ refusal to distinguish between different groups can only be considered deliberate at this point...kinda like interpreting a motorist locking their vehicle as “proof of nefarious intent”....

.....and the Dems wanna insist that they don't exist, it's all an illusion, a made up invention by the other side to hurt their cause, the showcasing of the BLM/Black Power political movement and the myth of the peaceful protestors just exercising their Constitution right to free speech! uh huh, uh huh.

Wow - sounds like you’ve got your mind made up...first-hand personal experience? Or just what you “hear”?

What about alla the revolutionary protestors in Portland with their shields with the Black Power and Antifa symbols, what's that all about???

What about them? What “revolutionaries”? What “symbols”? Seriously: I have NO idea what you’re talking about...but it sounds like *someone’s* agenda is being served

As i recall, the brownshirts were Hitler’s personal “army” that would go out and raise havoc at Hitler’s request. The brownshirts are more like trump’s boogaloo bois.

Treevly’s got his history from bad sources, apparently: the Brownshirts, the Sturm Abteilung (SA), (my German is rusty, but I believe they were the original “stormtroopers”) were universally described as Nazi street fighters: it was they who attacked and beat Jews In the streets, broke Jewish shop windows, burned Jewish businesses, and attacked socialists and trade-unionists whenever they gathered in public. They were the forces responsible for carrying out theinfamous “Kristallnacht” carnage. Once they had outlived their usefulness, they were done away with - their commander, Ernst Rohm, having been killed on Hitler’s orders, according to most reports.

He kinda sounds like he wants it to have been a different story altogether; I guess some folks are just hooked on making things ‘more exciting’ by making up bullshit.

 

[Treevly]

A different perspective: the “black bloc” were always troublemakers, prone to destruction, and unwelcome by the run of protesters at any event they manifested themselves in. It was always unclear to me whether they were genuinely politically committed to anything beyond making trouble...but they were and still are quite distinct from those protesters who were and are willing to oppose violent attacks on the peaceful.

It’s more complicated these days, because it was found simple and easy to conflate black-bloc actions with purely defensive actions in certain corners of the ‘media’; to the point that it no longer really matters if troublemakers are even remotely associated with any ‘antifa’ activities: reporting on events since the murder of Floyd have made no effort to distinguish between anti-protest “accelerationists” and legitimate protesters, with even the three-percenter who lit the City Hall fire in Nashville being breezily dubbed ‘antifa’ for no discernible reason...other than it fit someone’s narrative to do so.

The “situation” has deteriorated to the point that protesters dressed to protect themselves from LE over-reactions became commonly described as “armed” - because of helmets and makeshift ‘shields’ to protect against clubbings, and gas masks to protect against tear gas....

Even the most vanilla forms of self-protection have been turned against those trying to stay out of the hospital...or the morgue.... ‘Media’ refusal to distinguish between different groups can only be considered deliberate at this point...kinda like interpreting a motorist locking their vehicle as “proof of nefarious intent”....


Wow - sounds like you’ve got your mind made up...first-hand personal experience? Or just what you “hear”?


What about them? What “revolutionaries”? What “symbols”? Seriously: I have NO idea what you’re talking about...but it sounds like *someone’s* agenda is being served

Treevly’s got his history from bad sources, apparently: the Brownshirts, the Sturm Abteilung (SA), (my German is rusty, but I believe they were the original “stormtroopers”) were universally described as Nazi street fighters: it was they who attacked and beat Jews In the streets, broke Jewish shop windows, burned Jewish businesses, and attacked socialists and trade-unionists whenever they gathered in public. They were the forces responsible for carrying out theinfamous “Kristallnacht” carnage. Once they had outlived their usefulness, they were done away with - their commander, Ernst Rohm, having been killed on Hitler’s orders, according to most reports.

He kinda sounds like he wants it to have been a different story altogether; I guess some folks are just hooked on making things ‘more exciting’ by making up bullshit.

Try reading the second sentence of the post you are critiquing.