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Across International
- Thread starter Green Dot Labs
- Start date
HighStateToke
Member
Yeah? Thats what I was thinking, in order to assure maximum heat transfer to slabs. Although..wouldn't it also be desirable to have a material which has the ability to hold a constant and accurate temperature to avoid fluctuations from opening the door? Some food for thought..would love to hear some other perspectives!
Depends on how long you hold the door open.
Anything that holds heat well, takes longer to heat up, and to change from one temperature, to another.
The object is to transfer heat to the material faster using conduction rather than radiant transfer, in a vacuum where there is no convection. The BTU's needs to be present in the first place, and readily transfer to the product in the second.
UNREGISTRD
Active member
Too funny...Don't see how anyone can say their customer service is great...it's horrible and they're a bunch of smart ass! First when I ordered, I asked if it was gonna come with the new 3 buttons low proportional gain controller and they said yes. It arrived with 4 buttons, no biggie. i'll just adjust and calibrate right? Wrong! After days of calibration and their customer service tells me to A.T over and over (love the part when they told me to A.T from 120 to 121..fking one degree!!!) Also, I'm adjusting PK according to their equations every A.T (the manual that was sent with the oven had a bunch of spelling errors and mistakes..basically unreadable and if you were to calibrate with that manual, you'd be effed!) So I asked them for a new manual, and they sent me an online copy. Anyways, after numerous A.T and calibration of PK. I finally got to speak to their head engineer who told me that my problem is either 1:bad controller (they sent a new 3 buttons to replace, however with no instructions on how to operate and the new controller has resins oil of some sort all over the front and it looks like its been through some wear and tears around the corners. 2: my room ambient temp of 45 degrees (basically was laughed at by their customer support after asking if my room ambient temp has to do anything with temp fluctuation the first few days i got it, now their HEAD ENGINEER is telling me differently?)
Had anyone returned these oven? Really had it with their BS.
Had anyone returned these oven? Really had it with their BS.
They come from the same factory in china, lol.
rb extractors
Member
are you talking about hydrion or AI? Because if it is AI, I can say that I have never had an experience like that and I deal with them every week several times.
Given that you have exactly one post, I wonder if you are simply trolling?
rb extractors
Member
Having tried both ovens, I can say that Hydrion is not in the same ball park as AI. Their controller is less accurate or adjustable, suffers from larger temps swings, build quality was less than stellar, some design flaws with the door handle, their customer service is based out of china and there are often communication breakdowns, etc. I do like their shelves, but that is it.
How do you think they are overpriced? For what they do, they are a great value. Sure we'd all love yamato's, but they are triple the price at least.
And no, AI is not new to the game. In fact, they are working on quite a few things specific to our industry. The only other oven company I know of that is doing this is Cascade, and those too are spendy
rb extractors
Member
no, they don't.
Right on.. Thanks Im glad someone whos tried both can finally weigh in on this... From what ive heard recently there were a lot of issues with AIs temp variances, then I also read someones Opinion about the scientific lab units being better value. Totally not the case obviously.
I have heard about the great new things they have been working on however, so Im glad that they are also making good quality ovens too!
rb extractors
Member
No, I think what it was is that the instructions weren't the best and so people were programming it wrong. They basically programmed those variables into the new controller and maybe made some other changes. I know the guy a few threads up was complaining about AI, but what company will send you out a new controller even if your old one is working?
I'm far from an oven expert, and only have experience with a Napco which I redesigned and rebuilt myself, the Across International that Joe ran, and the Cascade TEK that we are currently helping develop, but offer the following tongue in cheek thoughts.......
With the convenience of a vacuum oven, comes some complications, one of them being temperature control, because there is no convection in a vacuum.
Most vacuum ovens have one or more heaters attached to the outside of the oven liner (vacuum can), and rely on conduction to transfer the temperature to the sides of the oven non heated. The thermocouple is mounted an average distance from the heating element, so that the furnace walls at the site of the element can get substaintaly hotter than where the thermocouple is mounted, and because of size can carry enough hysteresis as to make close temperature control a fairy tale.
Since there is only radiant and conduction heat transfer, the oven has to optimize those two methods at the product shelves, and sense temperatures at those locations, to closely control temperature at those locations.
I talked to Maxwell at Across International, and said the same things that I said to Cascade TEK when they sought us out. Like most marketing guys, he was positive and a joy to talk to.
He said that the chief engineer was busy at the moment, but committed to calling me back within a few minutes, but he never did, nor did Maxwell follow through.
Seemingly everyone is busy and the chief engineer feels knowledgeable enough to not not need any of my insights badly enough to invest the time talking to me.
Taking a step back from the commercial market, I also question why anyone would spend the money for an oven, when they can so easily and so much more less expensively make themselves a simple heated vacuum chamber.
While some of our research with Cascade TEK involves simple mechanics, the parts justifying them over the less expensive ovens are in a large part the controls that permit measuring and precise control of both the heat and vacuum parameters.
Stuff that would allow a commercial operator to use less trained workers, whom set dials and push buttons, rather than closely monitor and control by eye and artisan techniques.
Not making that much oil myself, I enjoy doing it the old fashion artisan way, by eyballing and tweaking, but if I was in business, I would want operators loading and unloading product from the oven, but available for other duties while the oven does its thang.
Since it is hard to hire trained operators off the street, not having to have a master chemist for good results, is a financial plus. The down and up side is that automated product will never match the precise artisan results, so there is affordable product for the less discriminating and lucratively priced artisan grand cru oils and waxes for the connoisseur.
With the convenience of a vacuum oven, comes some complications, one of them being temperature control, because there is no convection in a vacuum.
Most vacuum ovens have one or more heaters attached to the outside of the oven liner (vacuum can), and rely on conduction to transfer the temperature to the sides of the oven non heated. The thermocouple is mounted an average distance from the heating element, so that the furnace walls at the site of the element can get substaintaly hotter than where the thermocouple is mounted, and because of size can carry enough hysteresis as to make close temperature control a fairy tale.
Since there is only radiant and conduction heat transfer, the oven has to optimize those two methods at the product shelves, and sense temperatures at those locations, to closely control temperature at those locations.
I talked to Maxwell at Across International, and said the same things that I said to Cascade TEK when they sought us out. Like most marketing guys, he was positive and a joy to talk to.
He said that the chief engineer was busy at the moment, but committed to calling me back within a few minutes, but he never did, nor did Maxwell follow through.
Seemingly everyone is busy and the chief engineer feels knowledgeable enough to not not need any of my insights badly enough to invest the time talking to me.
Taking a step back from the commercial market, I also question why anyone would spend the money for an oven, when they can so easily and so much more less expensively make themselves a simple heated vacuum chamber.
While some of our research with Cascade TEK involves simple mechanics, the parts justifying them over the less expensive ovens are in a large part the controls that permit measuring and precise control of both the heat and vacuum parameters.
Stuff that would allow a commercial operator to use less trained workers, whom set dials and push buttons, rather than closely monitor and control by eye and artisan techniques.
Not making that much oil myself, I enjoy doing it the old fashion artisan way, by eyballing and tweaking, but if I was in business, I would want operators loading and unloading product from the oven, but available for other duties while the oven does its thang.
Since it is hard to hire trained operators off the street, not having to have a master chemist for good results, is a financial plus. The down and up side is that automated product will never match the precise artisan results, so there is affordable product for the less discriminating and lucratively priced artisan grand cru oils and waxes for the connoisseur.
rb extractors
Member
some great thoughts GW!
I've been using this oven for a few months and it's been cranking out shatter consistently. Now, as of the past week or so, whole slabs have been turning to wax. It looks like they are getting "burned" or there are "hot spots" sort of. But then some are just 100% turning into wax... This never used to happen. I want to take a picture but I know my cellphone pics will get clowned 
.
Frozen butane, frozen material.
108 degrees F . the slab is on parchment on top of a silicone mat. we use the standard metal racks.
Any idea why?
. Frozen butane, frozen material.
108 degrees F . the slab is on parchment on top of a silicone mat. we use the standard metal racks.
Any idea why?
rb extractors
Member
seriously a6. I saw an oven over at cascade that is marketed towards us. not sure if it is any good, but maybe someone can chime in. I'll be trying the Yamato dp-43c to see if the extra money is worth it.
Could something be off other than the oven? Check different areas of the oven with thermometers. I have a bunch (12) so I can see if there are variations from level to level and side to side super quick.
If the temp is reasonably accurate, then there is something else off. possibly water in your system. It'll take a lot more than a 10 degree difference to wax up your oil.
Could something be off other than the oven? Check different areas of the oven with thermometers. I have a bunch (12) so I can see if there are variations from level to level and side to side super quick.
If the temp is reasonably accurate, then there is something else off. possibly water in your system. It'll take a lot more than a 10 degree difference to wax up your oil.
Your ambient temps might be the culprit here.I've been using this oven for a few months and it's been cranking out shatter consistently. Now, as of the past week or so, whole slabs have been turning to wax. It looks like they are getting "burned" or there are "hot spots" sort of. But then some are just 100% turning into wax... This never used to happen. I want to take a picture but I know my cellphone pics will get clowned
Frozen butane, frozen material.
108 degrees F . the slab is on parchment on top of a silicone mat. we use the standard metal racks.
Any idea why?
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