Absolute Amber from Banana Silver Ladyboys

[Waterbelly]

So what i believe youre saying is that the thicker pools might have appeared darker because of the light refraction? It makes sense, but unfortunately a side by side comparison between the dabs showed a significant color difference. It is not the first time i have seen evidence of heat darkening the product, nor the first time i have heard of it happening.

 

[Gray Wolf]

Maybe I should ask how much heat was involved?

 

[meduser180056]

This thread is really breaking it down. Jump is getting results that are similiar if not identical to the person I know thats been making amber glass for years and never would divulge his secrets.

I've gone pretty far down this path doing butane extractions and then secondary clean ups on it with ethanol etc...

I've had plenty of access to amber glass since I know the guy and would get it at wholesale prices from him. The big advantage IMO is that he can turn practically any type of trim into an identical amber glass product everytime. No difference from one batch to the next. The other advantage is that it's more marketable because it's a unique consistent product that most people don't have yet.

However, personally after smoking/vaporizing str8 amber glass for months on end I can say hands down I prefer just normal well made BHO that's been purged properly preferable in a vacuum setup. The main reason being the amber glass seems to be harsher on the throat and the taste is always uniform bland. Nothing like the flavor you get from a well done butane extraction. I think the secondary processes kill the flavor.

So ya Hamma it all tastes pretty much the same with the amber, but as far as marketability is concerned your gonna get more per gram when you sell it and it's gonna sell easier because it's a product not many people out there have.

I'd love to see the person I know that makes this put out of business or at least get some major competition because quite frankly he's not that nice of a person and never would share anything with the very people that would help him get his stuff into clubs. I worked hard for awhile to duplicate his product so I could simply supplant his product with my own at a cheaper price, but eventually gave up because I didn't want a lab setup in my house and I wasn't even into smoking the stuff.

Guy is probably the most paranoid person I have ever met and has never had a med card. He supposedly perfected his method in the late 80s and I believe it was taught to him or the basics of it were taught to him by old school 70s hippie oil heads.

 

[Waterbelly]

I believe Jump stated somewhere (i could be wrong) that 175F is optimal temperatures for purging, i stay in between 170-180, and try my hardest to not go above 175.

 

[Gray Wolf]

I believe Jump stated somewhere (i could be wrong) that 175F is optimal temperatures for purging, i stay in between 170-180, and try my hardest to not go above 175.

Then yes it will darken some, as some of it decarboxylates.

 

[hammalamma]

This thread is really breaking it down. Jump is getting results that are similiar if not identical to the person I know thats been making amber glass for years and never would divulge his secrets.

I've gone pretty far down this path doing butane extractions and then secondary clean ups on it with ethanol etc...

I've had plenty of access to amber glass since I know the guy and would get it at wholesale prices from him. The big advantage IMO is that he can turn practically any type of trim into an identical amber glass product everytime. No difference from one batch to the next. The other advantage is that it's more marketable because it's a unique consistent product that most people don't have yet.

However, personally after smoking/vaporizing str8 amber glass for months on end I can say hands down I prefer just normal well made BHO that's been purged properly preferable in a vacuum setup. The main reason being the amber glass seems to be harsher on the throat and the taste is always uniform bland. Nothing like the flavor you get from a well done butane extraction. I think the secondary processes kill the flavor.

So ya Hamma it all tastes pretty much the same with the amber, but as far as marketability is concerned your gonna get more per gram when you sell it and it's gonna sell easier because it's a product not many people out there have.

I'd love to see the person I know that makes this put out of business or at least get some major competition because quite frankly he's not that nice of a person and never would share anything with the very people that would help him get his stuff into clubs. I worked hard for awhile to duplicate his product so I could simply supplant his product with my own at a cheaper price, but eventually gave up because I didn't want a lab setup in my house and I wasn't even into smoking the stuff.

Guy is probably the most paranoid person I have ever met and has never had a med card. He supposedly perfected his method in the late 80s and I believe it was taught to him or the basics of it were taught to him by old school 70s hippie oil heads.

Yeah, there must be a different way to achieve aa. I have seen the stuff you speak of and it is incredibly light in color as well, even in big thick pieces

 

[meduser180056]

Ya it's definetly the best amber I've ever seen. Like I said he has his method down pat. The pieces come in 3-4 gram chunks usually 3.5g if that's any help it all. The dispensaries then break it down into grams. So I'm assuming the largest batches he can do proper purges with are around 3-4 grams. The chunks are never any bigger or any smaller always very uniform.

 

[Gray Wolf]

Some strains are lighter than others and BHO made from fresh frozen is lighter than cured material. Decarboxylation darkens it.

Here is a picture of a fresh frozen extraction that has also been decarboxylated

 

[jump117]

I didn't want a lab setup in my house

I agree. That’s why my process uses only household utensils, and no special device.

 

[meduser180056]

I'll just say he's made his amber glass out of fan leaves and stems before he just gets a lower percentage/yield return. I know he uses dry trim in his process tho. I've managed to get some info out of him over the years not much tho ha.

Yes he does have a full on lab setup I know that much and he also reclaims his butane and I'm fairly positive his butane process is a closed tube setup.

 

[jump117]

BHO made from fresh frozen is lighter than cured material.

I had both light yellow amber glass and dark amber glass from the same Mazar-i-Sharif.
Imo it depends on its oxygen-temperature history from flowering to extraction.
That person with 3g light yellow ambers probably works with only fresh?

identical amber glass product everytime. No difference from one batch to the next

And identical color?

Decarboxylation darkens it.

Decarboxylation changes consistency together with color.
But we may observe dark and very dark ambers with brittle glass consistency.
I think oxidation of anything darkens resin before the decarboxylation.
Cannabinoids themselves or their companions in the resin determine the color?

 

[Waterbelly]

I am fairly sure if you ran fresh frozen bud it would come out yellow- clear nearly every time. But my question is how can i purge the entire batch without using ethanol, and without using the temperatures that will in turn darken the end product. It is obvious we can fully purge a sample using lower heat, so why arent we using low heat always?

 

[hammalamma]

I am fairly sure if you ran fresh frozen bud it would come out yellow- clear nearly every time. But my question is how can i purge the entire batch without using ethanol, and without using the temperatures that will in turn darken the end product. It is obvious we can fully purge a sample using lower heat, so why arent we using low heat always?

Vacuum maybe?

 

[jump117]

I believe Jump stated somewhere (i could be wrong) that 175F is optimal temperatures for purging, i stay in between 170-180, and try my hardest to not go above 175.

Here, the evaporation of ethanol on a steam bath,
as long as the ethanol evaporates, its temperature does not exceed the boiling point.
After its evaporation, the melt temperature rises almost to the temperature of steam,
but only for a moment.

how can i purge the entire batch without using ethanol, and without using the temperatures ?

For a complete removal of the solvent resin should be melted in order to reduce its viscosity.
Thick or hard resin prevents the formation and movement of bubbles of solvent.

 

[Gray Wolf]

I had both light yellow amber glass and dark amber glass from the same Mazar-i-Sharif. Imo it depends on its oxygen-temperature history from flowering to extraction.

Decarboxylation changes consistency together with color. But we may observe dark and very dark ambers with brittle glass consistency. I think oxidation of anything darkens resin before the decarboxylation. Cannabinoids themselves or their companions in the resin determine the color?

Good points and nice optical pyrometer bro!

There seems to be a wide range of colors in extractions and simple oxidation darkens other compounds.

The resin that I extracted from cured material using butane in a closed system, was still dark amber, using no heat and purged under ~100 micron vacuum.

Vacuum maybe?

Trace solvents escape more slowly from a solid resin than they do from a liquid, so as Jump notes, being above the melting point of the three main cannabinoids, is going to speed up the process.

Because of molecular motion above absolute zero, given enough time at ambient temperatures, volatile organic compound molecules will migrate slowly to the surface and escape, but not very fast. If you have time on your hands, that isn't an issue, but most of us desire a faster process

Pulling a hard vacuum on the resin will make the residual solvent escape more rapidly at any temperature, allowing the use of lower temperature for a given same time span.

For that purpose, I use an AC vacuum pump, that I picked up off of E-Bay for $195. It isn't suitable for solvent duties that dilute its crankcase, but perfect for a hard final vacuum purge after the visible solvent is gone and way easier on my worn out thumb joints than a hand pump.

It has a visible oil level port, that also allows you to monitor the condition of the oil, and change it if it starts to change color or develop a emulsification layer.

 

[Waterbelly]

To have two of the most active and progressive minds on these forums help answer my questions is truly a great experience, thank you!

I completely understand that in order for the solvent to fully purge out without a vacuum you must keep the viscosity of the oil liquid enough for it to escape, but as GW states im also aware that if you have enough time and ambient heat, the solvent will rise and escape. So heres another question:

Will a plate with a thin layer of oil from an initial butane extraction set at temperatures ranging from 120-130, given enough time, the solvent WILL escape out, without the use of a torch or some other ambient top heat?

In my experience with this "low and slow" method, certain spots on the plate will actually "trap" the butane, in the form of streaks, or very, very tiny bubbles, (mostly streaks) but will those spots "eventually" migrate up and out of the top of the oil, given enough time and patience?

You should note that i do not own vacuum/

 

[Gray Wolf]

So heres another question:

Will a plate with a thin layer of oil from an initial butane extraction set at temperatures ranging from 120-130, given enough time, the solvent WILL escape out, without the use of a torch or some other ambient top heat?

In my experience with this "low and slow" method, certain spots on the plate will actually "trap" the butane, in the form of streaks, or very, very tiny bubbles, (mostly streaks) but will those spots "eventually" migrate up and out of the top of the oil, given enough time and patience?

You should note that i do not own vacuum/

Yes, with enough time.

At 120-130F I would expect them to within our lifetime, but haven't a clue how long it would take. I normally use 180F and/or a vacuum.

Stirring it around would speed it up and the thinner the film, the faster it will outgas.

Hand vaccum pumps for brakes are relatively inexpensive and easy to acquire from auto supply stores and places like Harbor Freight.

 

[Waterbelly]

Thank you! Yes, i have had many opportunities to get a vacuum pump, but the thought of properly purging a sample of oil with nothing but low heat requires alot of skill, and i would love to be able to do that. I'll be purchasing a aspirator soon to experiment with, because of their relatively low cost.

 

[KonradZuse]

I just wanted to say according to the Tamisium dude www.tamisiumextractors.com/faq

He says that Butane's boiling point is something low like 30F, and should fully evap from an oil @ 80F(room temp he says).. Now oils all can range in thickness and consistancy and all, so it might be smarter to go higher, but not necessary.


Also @ Gray Wolf,

I was reading up on boiling points and such of actives, and I was reading Terpenes are as low as 70C(156F) and I know a lot of people LOOOVE their terpenes and taste..

So what do you have to say about that since you go higher?

I personally use boiling water, and don't run enough material for the butane to stay... My purges happen in a few mins, but I allow around 30 mins to make sure everything is out.

 

[Gray Wolf]

I just wanted to say according to the Tamisium dude www.tamisiumextractors.com/faq

He says that Butane's boiling point is something low like 30F, and should fully evap from an oil @ 80F(room temp he says).. Now oils all can range in thickness and consistancy and all, so it might be smarter to go higher, but not necessary.


Also @ Gray Wolf,

I was reading up on boiling points and such of actives, and I was reading Terpenes are as low as 70C(156F) and I know a lot of people LOOOVE their terpenes and taste..

So what do you have to say about that since you go higher?

I personally use boiling water, and don't run enough material for the butane to stay... My purges happen in a few mins, but I allow around 30 mins to make sure everything is out.

A simple typo correction, Butane has more like a 30C, instead of Fahrenheit boiling point, but it definitely will boil off at 80F and atmospheric pressure.

Residual butane will evaporate away at 80F, or likewise 50F, as a function of time, temperature, and atmospheric pressure. Change any one number in the formula and the results change.

If you are going for maximum retained THCA for head effect, it is best to use low temperatures and drop the atmospheric pressure using vacuum, to minimize decarboxylation.

If you are going for a decarboxylated oil for oral or sublingual application, getting rid of residual solvent is less of an issue, than the level of decarboxylation, because the solvent is long gone before serious decarboxylation temperatures are reached.

For maintaining turpenoid flavors, low temperature is better, as it really doesn't matter as much that you are close to the turpenoids boiling point, as much as that many are aromatic turpenoids, which shuck off molecules at even ambient temperatures, which besides the circular molecular "benzene ring", is why they are regarded as aromatic.

Many of the medicinal properties ascribed to cannabis, may in fact be a function of these entourage turpenoids, so that I'm thinking that they shouldn't be shucked off casually.

For cutting to the chase with cannabinoids, not sure what leaves at 70C/158F, but I do understand that ß-caryophyllene boils at ~119C / 246.2F. The good news is that it is easy to stay below the boiling point of the rest of the major turpenoids when decarboxylating at ~250F. I say that while noting that some are lost anyway at time and temperature, due to their aromatic properties.

Besides the difference in head effect, decarboxylated material usually has less retained turpenoids, and a blander taste.